Paul J. Svetlik Loc: Colorado

I am afraid this discussion has got out of track - mentioning gun control and massacres in urban environment.
The original request was:
How to stay safe taking photographs in the wildernes or State Parks.

Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan

I am afraid you are right, Andy.

Mike

SheilaG Loc: Central Arkansas

Gotta love that! My license plates 1911GAL!

But, I like the idea of a photo club or pal to go with, enjoy your time out with a friend.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Of course the conversation is naturally going to drift to gun control, mass shootings and criminality when a normal older gentlemen feels vulnerable to robbery or personal injury whiles simply engaging in normal activity in a public space. Yes, the statistics indicate a decrease in violent crime but in some urban environments that's like saying "let's
knock off 25 volts from the electric chair"- it still lethal! There is nothing wrong with statistics, I and many others just don't want to become one so the subject of prevention, protection and survival enters the conversation.

Bipod

You provided a "story" he should tell to the police.
But the incident has not yet occured.

What would you call a prefabricated story?

sv3noKin51E

No one should advocate shooting anyone else, unless it's under the heading of hypothetical ' ie, if you'd defend yourself with deadly force' because you're vulnerable qualifier. Shooting someone for ripping off a camera is not justifiable use of deadly force, unless the thug is holding a knife or gun on you. The firearm you never have to use in self-defense is the best firearm. Pepper spray makes some thugs even more uncontrollable, and that can be deadly. Some cann shrug off a taser hit. When people have never owned or used firearms, they see no need for them so call it fear/hate-mongering. Many who haven't served in LE or our military simply have no real frame of reference. Dear old dad wasn't shot up in WWII, yet saw plenty of action as have so many other veterans since. He owned firearms and hunted, and was an ace target shot (and photographer) until he passed away. When Citizens were no longer equally vested in service to our country, it's sad that truth is mistaken or labeled as fear or hate mongering.

No fear mongering, but the vulnerable part means much more. North Korea is temporarily no longer testing ICBMs but don't forget those other countries that sit offshore in their vessels. A very limited range missile launched over any portions of the US would take down most if not all of the north American grid; not a secret. EMP would send us back more than 100 years and it would take many years before any power would reach you again. Laws would little meaning. Only military units in country, which are on active duty could defend the states. There aren't enough to provide protection to any one. No need for nuclear war with EMP. Your DSLR will never work again when that happens so lay in a supply of actual books. No electricity means non-canned or preserved food last a couple of days. With no means to hunt or to defend your home, food and loved ones, in urban areas your food belongs to which former neighbor takes it first. Who are you gonna call? Many atheists may learn that prayer is better than no hope. We'll all be fortunate to last the number of days your food and potable water lasts. At least no one would worry about their forums posts being monitored and the agencies would be on permanent holiday. The real truth is seldom cozy.

Food for thought, today after 18 years, few people realize or care how unaccountable and broken our government, justice system and national security apparatus has become. Abuses of FISA and monitoring of all US communications are rampant. Can't shut that door again. Current rules that pre-date Trump are that any special agent can access or request all but TS/ATS-levels of national security data/metadata. There are only about 14-15K FBI SAs and 35-40K total FBI personnel so the odds are 'they' aren't really bent on monitoring your parking tickets to keep you from owning a legitimate firearm. Doesn't mean they can't but the system is still drowning in so much metadata from all over the planet they've given up on quantifying it; they just keep stashing and recording, and adding onto the machine. If one is really bad, not that they have caught one yet, anything can be accessed in near real-time. NSA never disclosed how many of them do what and only they know and CIA has never regained what they used/abused when Congress lit into them up in the 70s; they have the same request authority to access anything FBI routinely can get from NSA, or the 14-eye data sharing friends. The surveillance system we've allowed and will be paying for is roughly equal to the same country that makes many lenses and DSLRs (not Russia). What should concern everyone is that for several years, without our people being aware, a good chunk of our internet traffic including secure data, was diverted to China before being sent back to the US in a flash. No outcry. Good thing no one has anything to hide, because it's all over there now. All those cheap IOT widgets do the same thing Pre-crime and Minority report is no longer science fiction. Facial recognition on cell phones means the government no longer needs to scan your retinas from the CCTV. You willingly allow all of that for the convenience of your modern cellphone. AI is what no one in government currently talks about and the rabbit hole is much deeper; how many non-governmental contractors can monitor your information much less home? It used to be over a million, but they no longer know for certain. John isn't alone feeling vulnerable in more ways than can be counted.

Other nations don't have civilized forums, and their citizens are required to serve the country, and have a weapon in their home in the event of national emergency. They have problems but they know how to defend themselves. The information takes time and usually isn't found on social or 'media' outlets. Research if you care/dare, from all of the serious sources. It takes time time to grasp what many vets have known for many years, with no mongering. What a thread, best wishes for all.

Bipod

Two things puzzle me:

1. Why would any adult male think that srtangers in a park want to kill him?
Rob? Sure. But kill? Why? Motiveless crimes do occur, but they are quite rare.

2. How did we get from this:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

to this:

people wanting to carry a concealed pistol in a park order to shoot "dirtbags" under the pretext
of self-defense?

And clearly, it is a pretext: a robbery attempt does not justify a homicide.

There is another term for these "dirtbags": fellow Americans. Human beings.

Grumpy Loc: Hampshire, UK

Two things. Make sure you have a camera with a fully articulating screen, I can get down there but cannot guarantee to get back up again, so if I can view a screen from above, I don't have to kneel, or lie on the ground for those interesting low angle shots. Secondly, take a sturdy, long stick with you, it is amazing how easy it is to correct your balance by digging it in to the ground, it may also double as a weapon if needed. Opportunist robbers tend to be cowards and will probably flee at the first sign of resistance.

CCChuckles Loc: Michigan

I've read most of the Postings here and find them most interesting and somewhat informative, I especially like and Appreciate "Architical1776" because he tells it like it is....

To the OP, I am also an older fellow and like "1776" says," be in the Yellow condition" when in questionable areas.
https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2018/3/21/self-defense-tips-living-in-condition-yellow/


To "1776" what condition were you in when accosted in Phoenix ?


BTW-FWIW...I live near Detroit (12 miles) and visit there frequently, DO NOT CARRY...but pay close attention to the areas I frequent, Eastern Market, New Center, DIA, Joe Lewis, Martius Park and many others...

Also FWIW I am a Proficent Handgun, Rifle, Shotgun user...

DMZX

I retired 15 years ago and have spent much of my time in the forest hiking and reflecting. I have added photography into that recently which has enriched that activity even more.

I invested in a dog to be my companion 8 years ago, and he has been most loyal and attentive.

Any fears or anxieties about solitary travel in wild areas are resolved with him at my side:

nimbushopper Loc: Tampa, FL

RickTaylor

According to your theory anyone should just give up their possessions to another person that wants to take them. I fail to see how you can refer to a dirtbag like this a human being? They are a theif pure and simple. What about the victims unalienable rights?. Are his less important than the theif? Your theory is full of holes which is a typical liberal response. I am willing to bet you have never worked a day in your life for anything, instead relying on government handouts or a way to work the system for your benefit. A discussion with you is like arguing with a drunk, you just don’t get it and never will.

nimbushopper Loc: Tampa, FL

Well said Rick! He obviously has never been the victim of a felon, nor has anyone close to him. As soon as that happens his attitude will do a 180!

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

Let me preface my comments by saying, I have been a victim, I have had a close relative shot and I think Bipod is one of the worst trolls on this site.

But any one who thinks they are at increased risk of being murdered in a national park and concludes that a good idea is being armed with weapons meant only for use on fellow humans while in a park intended for the pleasurable use of all including children, has got something seriously wrong with them and should seek immediate help. That kind of bent thinking is shared by perpetrators of mass killings.

berchman Loc: South Central PA

That's a beautiful Shepherd. How do you know for sure that he would defend you if you were held up? Do you know this because it already happened or is it just that you believe he would?