Big Yankee Fan

I just thought of this while going through my late Dad's stuff awhile back. My Dad was an excellent photographer starting while he was in high school when he and my Grandfather built a dark room in the basement of their house in Brooklyn. This would have been about 1939-1940. I recall that one of the camera's he used most to take pix of my sister and I when we were little (early '60's) was a Leica rangefinder camera. Don't recall the name. I think he sold it. Anyway I recall a story about Germany supplying the USA with Leica's as war reparations after WWII, which is how he was able to afford it. Thinking about it now, how could that be? Anyone ever heard of this before? Just curious...

patman1 Loc: Pataskala, Ohio

No, i have been a Leica user and that story has never passed my way. I have been in Leica many Leica clubs and im sure i would have heard something about it.

Frayud Loc: Bethesda,MD

Never heard of war reparations to the US (and I am an 87 yr old news junkie). To the contrary, the US helped rebuild war ravaged Europe via the Marshal Plan in the immediate post war era.
What you may be alluding to is a relatively recent revelation that the Leitz organization, parent of all things Leica, in the '30's surreptitiously moved many of their Jewish personnel out of Germany offering them jobs in their far flung offices in the free world. Thus saving their lives.

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

Nope. I've never heard that particular story either.

But Google the story of the Kodak Ektra, which was an originally top secret project, with some military funding to develop a domestic alternative in case the supply of Leicas to the US military was cut off by war. Yes, a 35mm camera was considered a vital instrument of war.

The US "Leica Alternative" had a number of weak areas, but it was a noble effort. It reached civilian production, but was too expensive for most. Eventually it was discontinued. In the early Cold War era, the battle between the largely Western Occupation zone Leitz facilities and the largely Eastern Occupation zone Zeiss factories became another technical war, with stolen design espionage, equipment raids, and other aspects right out of an Ian Fleming thriller.

Andy

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

That's been in the news a couple of places recently. One of the untold stories of the prewar attempts to save many families.

Andy

genefowler11

I believe the creator of Lica smuggled Jews out of the country. He would hire them then transfer them to a facility in the USA I believe. The US Military had to scramble to find lens manufacturers that could supply @ Lica quality. German lenses were no longer available to us. If I am misinformed please straighten me out.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

I never heard about that war reparations story, but I guess anything is possible

On a related note, I was surprised to learn that at the start of WW II, the U. S. government was appealing to citizens to turn in their optical glass - lenses from cameras, binoculars, telescopes.

Photocraig

I never heard of the reparations issue, but I have learned about the ex-pat stationing of the Jewish Leitz employees, and it warmed my heart. I never had the budget and the will at the same time to buy a Leica, but today, I wish I had.

C

repleo Loc: Boston

I think you are confusing Leica with Zeiss. From Wikipedia article on Carl Zeiss AG:

"At the end of the war, Jena was occupied by the US Army. When Jena and Dresden were incorporated into the Soviet occupation zone, later East Germany, some parts of Zeiss Jena were relocated by the US army to the Contessa manufacturing facility in Stuttgart, West Germany, while the remainder of Zeiss Jena was reestablished by the (Eastern) German Democratic Republic as Kombinat VEB Zeiss Jena.[9] As part of the World War II reparations, the Soviet army took most of the existing Zeiss factories and tooling back to the Soviet Union as the Kiev camera works."

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

I do not believe the USA has ever taken reparations.
We usually defeat an enemy then rebuild their economy at even the peril of our own. Think of "The Mouse That Roared".
Here is an interesting item regarding Leitz.
"By mid 1945, only a few months after the occupation, Leitz was working at about 10% of prewar capacity. It received instrument repair contracts from the US Army to keep it afloat. About 150 Leica IIIc cameras a week were being made, mostly assembled from spare parts. The major customer was US Army Post Exchanges. That’s not to suggest that the typical soldier was a Leicaphile. A Leica could be obtained in Germany for the equivalent of $20 in US cigarettes and would sell in New York for $600."
http://www.combatcamera.be/equipment/2416-2/
Perhaps this was how the camera was obtained.

Largobob

I do know that during WW2, "some" soldiers pocketed souvenirs of war. This included lenses, cameras, guns, bayonets/swords, flags, artwork, etc. I started with a Speed Graphic having a pre-war Carl Zeiss lens that had been liberated from the factory. In addition to their engineering and construction, German glass at the time was very good (contrasty images rather than soft) compared with non-German glass. I still maintain that the Carl Zeiss lens on my old Speed Graphic could resolve two adjacent eyelashes on a tick at 50 yards.

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

When American troops occupied Wetzlar in 1945, a citizen delegation, headed by Dr. Elsie Leitz persuaded the Americans that there would be no resistance. The town surrendered without a shot being fired. Still, many of the skilled former Leitz employees had moved to other areas and would not return to the plant.

German NCO using Leica

Leitz
It was fortunate that the Leitz factory was located in the American Zone and that its machinery had not been destroyed or dismantled. Zeiss plants in the Russian Zone (Jena) had been severely damaged and the Russians carted off what remained of the production equipment as war reparations.

Zeiss factory Jena 1945
Zeiss, as a German competitor to Leitz, effectively ceased to exist for several years until reorganized in Stuttgart. This gave Leica an
enormous postwar advantage. The Russians used the Zeiss machinery and tooling to produce the Kiev camera, a somewhat roughly constructed clone of the pre-WW2 Contax.

By mid 1945, only a few months after the occupation, Leitz was working at about 10% of prewar capacity. It received instrument repair contracts from the US Army to keep it afloat. About 150 Leica IIIc cameras a week were being made, mostly assembled from spare parts. The major customer was US Army Post Exchanges. That’s not to suggest that the typical soldier was a Leicaphile. A Leica could be obtained in Germany for the equivalent of $20 in US cigarettes and would sell in New York for $600.

During WW2 almost the entire output of Leitz/Wetzlar was taken by the German military services although a substantial number of civilian garb Leica IIIc cameras were made for foreign exchange purposes.

Bipod

The US never asked Germany to pay war reparations. That's what the Allies did in WW I,
and it created the conditions for WW II. President Wilson was against it at the time, but
the US wasn't formally a member of the Allies in WW I, just an "Associated Power", so
he couldn't stop the Draconian payments demanded by the UK and France.

After WW II the US created the Marshall Plan, named for Secretary of State and former
Supreme Allied Commander, Gen. George C. Marshall. The US helped to rebuild Germany
and the rest of the Western Europe. There has been peace in the region ever since--73 years
and counting.

Why does this matter? In 1942 alone, German U-boats sank 397 ships totaling over 3 million
tons off the US East Coast--some within sight of NYC or Boston. But today Germany is a
member of NATO and a close US ally. One can take a boat trip around Cape Hatteras without
worrying about being torpedoed by a U-boat.

The Marshall Plan trned out to be a very good investment in peace and security.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Actually Germany was required to pay reparations for WWII as well and still owes on that debt.
The USA never signed the Armistice, thus was never entitled to WWI reparations. That said the Allies owed tremendous debts to the USA and used the German payments to pay the USA their debts. The economic crash brought all that to an end so Germany could no longer pay and the Allies could no longer pay.
All still owe billions to the USA except I believe Finland who has paid all war and post war debts/reparations in full to both the USA and the Soviet Union.
This is a simple condensed summary of a more complex subject.

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

Just what do you mean by "at even the peril of our own"? Relying on history, give us an example of this. By the way, "The Mouse That Roared" was fiction, not fact.