Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
The electric car scams
Page <<first <prev 4 of 10 next> last>>
Nov 5, 2018 10:32:27   #
tomcat
 
wakeupnfly wrote:
My plug in hybrid uses electricity from natural gas fired power plant. Natural gas while far from perfectly clean is preferable to gasoline or diesel. Both of which emit other combustion products not present in natural gas. Also, admittedly, I do use some gasoline. Still, I get around 60 mpg on hybrid mode using both and around 50 mile of use in all electric mode. Not bad for a car that weighs in at almost 5,000 lbs. I have a charge capacity of about 17kw. Cost is approximately $2.35 for a full charge. That and a full 7 gallon fuel tank will take me about 400 miles. (I have yet to run both near depletion on a trip) Regarding the road use tax, I just paid the state of Michigan an extra $135.00 because I can plug in my car!
My plug in hybrid uses electricity from natural ga... (show quote)


You're still heating up the atmosphere and contributing to the global warming problem. I still think solar is the answer....

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 11:27:59   #
ed3 Loc: Belton, MO
 
Interesting discussion, however there is a a flaw as I am not aware of any internal combustion engine on the road with an 85% efficiency. Depending on diesel or gasoline they range from 20% to 45%.

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 11:34:25   #
Jimmy T Loc: Virginia
 
Ron, I too resent my tax dollars subsidizing the purchase and use of vehicles that I can't afford to own. JimmyT Sends
Rongnongno wrote:
Electric cars pollutes as much if not more than regular cars.
- To charge a car one must use the grid, meaning the energy used is off site in the power plant. This seems ore efficient if it wasn't for the loose regulations when it comes to CO2 emissions.
- Then you have the low efficiency of the batteries. While a modern combustion engine reaches 85% efficiency, the batteries keeps a low 20% of the total power applied. Since the electric system has also a loss that appears negligible of 10% the real efficiency of these cars is 18%. This is far from what already exist.
- Only areas that have fully renewable energy systems can sustain such an energy loss.
- Another obvious source of pollution is due to the chemicals used in batteries. This is rarely mentioned and when it is quickly dismissed. This includes manufacturing AND disposing of the batteries.
- These cars use just as much lubricants than regular cars so there is no 'free pass' here either.

Electric cars do not contribute to society.
- The reason is that by not purchasing gas the driver eschew the gas taxes.
- Tax intensives given by government add insult to injury. Not only the drivers do not pay taxes they receive a credit when purchasing one of these cars.
- In some areas electric cars get 'free charging parking spots'. I have already spotted a few of those in airports.
- Speaking of parking spots... These free charging spots were the closest to the airport access at the expense of handicapped parking. This is not due to the cars themselves but to the stupidity of politicians, as usual.

One technology that has been dismissed way too quickly by the car industry is the Hydrogen 'solution'. Engines and batteries using Hydrogen are more efficient. One is a combustion engine, same as gas but the exhaust is water, not CO2, sulfur and whatever else. The batteries also produce water when they are used. Note that hydrogen cars also pollute due to the lubricants. One advantage thought, catalytic converters that are a major source of pollution when produced and disposed of will not be used anymore. This helps reduce the power loss due to its use in normal cars.

The main advantage of Hydrogen is that it one of the most common element found on Earth and will not run out. By using dialysis water is broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen at will. This process is both chemical and electrical. The result is also pollution when one really thinks about it. Since there is much less loss in the process of producing Hydrogen than simply charging batteries the transfer of pollution is lessened. Once again renewable energy is the solution to this issue. I am not too familiar with the Hydrogen batteries manufacturing and disposal but I assume safely that this is a source of pollution similar to regular batteries.

When it comes to contributing to society, since the Hydrogen needs to be purchased all the negative issues raised when it comes to regular electric cars does not exist and the driver can be taxed at the 'pump'. Tax incentives to push this are needed at first, there is no question, but these should be faded out as the technology takes hold.
b Electric cars pollutes as much if not more than... (show quote)



Reply
 
 
Nov 5, 2018 11:42:09   #
arden1939
 
Efficiency is best parked in the driveway...

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:05:35   #
trainspotter Loc: Oregon
 
tainkc wrote:
You have one flaw in your idea of using hydrogen to power automobiles. What if ants decided to suddenly grow to the size of humans? They drink a lot of water. In just a few days, the earth would be devoid of water. Now where would we be? Back to square 1, using gasoline or electric cars. You never thought of that one did you?

Here is my idea: Why not use giant rubber bands and twist them like on balsa airplanes? You would need probably two or three rubber bands and a big, inertial flywheel. While releasing the energy of one rubber band to propel the vehicle, they inertia of the flywheel will wind up the other two rubber bands, therefore, no loss of power. Simple. No ants, no pollution, no problem.
You have one flaw in your idea of using hydrogen t... (show quote)
Brings back memories of childhood....watching the movie "THEM" on an old BW t.v, and building a Gillows balsawood airplane....(those kits were great...25cents....had landing gear...and wings that would split and fall off for any reason.) I remember winding that rubber band SO tight...the little staple hook it connected to would bend or the stick fuselage snapped in too. I wonder if they still make those? (I have a great grandson who's going to be needing flight lessons) he's 10 months old. Great idea though. The only thing I remember about the "GIANT ANTS" was the electronic buzzing sound they made...and that it took the Army awhile to destroy them in the L.A sewers.

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:12:13   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Electric cars pollutes as much if not more than regular cars.
- To charge a car one must use the grid, meaning the energy used is off site in the power plant. This seems ore efficient if it wasn't for the loose regulations when it comes to CO2 emissions.
- Then you have the low efficiency of the batteries. While a modern combustion engine reaches 85% efficiency, the batteries keeps a low 20% of the total power applied. Since the electric system has also a loss that appears negligible of 10% the real efficiency of these cars is 18%. This is far from what already exist.
- Only areas that have fully renewable energy systems can sustain such an energy loss.
- Another obvious source of pollution is due to the chemicals used in batteries. This is rarely mentioned and when it is quickly dismissed. This includes manufacturing AND disposing of the batteries.
- These cars use just as much lubricants than regular cars so there is no 'free pass' here either.

Electric cars do not contribute to society.
- The reason is that by not purchasing gas the driver eschew the gas taxes.
- Tax intensives given by government add insult to injury. Not only the drivers do not pay taxes they receive a credit when purchasing one of these cars.
- In some areas electric cars get 'free charging parking spots'. I have already spotted a few of those in airports.
- Speaking of parking spots... These free charging spots were the closest to the airport access at the expense of handicapped parking. This is not due to the cars themselves but to the stupidity of politicians, as usual.

One technology that has been dismissed way too quickly by the car industry is the Hydrogen 'solution'. Engines and batteries using Hydrogen are more efficient. One is a combustion engine, same as gas but the exhaust is water, not CO2, sulfur and whatever else. The batteries also produce water when they are used. Note that hydrogen cars also pollute due to the lubricants. One advantage thought, catalytic converters that are a major source of pollution when produced and disposed of will not be used anymore. This helps reduce the power loss due to its use in normal cars.

The main advantage of Hydrogen is that it one of the most common element found on Earth and will not run out. By using dialysis water is broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen at will. This process is both chemical and electrical. The result is also pollution when one really thinks about it. Since there is much less loss in the process of producing Hydrogen than simply charging batteries the transfer of pollution is lessened. Once again renewable energy is the solution to this issue. I am not too familiar with the Hydrogen batteries manufacturing and disposal but I assume safely that this is a source of pollution similar to regular batteries.

When it comes to contributing to society, since the Hydrogen needs to be purchased all the negative issues raised when it comes to regular electric cars does not exist and the driver can be taxed at the 'pump'. Tax incentives to push this are needed at first, there is no question, but these should be faded out as the technology takes hold.
b Electric cars pollutes as much if not more than... (show quote)


Energy efficiency is relative.
How efficient is producing electricity?
Hydrogen is the ultimate answer, as burning it you get the product over again to reuse.
Electric cars are a novelty still and no real value for travel.
How long does it take to charge one from empty to full? Typical car is 4 hours, my real car is 4-5 minuets at most including turning the pump on etc. My long drives far exceed the range of an electric car so I would be stuck in the middle of nowhere for a minimum of 4 hours if there is a place to charge the car available. PS a couple of 5 gal gas cans in my Jeep takes me all over the desert with no worries. Try that in a stupid electric car.

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:13:54   #
pokeyid Loc: Idaho
 
A question: how many electric cars can be charged on the same local grid at the same time before the grid fails?

Reply
 
 
Nov 5, 2018 12:15:40   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
pokeyid wrote:
A question: how many electric cars can be charged on the same local grid at the same time before the grid fails?


Three.

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:17:10   #
Powder Hound
 
Well, you'd need a much better gas tank. One of the biggest problems with hydrogen is that conventional storage mechanisms don't work well. The hydrogen atoms are so small that they zip through the sides of metal tanks. You lose a significant percentage in days. So you'll have to figure in those losses as well.

Also for hydrogen, the required infrastructure simply doesn't exist and would be a significant expense. Significant, as in the entire US budget expenditure for defense is a significant expense. At this point in time, it is a solution in search of a problem. There are just too many yet unsolved problems right now. With time, maybe the solutions will become reasonable. Right now, the answer is no.

Cheers,

PH

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:17:57   #
trinhqthuan Loc: gaithersburg
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Electric cars pollutes as much if not more than regular cars.
- To charge a car one must use the grid, meaning the energy used is off site in the power plant. This seems ore efficient if it wasn't for the loose regulations when it comes to CO2 emissions.
- Then you have the low efficiency of the batteries. While a modern combustion engine reaches 85% efficiency, the batteries keeps a low 20% of the total power applied. Since the electric system has also a loss that appears negligible of 10% the real efficiency of these cars is 18%. This is far from what already exist.
- Only areas that have fully renewable energy systems can sustain such an energy loss.
- Another obvious source of pollution is due to the chemicals used in batteries. This is rarely mentioned and when it is quickly dismissed. This includes manufacturing AND disposing of the batteries.
- These cars use just as much lubricants than regular cars so there is no 'free pass' here either.

Electric cars do not contribute to society.
- The reason is that by not purchasing gas the driver eschew the gas taxes.
- Tax intensives given by government add insult to injury. Not only the drivers do not pay taxes they receive a credit when purchasing one of these cars.
- In some areas electric cars get 'free charging parking spots'. I have already spotted a few of those in airports.
- Speaking of parking spots... These free charging spots were the closest to the airport access at the expense of handicapped parking. This is not due to the cars themselves but to the stupidity of politicians, as usual.

One technology that has been dismissed way too quickly by the car industry is the Hydrogen 'solution'. Engines and batteries using Hydrogen are more efficient. One is a combustion engine, same as gas but the exhaust is water, not CO2, sulfur and whatever else. The batteries also produce water when they are used. Note that hydrogen cars also pollute due to the lubricants. One advantage thought, catalytic converters that are a major source of pollution when produced and disposed of will not be used anymore. This helps reduce the power loss due to its use in normal cars.

The main advantage of Hydrogen is that it one of the most common element found on Earth and will not run out. By using dialysis water is broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen at will. This process is both chemical and electrical. The result is also pollution when one really thinks about it. Since there is much less loss in the process of producing Hydrogen than simply charging batteries the transfer of pollution is lessened. Once again renewable energy is the solution to this issue. I am not too familiar with the Hydrogen batteries manufacturing and disposal but I assume safely that this is a source of pollution similar to regular batteries.

When it comes to contributing to society, since the Hydrogen needs to be purchased all the negative issues raised when it comes to regular electric cars does not exist and the driver can be taxed at the 'pump'. Tax incentives to push this are needed at first, there is no question, but these should be faded out as the technology takes hold.
b Electric cars pollutes as much if not more than... (show quote)


You're right. Here a link
How eco-friendly are electric cars?
https://www.dw.com/en/how-eco-friendly-are-electric-cars/a-19441437

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:22:45   #
JerryOSF Loc: Bristol, VA
 
Does gasoline return to your tank when you go downhill? You pay for brake pads, and heat the atmosphere. I recharge my batteries.

Reply
 
 
Nov 5, 2018 12:26:21   #
pokeyid Loc: Idaho
 
That is what I have heard. The best kept secret from the auto industry. Thanks for verifying.

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:33:51   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Electric cars pollutes as much if not more than regular cars.
- To charge a car one must use the grid, meaning the energy used is off site in the power plant. This seems ore efficient if it wasn't for the loose regulations when it comes to CO2 emissions.
- Then you have the low efficiency of the batteries. While a modern combustion engine reaches 85% efficiency...


You/we wish. The thermal efficiency of the typical gas engine is in the 20-25% range with a max reported by Toyota of 38% for gas and 40% for diesel.

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:38:50   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
trinhqthuan wrote:
You're right. Here a link
How eco-friendly are electric cars?
https://www.dw.com/en/how-eco-friendly-are-electric-cars/a-19441437


Very good article, thank you for sharing how stupid the electric car is regarding the environment.

Reply
Nov 5, 2018 12:39:09   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Actually Germany has several trains using Hydrogen for the last couple of years and the country is in the process of moving toward Hydrogen big time. It seems that they are moving away from electric trains when possible. Will the frog follow?

They also having public bus lines that use Hydrogen powered buses for over 20 years now!

Reply
Page <<first <prev 4 of 10 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.