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Timing to go mirrorless?
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Nov 2, 2018 16:28:07   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
billnikon wrote:
For some of the latest Nikon camera's. Nikon has built their own.


Nikon design but Sony built is more likely

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Nov 2, 2018 16:35:22   #
WarpedWeaver
 
Nikon just ran an ad in the last Outdoor Photograpy magazine for the D850 as well as the new Z mirrorless camera. I don't think you have to make a decision in the immediate future.

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Nov 2, 2018 16:37:44   #
newvy
 
Why didn’t Nikon just build in a spacer so there is no need for an adapter? Must be frustrating fir a Nikon user to find out tier nikkors won’t work on the latest Nikon ML cameras.

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Nov 2, 2018 16:41:40   #
Salo Loc: Cherry Hill, NJ
 
Everyone has an opinion as to which is the best camera format, but as someone already stated, it is next to impossible to find a "bad" camera among the major manufacturers these days. I also have quite a large investment in Nikkor lenses going back several decades, but I finally decided to try mirrorless and I chose Micro Four Thirds. Why? Well, size/weight was one reason, but more importantly, virtually any lens ever made can be easily adapted to MFT, and the image quality is also purely fantastic. So, my wonderful Nikkor lenses are still completely useable (in manual mode), and native Olympus M.Zuiko and certain Panasonic lenses also happen to be fantastic optical instruments.

However, rather than jump head-first into the deep end, I bought a slightly used Olympus PEN E-P5 to test the waters. It's already a five year old model but has essentially all the marvellous technical advancements Olympus has pioneered over the past few years including 5-axis image stabilization. I've attached some of my Nikkors to it, and I'm simply amazed by what this little beastie of a camera is capable of. I believe I'm now fully ready to make the dive into the Olympus OM-D MFT system. I think you would be doing yourself a favor by at least checking out MFT. But you know what? I still miss the old days of shooting with my now ancient yet wonderful Nikon film cameras. If you love photography, the equipment is almost secondary.

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Nov 2, 2018 17:00:29   #
twice_shooter
 
suntouched wrote:
Are you keeping the Fuji then?


Only had it for a few days but yes. I plan on using for friends, family get together and weekend getaways. The image output is quite good and I do like the film simulation options. What I like the most is the build quality and ease of use so I’m going to get used to the evf. I do much prefer ovf and will use the d4s and d850 for birds, wildlife, sports.

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Nov 2, 2018 17:58:27   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
newvy wrote:
Why didn’t Nikon just build in a spacer so there is no need for an adapter? Must be frustrating fir a Nikon user to find out tier nikkors won’t work on the latest Nikon ML cameras.


The adapter is basically a spacer for the correct distance from lens to sensor. But if they stopped there you would lose AF, AE, distance information, and whatever else goes through those electrical contacts. If you have a better solution please contact Nikon and let them know.

---

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Nov 2, 2018 18:32:48   #
wildweasel
 
Salo wrote:
Everyone has an opinion as to which is the best camera format, but as someone already stated, it is next to impossible to find a "bad" camera among the major manufacturers these days. I also have quite a large investment in Nikkor lenses going back several decades, but I finally decided to try mirrorless and I chose Micro Four Thirds. Why? Well, size/weight was one reason, but more importantly, virtually any lens ever made can be easily adapted to MFT, and the image quality is also purely fantastic. So, my wonderful Nikkor lenses are still completely useable (in manual mode), and native Olympus M.Zuiko and certain Panasonic lenses also happen to be fantastic optical instruments.

However, rather than jump head-first into the deep end, I bought a slightly used Olympus PEN E-P5 to test the waters. It's already a five year old model but has essentially all the marvellous technical advancements Olympus has pioneered over the past few years including 5-axis image stabilization. I've attached some of my Nikkors to it, and I'm simply amazed by what this little beastie of a camera is capable of. I believe I'm now fully ready to make the dive into the Olympus OM-D MFT system. I think you would be doing yourself a favor by at least checking out MFT. But you know what? I still miss the old days of shooting with my now ancient yet wonderful Nikon film cameras. If you love photography, the equipment is almost secondary.
Everyone has an opinion as to which is the best ca... (show quote)


I made the jump to M 4/3 over a year ago and I am amazed at what the Olympus EM 1 Mark ll can do.



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Nov 2, 2018 18:42:25   #
suntouched Loc: Sierra Vista AZ
 
After awhile you won't notice it. I have both vfs and it's easy to go from one type to the other. On a sunny day it's so much easier to review your images to check for focus. And for video it's so much better to look through the evf to shoot then review the video. One other advantage is that you can see your histogram before you shoot and make adjustments on the fly. Now if you don't review your images and you don't shoot video and don't use a histogram then guess it doesn't matter :) Enjoy.
twice_shooter wrote:
Only had it for a few days but yes. I plan on using for friends, family get together and weekend getaways. The image output is quite good and I do like the film simulation options. What I like the most is the build quality and ease of use so I’m going to get used to the evf. I do much prefer ovf and will use the d4s and d850 for birds, wildlife, sports.

Reply
Nov 2, 2018 19:52:20   #
BigSteve Loc: Pittsburgh,Pa. Area
 
Look at it this way more folks young and old are going mirrorless today.....must be a reason.those that leave old timer DSLR cameras seldom if ever return....must be a reason (70 year old dude here). Listen to many on here be still be farming with horses and driving model T's LOL

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Nov 2, 2018 23:03:53   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
For now I take the position that a mirrorless camera makes no better a picture than my Canon DSLR.

When the IQ of a mirrorless camera proves superior to that of other cameras, then the time to consider mirrorless will have arrived.
andymac wrote:
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that digital photography is moving toward mirrorless cameras and associated lens systems. I have significant Nikon equipment for my bird and nature photography interests including a 500mm F4 and 300mm F2.8 prime lenses. I have a recently purchased D500 I love and have been saving for a D850 - which I have anticipated buying at during the end of the year sales when I hope to see a modest discount to the long stable initial price.

I have come to the realization that at some point there is likely to be an significant advantage such as size and weight of gear - and even technical innovation leadership - to move to a full mirrorless setup.
I understand that there is an adapter to allow me to continue to use my current lenses with the new Nikon mirrorless cameras...but I am not sure that I would necessarily stay with Nikon if I go mirrorless. Steve Perry's evaluation of the new Nikon mirrorless suggested that they are not yet as capable (insufficient burst mode buffering) as current DSLR offerings for action bird photography. I understand that some of the Sony are of comparable capabilities. A friend has a Sony mirrorless and set of lenses that are significantly smaller and more manageable that my gear.

I know from regularly reading the Forum that there are many very thoughtful and knowledgeable members - and maybe some that have already made this transition. So I would like to ask for your thoughts on which companies currently appear to be the true leaders in mirrorless cameras and lens systems - especially as applicable to bird photography. And more specifically, knowing that the technology will continue to evolve, your thoughts on timing - is it the right time to convert or to move forward with my D850 purchase knowing that there will likely come a clear time to make the switch?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that ... (show quote)

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Nov 3, 2018 00:03:09   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Unless you are going Olympus/Fuji/Sony there is no compelling reason to go mirrorless with your Nikon equipment unless you just want to. The Z7 and Z6 are a first foray into real mirrorless for Nikon and most likely will be followed by more D850 type mirrorless in the future.
I would/am waiting for this reason. The Canon and Nikon mount diameters will allow for some pretty incredible lenses that Sony will never be able to produce because of their small diameter mount they chose to keep things fashionably small. Canon is getting ready to put out another lens, the 14-21mm f1.4L, https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-RF-24-105mm-f-4L-IS-USM-Lens.aspx. This is possible with the larger diameter mount. Nikon with a similar diameter will likely do the same as time goes on.
If you have the latest Nikon lenses then they should work reasonably well with the Nikon mirrorless system.
But you need to make the call.
Unless you are going Olympus/Fuji/Sony there is no... (show quote)


The larger diameter lens mount obviously speaks to larger sensors in the future. I could see M43 and medium format as my digital format choices in the future.

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Nov 3, 2018 01:56:02   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
andymac wrote:
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that digital photography is moving toward mirrorless cameras and associated lens systems. I have significant Nikon equipment for my bird and nature photography interests including a 500mm F4 and 300mm F2.8 prime lenses. I have a recently purchased D500 I love and have been saving for a D850 - which I have anticipated buying at during the end of the year sales when I hope to see a modest discount to the long stable initial price.

I have come to the realization that at some point there is likely to be an significant advantage such as size and weight of gear - and even technical innovation leadership - to move to a full mirrorless setup.
I understand that there is an adapter to allow me to continue to use my current lenses with the new Nikon mirrorless cameras...but I am not sure that I would necessarily stay with Nikon if I go mirrorless. Steve Perry's evaluation of the new Nikon mirrorless suggested that they are not yet as capable (insufficient burst mode buffering) as current DSLR offerings for action bird photography. I understand that some of the Sony are of comparable capabilities. A friend has a Sony mirrorless and set of lenses that are significantly smaller and more manageable that my gear.

I know from regularly reading the Forum that there are many very thoughtful and knowledgeable members - and maybe some that have already made this transition. So I would like to ask for your thoughts on which companies currently appear to be the true leaders in mirrorless cameras and lens systems - especially as applicable to bird photography. And more specifically, knowing that the technology will continue to evolve, your thoughts on timing - is it the right time to convert or to move forward with my D850 purchase knowing that there will likely come a clear time to make the switch?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that ... (show quote)


I went from film Olympus, Canon A-2E, and Hasselblad to my first digital, an Olympus SP-550 bridge style camera. I was forced to because we were traveling with friends for two weeks in a very small car in Italy. This showed me what could be a travel advantage. I was not totally happy with the image quality, but I felt it was close enough for 35mm film quality. I still traveled with my 35 pounds of Hasselblad and Canon unless forced to a smaller travel size. I watched as digital changed in both quality and size. When my wife told me to give my SP-550 to our one son, I purchased the Olympus E-M5 three days before going to Ireland for our first FAM bus tour where I knew again I could not travel large. It was this trip that was very revealing as to the travel size and quality of 4/3rds. I have my film Hasselblad and some film Olympus that I will pull out from time to time, but our constant traveling and my getting older has taught me to travel smaller, lighter, and cheaper without a loss of image quality for how and what I shoot. I know I can travel with 6.5 pounds of camera equipment that is equivalent to 14mm to 200mm and can be handheld to at least 4 seconds. I can shoot all day in the rain without any rain gear and only worry about how wet my underwear and socks are. And my 6.5 pounds fits into a 6" X 11" X 12" camera bag including my flash, filters, hand meter, and extra battery.

But my requirements are not your requirements necessarily. Mirrorless will be there if and when you chose to go that direction. You should look over your needs as far as image quality, size, weight, and cost. Make a decision from looking at those and your needs, travel, sports, portrait, etc., rather than someone's opinion. There is no wrong decision.

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Nov 3, 2018 02:01:07   #
idahoshooter Loc: Coeur d'Alene
 
joer wrote:

No lens calibration. If you are a heavy user, no periodic adjustment to compensate for wear and tear. No noise (sound), if you choose. No vibration due to mirror and shutter slap. My bird photography has not suffered. Once I understood the camera and dialed in the appropriate settings I think it has improved.


Mirrorless is the future, just like digital for most photographers. Film still has a place, DSLR will be around a while, but most will move to ML in time. The above features and also at some point there will be a merger of "video" and stills or at least advanced burst mode. For birders (especially waiting for a bird to come out of a nest or launch off a branch), the camera can be buffering continuously and when you hit the "shutter" button, it can record the last couple tenths plus another second or so, and so you can have a full burst (at full resolution). The Olympus OM-D E-M1 already has this feature. It saves 14 images from before the shutter was depressed.
Also the cameras now can show you info through the EVF that you can't get with a DSLR (except in live view): zoom for focusing, brighten dark fields, histograms, etc. The Canon R mount has additional new capabilities.

I am anxious to go mirrorless, just waiting a bit longer for the the IQ and features to be there.

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Nov 3, 2018 02:11:16   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
idahoshooter wrote:
(Snip)... I am anxious to go mirrorless, just waiting a bit longer for the the IQ and features to be there.


What makes you think that IQ and features are not there with mirrorless?

IQ is first and foremost about optics. Not about the recording media.

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Nov 3, 2018 03:02:16   #
idahoshooter Loc: Coeur d'Alene
 
JD750, you are right. I have been reviewing Olympus and Sony spec's since I wrote my first post. Sony certainly has pixel count and dynamic range now. Also, I was using IQ in a general sense.

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