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Lens for Macro Flora
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Sep 27, 2018 22:49:08   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
ballsafire wrote:
Back button focus is ok I suppose if you like that style - I like the "natural old" way by pressing half way on the shooter button.


Yeah, but you can't focus and re compose.

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Sep 27, 2018 23:17:52   #
eokanu
 
Have you tried using a reversing ring or extension tubes with your current lens and camera? These are less expensive than a dedicated macro lens would cost you. You can find a few brands on Amazon. When you are pleased with your skill set then you can spend more money on a dedicated macro or micro lens which is more expensive than either a reversing ring or an extension tube. A few good ones are Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro, Canon 60mm x5 (this lens requires patience and skill and is the best macro lens out there), Canon 180mm F/3.5, Canon 100mm, Nikon 105mm.
Good luck!

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Sep 28, 2018 14:43:08   #
ballsafire Loc: Lafayette, Louisiana
 
eokanu wrote:
Have you tried using a reversing ring or extension tubes with your current lens and camera? These are less expensive than a dedicated macro lens would cost you. You can find a few brands on Amazon. When you are pleased with your skill set then you can spend more money on a dedicated macro or micro lens which is more expensive than either a reversing ring or an extension tube. A few good ones are Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro, Canon 60mm x5 (this lens requires patience and skill and is the best macro lens out there), Canon 180mm F/3.5, Canon 100mm, Nikon 105mm.
Good luck!
Have you tried using a reversing ring or extension... (show quote)


Yes, I have two types of reversing rings and a good set of extension tubes. Thanks for the info.

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Sep 30, 2018 14:34:52   #
PolkadotDaisy Loc: Hawaii
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Hi,

Like several other responses, I recommend a macro lens in the 90mm, 100mm, 105mm range of focal lengths. This is a good compromise of size, hand "holdability" and working distance from your subjects.

Frankly, a lot of flower & plant photography is done at far less magnification than the 1:1 that most macro lenses are capable of doing. As a result, a more compact lens like a 60mm might be workable, too... it will put you closer to the subject, but if not at full magnification you'd still have ample working distance.

The "cheap" way to "do macro" would be to get some macro extension tubes and use those with your 18-135mm. Those tubes go between the lens and camera, forcing the lens to be able to focus closer. I recommend the Kenko tube set (12mm, 20mm & 36mm)... good quality at a reasonable price. Macro tubes have no optics in them, so they generally don't degrade image quality. The more extension you use, the close the lens will be able to focus.... Corollary to that, the longer your lens' focal length, the more extension you'll need to significantly change it's close focusing ability and increase magnification.

I've got Canon and Kenko macro extension tubes.... always have several with me in case I need them. They are relatively small, lightweight and easy to use with only a little practice. They can even be used with macro lenses, to push them beyond their native level of magnification (usually 1:1 or "life size"... which means on an 80D you can photograph an area the size of the sensor, which is approx. 15x22mm).

Your camera usually is sold in kit with the EF-S 18-135mm IS USM or EF-S 18-135mm IS STM lens... which are pretty darned close focusing for a non-macro lens (those lenses are identical optically... the only difference is their focus drive motor.... the newer and more expensive USM version is faster focusing and better tracking movement). They can do 0.28X magnification... or nearly 1:3 (1/3 life size), on their own.

A "true" macro lens will generally give higher magnification and most of them have extremely high image quality. Macro lenses typically are "flat field designs"... meaning that up close they are sharp from corner to corner and evenly illuminated across the entire image area (a non-macro, non-flat field lens such as your 18-135mm can "go soft" in the corners and have some vignetting when made to focus very close, especially when used with extension tubes to push it beyond it's native close focusing ability).

If you have your heart set on a "true" macro lens, there are a number to choose among.... all capable of making high quality images. It's more those lenses' other features that set them apart from each other. And you generally "get what you pay for". In the focal length range recommended, you can choose among:

- Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM.... $900... very high build quality and very full featured. One of only two that can optionally be fitted with a tripod mounting ring (which is quite useful for a lot of macro work, Canon Tripod Ring D... $172).

- Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 VC USD... $650... the latest in a long, series of well respected macro lenses from this manufacturer, quite full featured.

- Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM... $600 + $35 lens hood... An older design without image stabilization, but otherwise largely equal to the capability & qualities of the newer design. This is the only other lens in this range that can optionally be fitted with a tripod mounting ring (Canon Tripod Ring B... $150).

- Sigma 105mm f/2.8 OS HSM... $550... top of the line from Sigma, great reputation and quality.

- Rokinon 100mm f/2.8, Samyang 100mm f/2.8... $500, $450... Same lens selling under different names. Both are manual focus only (some macro work is more easily done manual focus). Also manual aperture control.

- Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8... $500... An earlier design of the Tammy, without VC (stabilization) or USD (ultrasonic focus drive) and not IF (internal focusing).

- Tokina AT-X 100mm f/2.8... $350... A very capable, but simpler lens. Not IF, slower micro motor AF, no stabilization, "focus clutch" req'd to shift between AF and MF.

Some more compact, shorter focal length lenses which risk putting you too close to subjects at full 1:1 (but that high magnification may not be necessary for most flower/flora photography):

- Tamron SP 60mm f/2 Di II... $525... One of few macro lenses with large than f/2.8 aperture, which may make it more useful for some other purposes (portraiture, lower light). IF design. Slower micro motor focus drive. Crop sensor only design.

- Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 USM... $400 + $27 for lens hood... One of the most compact. Faster ultrasonic focus drive. Crop sensor only design.

Some other possibilities....

- Sigma 70mm f/2.8 "Art"... $569... A recently introduced updated version of a lens they've offered for some time.

- Venus Laowa 60mm f/2.8 2:1... $400... An exceptionally high magnification, manual focus only, manual aperture lens.

Not recommended for first time macro users or only macro lens...

- Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8... This is an ultra high magnification (up to 5X life size.... and no less than 1:1), manual focus only lens. Due to the ultra high mag, this is pretty much a tripod-only lens and

- Macro lenses 50mm and shorter focal lengths... too close to subject.

- Macro lenses 150mm and longer... More specialized and difficult to hold steady, smaller aperture needed to offset shallower depth of field.

Regarding some of the features mentioned and you should look for on lenses:

All macro lenses with autofocus tend to be slower focusing than non-macro lenses. In part, that's because they have to move their focusing elements a long, long way to go from infinity to 1:1 magnification. But it's also by design... Slower "long throw" focus designs are used to emphasize accuracy, over speed. This is because depth of field becomes quite shallow at high magnifications.

Some macro lenses have features to help a bit with AF speed. Lenses that use ultrasonic focus drive (Canon USM, Sigma HSM, Tamron USD) are faster focusing and possibly quieter focusing than lenses using micro motor focus drive. A "focus limiter" is another feature on many macro lenses, which can help with focus speed. Just as it sounds, this is used to limit the lens to working within a certain range of it distances, there-by helping it work faster. You will find simpler two-stage focus limiters on some lenses, more advanced three-stage on others.

Ultrasonic focus drive lenses also allow "full time manual override".... meaning that you can fine tune focus manually any time you wish. It's not necessary to turn off the AF system first. This is not the case with micro motor focus drive lenses. They must be manually turned off first. Tokina lenses use an unusual way of doing this, which they call their "focus clutch" mechanism. The lens' focus ring slides slightly forward and backward to switch back and forth between AF and MF. When it's set to AF, turning the focus ring won't do anything. To manually focus the lens must be switched to MF setting (this serves to protect the AF system from possible damage).

"Internal focusing" (or "IF") is another feature you will find on some macro lenses... usually the more expensive ones. This means the lens doesn't grow longer when focused closer. Non-IF macro lenses can nearly double in length when focused to their highest magnification, but may be more compact when set to infinity focus. IF lenses start out larger, but don't change in length even at their highest mag. You never notice it when using them, but IF lenses actually change focal length slightly.... for example, at full 1:1 Canon's two 100mm lenses' "true" focal length is closer to 70mm, when measured in a lab.

Most Canon macro lenses are able to directly use Canon macro flash. The EF 100mm f/2.8 USM, EF-S 60mm f/2.8 and MP-E 65mm all have a built-in feature to directly mount the MR-14EX Ring Lite & MT-24EX Twin Lite flashes. There are adapters sold separately to allow the flash to mount to the EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM and the EF 180mm f/3.5L USM, and it may be possible to similarly adapt a third party lens. There are also alternative mounting methods both for third party and the Canon macro flash.

Both the Canon 100mm macro lenses are unique in that they can optionally be fitted with a very useful tripod mounting ring, at some additional cost. I've cited the cost of the Canon brand ring, which is top quality in both cases... there are cheaper third party tripod rings available (quality unknown, but I'd avoid really cheap plastic ones). In or close to this focal length, no macro lenses from other manufacturers include or can optionally be fitted with tripod rings. Only the two Canon 100s offer this feature.

Two of the above mentioned Canon macro lenses do not come with their matched lens hoods included. I've cited the price to separately purchase the good quality Canon brand hoods, but there are also less expensive third party clones available.
Hi, br br Like several other responses, I recomme... (show quote)


Thank you so very much. You've given me a lot to chew on. I've been looking at 105mm and 100mm lenses.

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Sep 30, 2018 16:56:48   #
latebloomer Loc: Topeka, KS
 
PolkadotDaisy wrote:
Thank you so very much. You've given me a lot to chew on. I've been looking at 105mm and 100mm lenses.


Most Macro Lenses are very good. You might want to consider if you want stabilization in your macro. I almost always use a tripod; therefore, stabilization is not a criteria. If you see yourself doing a lot of handheld shots, you might want stabilization. This could also include using your macro as a portrait lens.
Good luck

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Sep 30, 2018 17:45:55   #
Jakebrake Loc: Broomfield, Colorado
 
latebloomer wrote:
Most Macro Lenses are very good. You might want to consider if you want stabilization in your macro. I almost always use a tripod; therefore, stabilization is not a criteria. If you see yourself doing a lot of handheld shots, you might want stabilization. This could also include using your macro as a portrait lens.
Good luck


Good point. My Sigma 105mm f/2.8 OS HSM mounted on my Canon 5D Mk IV is my go to set up for family portraits I do a couple of times a year. Optical Stabilization is a definite plus for me hand holding.

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Oct 1, 2018 12:37:04   #
PolkadotDaisy Loc: Hawaii
 
Thanks for the input

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Oct 1, 2018 12:38:56   #
PolkadotDaisy Loc: Hawaii
 
I have a small tripod I carry with me if I need it. Usually my subjects are to high for it or on the move. I do use a tripod when I shoot still life at home.

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Oct 1, 2018 12:46:14   #
PolkadotDaisy Loc: Hawaii
 
eokanu wrote:
Have you tried using a reversing ring or extension tubes with your current lens and camera? These are less expensive than a dedicated macro lens would cost you. You can find a few brands on Amazon. When you are pleased with your skill set then you can spend more money on a dedicated macro or micro lens which is more expensive than either a reversing ring or an extension tube. A few good ones are Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro, Canon 60mm x5 (this lens requires patience and skill and is the best macro lens out there), Canon 180mm F/3.5, Canon 100mm, Nikon 105mm.
Good luck!
Have you tried using a reversing ring or extension... (show quote)

I have not, yet! Thanks for the suggestions

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Oct 1, 2018 13:52:42   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
PolkadotDaisy wrote:
Aloha, I've been looking into getting a lens for Macro photos. I'm still pretty new to all of this and researching had become a little overwhelming. So I thought I'd ask for personal experience/preference. I do a lot of Macro Flora. Flowers, leaves, and almost anything on a plant. What lens would you recommend? These were all taken with my Canon 80D with the 18-135 mm kit lens. I want to be able to get up close and personal with the flowers.


Many people have offered good advice here. Close ups of flora are mostly what I do. You can see some of my images at the links below.

The "workhorse" lens for me is the Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro.

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-500375-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-511654-1.html

Mike

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Oct 1, 2018 19:03:14   #
lovemypups Loc: Kentucky
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Many people have offered good advice here. Close ups of flora are mostly what I do. You can see some of my images at the links below.

The "workhorse" lens for me is the Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro.

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-500375-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-511654-1.html

Mike


These are wonderful Mike and if I may ask, are you like Super close? I'm still really new to Macro, but am having a great time experimenting and just not sure if there is a right or wrong way the photos should look or is it kind of "to each their own style"

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Oct 1, 2018 22:24:09   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
lovemypups wrote:
These are wonderful Mike and if I may ask, are you like Super close? I'm still really new to Macro, but am having a great time experimenting and just not sure if there is a right or wrong way the photos should look or is it kind of "to each their own style"


Thanks, Debbie. How close I get depends upon the subject - 6-12" typically, which means anywhere from 1:1 to 1:2 magnification - life size and half-life size, respectively.

"As it is a true 1:1 macro lens, the Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Lens will deliver a subject to your sensor at the same size it is in real life. 1x magnification is achieved at the MFD (Minimum Focus Distance) of 1' (.3m). It doesn't take a very big subject to completely fill the frame at this 1x magnification. The Canon 100mm macro allows a reasonable minimum working distance (MWD) of 6" (150mm) from the end of the lens (without the hood in place). Going further, extension tubes can take the magnification to 1.19x and 1.39x for 12mm and 25mm tubes respectively - at the expense of lost infinity focus." - that is from Bryan Carnathan at the the Digital Picture

The Canon 180 mm macro lens gives you more working distance from the subject, but it is heavier and more expensive. The 50 mm compact macro has less working distance and is less expensive, but is not a true macro lens. I use all three, and all three are very good.

Here is what we mean by "macro lens." This is from UHH member Nikonian72:

"A true MACRO lens is a prime lens (non-zoom) that is designed to focus much closer to front of lens than a standard prime lens or zoom lens. A true MACRO lens can focus close enough to a subject to allow image capture to be the exact same size as subject. This is known as 1:1 magnification (life-size). A MACRO lens can usually focus to infinity as well.

"Another characteristic of a true MACRO lens is a flat-field of focus. Where standard and zoom lenses have fields of focus that curve similar to their front lens element, a MACRO lens is designed to focus on a flat tabletop (as an example) keeping focus on center of table (closest to lens) as well as keeping the corners in focus (farthest from lens)."

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-26505-1.html

There is no right and wrong to it all, really, as there are a wide variety of approaches and equipment being used by people with great results, and of course people have different visions of what they want to achieve in their images.

Mike

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Oct 4, 2018 01:25:42   #
PolkadotDaisy Loc: Hawaii
 
latebloomer wrote:
Most Macro Lenses are very good. You might want to consider if you want stabilization in your macro. I almost always use a tripod; therefore, stabilization is not a criteria. If you see yourself doing a lot of handheld shots, you might want stabilization. This could also include using your macro as a portrait lens.
Good luck


I have a monkeypod as well as a full size tripod.

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Oct 4, 2018 02:18:34   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
PolkadotDaisy wrote:
I have a monkeypod as well as a full size tripod.


Check out all of the rigs people use:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-32754-1.html

Mike

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Oct 4, 2018 09:11:28   #
lovemypups Loc: Kentucky
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Thanks, Debbie. How close I get depends upon the subject - 6-12" typically, which means anywhere from 1:1 to 1:2 magnification - life size and half-life size, respectively.

"As it is a true 1:1 macro lens, the Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Lens will deliver a subject to your sensor at the same size it is in real life. 1x magnification is achieved at the MFD (Minimum Focus Distance) of 1' (.3m). It doesn't take a very big subject to completely fill the frame at this 1x magnification. The Canon 100mm macro allows a reasonable minimum working distance (MWD) of 6" (150mm) from the end of the lens (without the hood in place). Going further, extension tubes can take the magnification to 1.19x and 1.39x for 12mm and 25mm tubes respectively - at the expense of lost infinity focus." - that is from Bryan Carnathan at the the Digital Picture

The Canon 180 mm macro lens gives you more working distance from the subject, but it is heavier and more expensive. The 50 mm compact macro has less working distance and is less expensive, but is not a true macro lens. I use all three, and all three are very good.

Here is what we mean by "macro lens." This is from UHH member Nikonian72:

"A true MACRO lens is a prime lens (non-zoom) that is designed to focus much closer to front of lens than a standard prime lens or zoom lens. A true MACRO lens can focus close enough to a subject to allow image capture to be the exact same size as subject. This is known as 1:1 magnification (life-size). A MACRO lens can usually focus to infinity as well.

"Another characteristic of a true MACRO lens is a flat-field of focus. Where standard and zoom lenses have fields of focus that curve similar to their front lens element, a MACRO lens is designed to focus on a flat tabletop (as an example) keeping focus on center of table (closest to lens) as well as keeping the corners in focus (farthest from lens)."

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-26505-1.html

There is no right and wrong to it all, really, as there are a wide variety of approaches and equipment being used by people with great results, and of course people have different visions of what they want to achieve in their images.

Mike
Thanks, Debbie. How close I get depends upon the s... (show quote)


Many thanks Mike for all the great info, greatly appreciated


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