Retirement and photography (Page 4): Good points, I was always taught to be fair and honest, something someone gets for nothing is worth exactly that. Others will appreciate more of...

Jamers Loc: Michigan

amfoto1 wrote:

PLEASE DON'T!

Hi Jim,

It sounds as if you have generous reasons for thinking you want to do so, but giving away your work for free is a very bad idea for a number of reasons.

First, it devalues your experience, knowledge and abilities... as well as that of every other photographer your "customers" might encounter from then on.

It also doesn't make sense for you to wear out your gear and have no means of replacing it.

Plus it unfairly undercuts other photographers in your area who are trying to make a reasonable living with their talents and a sizeable investment in gear. Ultimately, someone "giving it away free" will put others in the area out of business, which means that customers and clients will have fewer choices.

It reflects onto other service providers, too. How many clergy do you know who will conduct a wedding ceremony for free? How many free wedding gowns and cakes have you seen? Do you know any reception halls that don't charge or caterers offering free food?

Not to mention, "cheap/free customers" can be the absolute worst! Demanding and argumentative. Maybe even more likely to sue you for failure to perform. (Which they can still do, even though the work was done for free... And there you are, without insurance because you work for free!)

It sounds as if you want to "pay it forward" and that's a good thing. But you can do that while still charging a reasonable price. Mentor new photographers who want to get into the business... An important part of that will be teaching them to NOT give away their hard work and skills, wearing out the gear they've invested a lot in for no return. Teach them how to survey a marketplace and their competition, establish a business plan and analyze their cost of doing business, and establish a fair and equitable prices for their work. It's a lot like being a parent. Teach them to stand on their own and make a decent living doing what they love (unless you plan to have them live in your basement and you can afford to feed them and give them an allowance the rest of their lives.)

By all means, offer some free "introductory" classes. Limit the number of students as you see fit, depending upon the type of class. Also limit the jobs you take on to those you prefer and numbers you find comfortable (and develop a list of other photogs you can hand off jobs to, that you don't want to tackle) and keep your costs reasonable.

If you wish, donate "unwanted profits" to some worthy cause, do some charity work, and maybe some "in trade".

Just please don't think "giving it all away free" is a good thing. It's usually not!

There are places where philanthropy is a very good thing. But it must be done carefully and selectively. Otherwise, it all too easily becomes "welfare"... well-intentioned, but often quickly devolved into something that's destructive and self-perpetuating.

PLEASE DON'T! br br Hi Jim, br br It sounds as ... (show quote)

Good points, I was always taught to be fair and honest, something someone gets for nothing is worth exactly that. Others will appreciate more of what you are teaching/doing if they have a value for what they learn/receive. Sometimes... not charging may take away someones dignity, thinking others might find out you gave them a charitable service and not refer you to others, I have found this to be true for over 49 years of health care and photographic services. It is a fine double edged-sword in which your wisdom will dictate your decision.

PAR4DCR Loc: A Sunny Place

Sounds like a great thing to do Jim, good luck!

Don

jim quist Loc: Missouri

I dont need the stress of politics...but thanks for the vote of confidence

jim quist Loc: Missouri

amfoto1 wrote:

PLEASE DON'T!

Hi Jim,

It sounds as if you have generous reasons for thinking you want to do so, but giving away your work for free is a very bad idea for a number of reasons.

First, it devalues your experience, knowledge and abilities... as well as that of every other photographer your "customers" might encounter from then on.

It also doesn't make sense for you to wear out your gear and have no means of replacing it.

Plus it unfairly undercuts other photographers in your area who are trying to make a reasonable living with their talents and a sizeable investment in gear. Ultimately, someone "giving it away free" will put others in the area out of business, which means that customers and clients will have fewer choices.

It reflects onto other service providers, too. How many clergy do you know who will conduct a wedding ceremony for free? How many free wedding gowns and cakes have you seen? Do you know any reception halls that don't charge or caterers offering free food?

Not to mention, "cheap/free customers" can be the absolute worst! Demanding and argumentative. Maybe even more likely to sue you for failure to perform. (Which they can still do, even though the work was done for free... And there you are, without insurance because you work for free!)

It sounds as if you want to "pay it forward" and that's a good thing. But you can do that while still charging a reasonable price. Mentor new photographers who want to get into the business... An important part of that will be teaching them to NOT give away their hard work and skills, wearing out the gear they've invested a lot in for no return. Teach them how to survey a marketplace and their competition, establish a business plan and analyze their cost of doing business, and establish a fair and equitable prices for their work. It's a lot like being a parent. Teach them to stand on their own and make a decent living doing what they love (unless you plan to have them live in your basement and you can afford to feed them and give them an allowance the rest of their lives.)

By all means, offer some free "introductory" classes. Limit the number of students as you see fit, depending upon the type of class. Also limit the jobs you take on to those you prefer and numbers you find comfortable (and develop a list of other photogs you can hand off jobs to, that you don't want to tackle) and keep your costs reasonable.

If you wish, donate "unwanted profits" to some worthy cause, do some charity work, and maybe some "in trade".

Just please don't think "giving it all away free" is a good thing. It's usually not!

There are places where philanthropy is a very good thing. But it must be done carefully and selectively. Otherwise, it all too easily becomes "welfare"... well-intentioned, but often quickly devolved into something that's destructive and self-perpetuating.

PLEASE DON'T! br br Hi Jim, br br It sounds as ... (show quote)

Thanks for your valid concerns, but I think you are reading too much into my post.

Billynikon Loc: Atlanta

When I retired, we started to go on trips we had always wanted to take. Naturally my first thought of a trip is what pictures I can take. We have been to Asheville and Nashville, NC, Savannah.Ga, Charleston, SC, Paris and I am increasing the cameras and lenses that I had. I have a new wide angle, a 28MM, and I take my 850 and my DF wherever we go,

tommyest Loc: N. Hollywood, CA

Of course you are putting some photographers out of a job.

jim quist Loc: Missouri

tommyest wrote:

Of course you are putting some photographers out of a job.

I get the irony, thanks

travlan Loc: San Diego CA

Wow, tough crowd. I really get the conundrum of giving it away for free (putting other photogs out of work) and giving back. Really love the idea of having the recipient pay it off (or what about pay it forward) in some non-pecuniary way. Best with your retirement Jim.

pbradin Loc: Florida

When I retired, It was my daughter's senior year in high school and her final year competing in the Florida High School Rodeo Association. At the end of the school year, there was the National High School Rodeo Association National Finals with the top four from each state in each event qualified to represent their state. I had never gone, but this last year I went and took my trusty camera gear with me. I started shooting Florida Team members when they competed and set up a board in the barn where the Florida Team members kept their horses. At the top of the board was a sign that said "If you are in the photo, it is yours to keep". I had great fun taking those shots, about 4 36-shot rolls per day of Fuji 800 film. It helped bring our team together, and it was great fun knowing that every family had shots of their sons and daughters competing at Nationals. When the next year started, I didn't go to the first few rodeos, but I found I really missed those fun weekends, so I finally went to one. I was hesitant to do any shooting because we had a professional rodeo photographer at each event and I did not want to interfere with his income. Instead, I helped set up a website for them and helped that photographer make the transition to digital. I even brought my computer and a 32" flat-screen TV to run slideshows of each event that had finished just 20 minutes earlier. I got to use my knowledge to help their pro photographer get shots to them quicker, and he ended up making more money and they got their photos a full two weeks quicker. I still do stuff to help them out and it keeps me involved with a great group of kids and families. I found it easy and fun working with a group like theirs. I started volunteering my skills to my church, too, mostly for event promotions and things for their website. There are a lot of fun opportunities for retired photographers to help youth groups and civic groups without interfering with the income of the professional photographers who did things like making yearly yearbooks and personal photographs for churches.

DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX

I have retired 3 or 4 times over the past 18 years. I retired at 75 about 5 months ago. Now I only shoot what pleases me, when it pleases me and, where it pleases me. That's pretty cool and I am having the time of my life. I shoot almost every day.

texaseve Loc: TX, NC and NH

I hope your kindness comes back to you many times around. Have fun!

aubreybogle Loc: Albuquerque, NM

Given Jim's description of the pro bono work he plans to do, I don't envision he will be depriving any professional of their livelihood. The mercenary tone of a number of postings in this thread has surprised, and I guess saddened me.

Steve2014 Loc: Washington state

A local pro decided after several years of private studio work and being the photographer for an institution, he was tired of the daily grind. He bought an old military surplus ambulance, outfitted it as an RV and will spend the next, maybe the rest of his working life, going into small towns, depressed areas of big cities, anywhere the local income hovers at the poverty level doing family portraits for free. His goal is to provide something lasting for people who could never afford a $20 let alone an $800 formal portrait. He will use local Costco or equivalent printers so his costs will be minimum. I thought it would waste the skill of a highly skilled photographer but it is his passion and for that I applaud him, and I applaud Jim Quist for his decision.

aubreybogle Loc: Albuquerque, NM

Steve2014 wrote:

A local pro decided after several years of private... (show quote)

Not to speak for Jim, but I interpreted his posting as expressing precisely this kind of selfless motivation. Far from tearing down the profession of photography, these pro bono activities enhance it in the minds of those that might never have been exposed to it otherwise.

Bipod

There are a lot of non-profits that need photography for advertising.
Also a lot of stuggling musicians.

I was the official photographer for a band for a few years. It was fun.
And I got on the guest list!

The band wasn't exactly in a position to hire Annie Leibovitz

-- or anyone else, at least not at first. So I wasn't taking food out of
anyone's mouth.