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Can I get in trouble for photographing a pretty kid?
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Aug 30, 2018 09:21:44   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Regardless of what the law is, you can be sued by the parents. Even if you were to win a case like that, you'd be in debt to your attorney. Then, there is your suit against them for legal fees. It would go on for a considerable time. It's best you treasure this photo privately and leave it at that.
--Bob
Davethehiker wrote:
Thank you for looking and responding. Three different Presbyterian churches got together and had a picnic and church service in a local public park.

I'm really not that interested in finding out who the kid or his parent's are. I'm just curious about the law.

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Aug 30, 2018 09:33:18   #
epd1947
 
Davethehiker wrote:
Thank you for looking and responding. Three different Presbyterian churches got together and had a picnic and church service in a local public park.

I'm really not that interested in finding out who the kid or his parent's are. I'm just curious about the law.


OK - so you were in an open public park - no one there has an "expectation of privacy" - you are free to photograph as you see fit. Having said that - I would never take a photo of someone else's child without permission from the parent (even though I believe I would be well within my legal right to do so) - As far as posting the photo of the minister - I don't see a problem - you cannot use the photo in a commercial way - to promote a product or service - but other than that you are not subject to any restriction.

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Aug 30, 2018 09:33:52   #
cyclespeed Loc: Calgary, Alberta Canada
 
Doesn't it come down to what the gun rules are in your state? Right to carry, right to carry concealed, and in Florida's case at least, Stand your ground law could come into play since someone could interpret your action of pointing a device at them or their child as a threat to their well being or that they are in imminent danger. I guess this might occur ore often when you choose a long lens on a DSLR.

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Aug 30, 2018 09:43:43   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
cyclespeed wrote:
Doesn't it come down to what the gun rules are in your state? Right to carry, right to carry concealed, and in Florida's case at least, Stand your ground law could come into play since someone could interpret your action of pointing a device at them or their child as a threat to their well being or that they are in imminent danger. I guess this might occur ore often when you choose a long lens on a DSLR.



That's why I carry both a 70~300mm on my camera and a 10mm CCW at 4:00 O'clock.

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Aug 30, 2018 09:45:38   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Wow, are you serious...I hope not. I have to wonder how many others took photos of people at this or any event with their cell phones and posted them online? I suspect it is likely more than the “photographer” did...

cyclespeed wrote:
Doesn't it come down to what the gun rules are in your state? Right to carry, right to carry concealed, and in Florida's case at least, Stand your ground law could come into play since someone could interpret your action of pointing a device at them or their child as a threat to their well being or that they are in imminent danger. I guess this might occur ore often when you choose a long lens on a DSLR.

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Aug 30, 2018 09:50:59   #
epd1947
 
Don, the 2nd son wrote:
Your caution is understandable and warranted. The atmosphere these days with the image of pedophiles lurking around every corner makes taking pics of any youth potentially hazardous. For instance, my most harrowing experience occurred at a playground my 8 year old grandson & I stopped at after an owl hunt. I wanted to get some extreme close ups of the bronze statues of children on display he wanted to play on the equipment. I sent him on with the assurance I would soon catch up. The equipment was in view. Four or five minutes later I walked over to where he should be and couldn't see him. Looked everywhere and no sign of him. PANIC! Walked to the nearest rest room, inside a grandpa and a four+/- year old were washing hands, one glance showed no one else in the tiny room, turned back out. My camera with 400mm f/4 was over my shoulder. Grandpa was "on me" in a flash, shouting about being a pedophile with a camera in a rest room! He followed shouting at me across the park as I in a greater panic (WHERE IS MY BOY1) headed back to the play area. His verbal attack escalated till I whirled around and advanced on him wanting to flatten him! I realized I don't have time for this and headed back to search again. Bellowed for my GS who popped out from under the equipment where he and others were playing "hide & seek." RELIEF! My accuser apologized but the experience leaves me wary of playgrounds while carrying a camera now. He was obviously not familiar with camera equipment, a 400mm in a 12' x 15' room? There have been other wary looks from others while photographing my grandson at play with other kids in parks, sigh what has happened to our society! I can't summon the courage to try "street photography" YIKES!
Your caution is understandable and warranted. The ... (show quote)


People can read situations the wrong way and can overreact - as was the case you are describing. I have not faced a situation such as what you describe - but I think if I did I would say to the other man - look, I am going to call the police and then we can discuss the matter with the officer and I will explain to the officer, in your presence, what I am doing and why. Will that allay your concern over my intentions?

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Aug 30, 2018 10:12:23   #
Naptown Gaijin
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I think I found a way that makes me feel safer about this.

I'm sending the following to the minister of the church where I have been requested to take photos:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Minister #####,

Some “Church ladies” have requested that I take photos at this week end’s 200th annaversery event. In this environment of hyper litigation I think there might be danger of being sued if a take a photo of someone who does not want to be photographed.

My understanding of the law is that if it’s a public forum I’m safe taking photos but if it’s not public it’s not clear what the law is. I think that I would be in a much safer legal position if I could produce an e-mail from YOU requesting that I take photos of the events at YOUR church events this week end. A word of mouth request request from a church lady would not provide me the same protection.

Please email me a written request to take photos at this weekend's events. I’m particularly worried about taking photos of children. I don’t want to chase every child's parent down to get them them to sign a waver.

Thank you,

Dave
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If for any reason the minister does not send me the letter I requested, I'll not take the photos.
If I do get the email I requested, I'll provide a thumb drive to the church with the images and let them do what ever they want to do with them.
I think I found a way that makes me feel safer abo... (show quote)


Change "annaversery" to "anniversary".

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Aug 30, 2018 10:14:41   #
revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson
 
Where there's any question it's best to play safe. The emerging situation in churches regarding sexual matters, especially pedophilia, demands that we be extra careful. Your statement, "One angelic looking boy of about 12 years" would send up red flags immediately. I speak as a Presbyterian pastor (retired) aware of all kinds of questionable situations.

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Aug 30, 2018 10:15:08   #
geebear Loc: Southeast Iowa
 
jdedmonds wrote:
I think the line is drawn between taking the picture (O.K.) and posting it on the internet (not O>K>); If you take your children out in public, neither you nor the child has any expectation of privacy.
But you and the child probably do have an expectation that the child's image will not be made available to everyone. I'm a retired lawyer who practiced criminal defense law so nobody should take what I've said as a basis upon which to act. I'm relying on memory from a first year law school class in torts more than fifty years ago.
I think the line is drawn between taking the pictu... (show quote)

I think this that jd wrote makes the most sense

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Aug 30, 2018 10:16:08   #
steve03 Loc: long Lsland
 
I have never known a preacher who didn't like a good picture of himself. I do not take pictures of kids unless I know the parent, But if you do get a models release signed by parents, even if your not going use for commercial purposes.

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Aug 30, 2018 10:17:50   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
BHC wrote:
The fact that you mention an "angelic looking" boy and a "pretty" wife give me pause. Did you take any pictures of elderly or disabled attendees? Are you really that selective in your choice of subjects? As the "authorized" photographer for a church I attended many years ago, my responsibility was to photograph a significant sampling of the attendees. I NEVER took pictures of prayer sessions. If I took pictures of children, it was with the family or a responsible adult. One young teen was particularly "inappropriate" in the way she dressed and acted in church. I never took her picture, even with her mother, and I told the pastor why. One of the parishioners, an elder and member of the board of directors of the church, was a retired judge. I made it a point to give him a contact sheet of my pictures; he asked for an enlarged print of one shot and said the picture was "borderline" whereupon I went home and destroyed the negative. The only time releases were required was when one of my shots of an entire family was used as on the cover of the annual report. Nobody ever objected to my photographic methods or results.
The fact that you mention an "angelic looking... (show quote)


Something or someone beautiful, pretty, angelic is what motivates many people to take a picture. They don't worry about their being politically incorrect because they haven't balanced their picture taking with ugly, old, or crippled subjects, and rightfully so, in my opinion. A retired judge is the final arbiter of a photograph? Borderline? Borderline pornographic? Borderline satanic?

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Aug 30, 2018 10:19:13   #
FalconChase Loc: Canton,Ohio, USA
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I was at church picnic this past Sunday. I had my camera and a couple good lenses. I used my 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 lens hand held, and got several candid shots of interesting looking people. At one point they asked the children to come up and join the minister in prayer. One angelic looking boy of about 12 years was participating in the service. I zoomed in tight with my 300mm lens and got a surprisingly good photo of him. I have no idea who this kid is or who his parents are.

A little voice in my head is warning me not to post this kids photo on the Internet because I could get in trouble. Is the voice correct?

I feel safe posting a photo of the minister and think it's an interesting picture. He one of several minister who did a bit of preaching this past Sunday. I don't know him and did not get his permission to post his photo. I'm not making any money on these photos.

If I'm breaking any laws, please let me know.
I was at church picnic this past Sunday. I had my ... (show quote)


The Episcopal Diocese of Ohio recently asked all parishioners to sign photography release forms. If a parishioner has not signed a release we cannot use their photograph. This is problematic for church photography, since any group shot may contain an individual who has not signed a release.

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Aug 30, 2018 10:24:09   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
We have legal an we have perception.

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Aug 30, 2018 10:27:35   #
Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I was at church picnic this past Sunday. I had my camera and a couple good lenses. I used my 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 lens hand held, and got several candid shots of interesting looking people. At one point they asked the children to come up and join the minister in prayer. One angelic looking boy of about 12 years was participating in the service. I zoomed in tight with my 300mm lens and got a surprisingly good photo of him. I have no idea who this kid is or who his parents are.

A little voice in my head is warning me not to post this kids photo on the Internet because I could get in trouble. Is the voice correct?

I feel safe posting a photo of the minister and think it's an interesting picture. He one of several minister who did a bit of preaching this past Sunday. I don't know him and did not get his permission to post his photo. I'm not making any money on these photos.

If I'm breaking any laws, please let me know.
I was at church picnic this past Sunday. I had my ... (show quote)


Generally, I would stay away from taking pictures of children (let alone posting them) without the parents consent. As to whether you are breaking any laws, the rules in different states or localities vary.

If the picnic was in in public park and open to all, there would be a lower expectation of privacy. But still, in an age of kiddie porn etc,, I would just stay away from photographing children without the parent's consent.

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Aug 30, 2018 10:29:04   #
gloryg Loc: New York
 
This is to much over thinking. Just some comon sense is needed. These photos were taken at a church function. I would just send any photos that you want to include to the minister. You can express any concerns you have about any of the photos with him. I would think group photos is what the minister would want to see and they would be for the church newsletter or website. Any photos you took for yourself personally that you would not be displaying anywhere is no problem. If you decided to use of these personal photos for any kind of public display with people in them would be a different story. It would not matter if they were children or adults. That is where the legallities can get involved. You also have many people who just to not like being photographed. So I don't think you need to feel intiminadated or give up taking pictures for the church. Just keep the photos for the church within the church. If there is any question on your mind about a particular photo just address it with the minister or don't use it. Then do not use any of these church photos in any public medium.

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