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Perspective is changed with different lenses
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Aug 22, 2018 05:59:51   #
silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.
 
artBob wrote:
In the topic "Does perspective change when you change the focal length?" I was not allowed to reply.
Here's what I wanted to write:
"What bigotry and ignorance. I used Andy's own photos (can be seen towards end of "Does perspective change when you change the focal length?", and AGAIN showed that he and others who deny that focal length changes perspective are wrong. Since scientific experimentation and free speech have been shut down here, I am going to post my response to Andy and the original poster who banned me, in my own topic."
I also would like to tell some of the people on that thread the following, in case they follow here:
"Please stop calling people names, for it shows the weakness of your argument.
"Please stop calling people ignorant. In this case, apparent ignorance of linear perspective on the part of some called into question extensive knowledge on my part--I had to teach the damn stuff. Tough. I know many people cannot perceive it, fail at it. However, to accuse of ignorance actually reveals ignorance."

So, here is a transparency of both Andy's photos, with perspective lines indicated. The perspective is indeed changed. I'll also upload his photos, so others can explore.

Also, I found a stock photo shot by a wide angle lens, and drew the perspective lines on it. They are all over the place, thus false. I then corrected for the lens in Photoshop, and indicated the perspective lines we (and generally a 50-70mm lens sees) see.

Finally, CaptainC, whose post started the whole discussion, posted four photos, all shot from the same place, same distance, on a tripod. He had said those who thought lenses distorted perspective were wrong, and that could be proven by cropping the shorter length lens photo and overlaying it on a tele photo. I did that, because I thought, "Wow, really? That goes against what I had thought." So, I looked at two of those photos, lining up the same, most distant building in each so they matched, and found that perspective indeed had changed. Perspective lines for each shot, one set blue, one set red are overlaid.

If anyone wants to join in the discussion, with insight and honesty, please do. Mysteries remain.
In the topic "Does perspective change when yo... (show quote)


You are absolutely right, different focal length lenses have a unique perspectives. The thing about this site is that there are people on this site that think that their opinions are the only truths and they will defend them with vitriolic attacks and name calling. These people have very fragile egos and they are threatened with truthful posting. The worst offenders are those that are threatened by the truth. There are enough of these kind of folks here and they make themselves heard by being very vocal and attacking anybody that threatens their reality. The worst offenders are religious freaks and it is a mistake to even consider getting into a discussion with them because they cannot see reality.

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Aug 22, 2018 06:03:58   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
wdross wrote:
Did anyone compensate for the movement of the nodule point of the lense?


I did not with my examples, but agree it will make a difference. Considering the closeness of the nearest subject in my tests, differences appear minimal.

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Aug 22, 2018 06:06:59   #
CO
 
artBob wrote:
You prove my point. Perhaps you do not notice a difference, and perhaps that is the problem with many here. I saw it. So, I superimposed the two ice chests, lining up the upper left corner (any spot would do) and voila! The perspective is different.

You can see that, right?


Those small misalignments are due to me not having the lens zoomed to exactly 1.5 times the focal length for the full frame camera. I shot at 85mm for the full frame camera and approximately 56mm for the crop sensor camera. Those are two photos I posted to show that depth of field changed. Look at the two sets of photos above that set in my post. The ones that are shot looking along the walkway show that perspective did not change.

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Aug 22, 2018 06:07:30   #
BebuLamar
 
silver wrote:
You are absolutely right, different focal length lenses have a unique perspectives. The thing about this site is that there are people on this site that think that their opinions are the only truths and they will defend them with vitriolic attacks and name calling. These people have very fragile egos and they are threatened with truthful posting. The worst offenders are those that are threatened by the truth. There are enough of these kind of folks here and they make themselves heard by being very vocal and attacking anybody that threatens their reality. The worst offenders are religious freaks and it is a mistake to even consider getting into a discussion with them because they cannot see reality.
You are absolutely right, different focal length l... (show quote)


And I am sorry but you're absolutely wrong. What we are saying are not opinions but facts. So if you think it's a mistake to get into a discussion with us then don't do it.

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Aug 22, 2018 06:24:42   #
CO
 
Please see Neil Van Niekerk's article about the subject. He's a professional photographer who writes excellent articles. Here is a link.

https://neilvn.com/tangents/full-frame-vs-crop-sensor-cameras-comparison-depth-of-field/

Here's a statement from his article:

You can not “zoom with your feet”, because if you change your position, your perspective changes.
With a zoom, the perspective does not change – you are merely enlarging the image.

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Aug 22, 2018 06:42:39   #
The Villages Loc: The Villages, Florida
 
no one is going to read all this stuff!

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Aug 22, 2018 06:49:07   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
artBob wrote:
If "rooflines are curved," that immediately tells you the linear perspective is off.

"Changes in the relative sizes of elements in the foreground, middle ground and background are what clearly indicate changes in perspective."
FALSE. Linear perspective is based on parallel lines converging on a vanishing point at eye level. The spacing of objects also follows certain laws, which any long lens shot, as objects become more distant, clearly botches up. (see the example) Some call it "optical compression," but it remains bad perspective, an would not appear in a standard lens.

"You need to come up with something more substantial."
Is that a JOKE? I used CaptainC's own examples, shot on a tripod, from the same distance, at the same angled for my proof. You have SHOWN nothing of proof.
If "rooflines are curved," that immediat... (show quote)


I hope you guys don't come up against anything important.

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Aug 22, 2018 06:59:51   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
WOW! This one has certainly been entertaining. For consideration I submit:

https://photographycourse.net/focal-length-perspective/
https://photonaturalist.com/understanding-perspective-and-focal-length/
https://www.sony.com/electronics/focal-length-angle-of-view-perspective

Go wild.

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Aug 22, 2018 07:13:56   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
My God, there was a round two of this topic! This <expletive> topic seems to have gotten more written about it in two days than the General Theory Of Relativity (Einstein) and the Announcement of The Structure of DNA (Watson & Crick) combined did back in their initial day.


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Aug 22, 2018 07:15:24   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
lamiaceae wrote:
My God, there was a round two of this topic! This <expletive> topic seems to have gotten more written about it in two days than the General Theory Of Relativity (Einstein) and the Announcement of The Structure of DNA (Watson & Crick) combined did back in their initial day.



Include; This is Total BS by Joe Goblegotts.

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Aug 22, 2018 07:24:28   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
wdross wrote:
Did anyone compensate for the movement of the nodule point of the lense? That will cause a zoom lense to "move" even when the tripod doesn't. ....

Yes, I mentioned it in this earlier post where I said, "2. The front element of the zoom might move forward slightly but this effect is likely to be too small to be visible in the image."

The entrance pupil (front nodal point) may move an inch or two in a zoom lens but that difference is so minuscule compare to the subject distances being looked at here (from 5 feet to infinity) that is will be undetectable. It will not change the perspective.

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Aug 22, 2018 08:15:36   #
nf9a
 
fight ya divils, we hate peace....Children get a talking to, you just keep on arguing and get nowhere. Perspective is in the eye of the beholder.

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Aug 22, 2018 08:20:44   #
twillsol Loc: St. Louis, MO
 
artBob wrote:
No, YOU do it. I have done it with better photos than these, and you still persist. Go ahead and superimpose them and SHOW us. I assume you are just gazing at these simple examples for your judgment. First mistake. More importantly, shoot a downtown scene or such so you get some depth. As I wrote, if you want to shoot a chair (or desk in this case) at 6 ft. your whole life, you don't have to worry about perspective distortion very much.

As to the horrid snark about spreading information, just refrain from your personal insights and stick to facts please.
No, YOU do it. I have done it with better photos t... (show quote)


Sorry Andy, but here is one article that says changing lenses changes perspective. You wanted one from Bob, and I decided to help.

https://www.michaelfrye.com/2015/03/29/lenses-perspective/

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Aug 22, 2018 08:29:02   #
artBob Loc: Near Chicago
 
Grahame wrote:
Really ?

I can only assume you have made that assumption based upon the 'accuracy' of the red and blue lines you placed on your attempt to align my two images.

Out of interest, what is the red line that I have pointed out below supposed to be aligned with Bob?


It is no more an "assumption" than atomic theory. It is used on solid linear perspective principles. The red line you question is aligned with the porch floor in the wide angle shot.

Your questioning of my placement is puzzling, as that is the typical way any perspective study proceeds. Are you not familiar with linear perspective? Here's a good reference: https://psych.hanover.edu/krantz/art/linear.html

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Aug 22, 2018 08:47:28   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
twillsol wrote:
Sorry Andy, but here is one article that says changing lenses changes perspective. You wanted one from Bob, and I decided to help.

https://www.michaelfrye.com/2015/03/29/lenses-perspective/


From that article:

"... but I got close enough to the grasses to make them look relatively large, and that’s what created the size difference and sense of depth."

This is similar to what I saw in a video. In reality what they are saying is that changing the focal length changed the perspective, because it forced them to change their position to get the image they wanted.

--

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