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ND Pro and Con ?
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Jul 7, 2018 06:34:14   #
Bultaco Loc: Aiken, SC
 
Gene51 wrote:
An ND filter is not supposed to change the character of the light. It should only diminish it so that you can either use a wider aperture for shallow depth of field or a longer shutter speed, which can be used to blur water movement, show a blurred background/foreground while panning, etc.

If you are not looking to do either of the above, then you aren't likely to get any different results using an ND filter.

On the other hand, if you have bright specular reflections, foliage, etc that has lots of reflected sunlight, a circular polarizer "may" help.

The blue cast is undesirable, but if you shoot raw and the scene has a neutral gray target in it, you can use the target to easily adjust the color balance.

When asking for advice and guidance on images, it's usually a good idea to include a sample image or two, with the "Store Original" box checked.
An ND filter is not supposed to change the charact... (show quote)



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Jul 7, 2018 07:55:44   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
If you are having color shifts it is time to trash what you have and buy a quality ND filter. A circular polarizer is also considered a ND filter with a 2 stops filter factor at full polarization.
That is what I use all the time when I need a ND with the 2 stops filter factor.
Not very good to photograph people though.

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Jul 7, 2018 08:29:10   #
gwilliams6
 
Gene51 has it right here, follow his advice.

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Jul 7, 2018 09:31:41   #
Pablo8 Loc: Nottingham UK.
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
That's not the point. You should only use a ND filter if you have a specific reason - to be able to shoot wide open in very bright light, or to use slow shutter speeds in bright light. A good ND filter is color neutral, and if your ND is shifting your color balance, then it is defective.


************************************************
My suggestion to the OP, was to correct the colour bias that his filter was causing. I did not infer he was using the filter for the correct purpose, or incorrect purpose. Just how to correct the colour bias. I hope it helped him in some way.

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Jul 7, 2018 10:19:47   #
steveg48
 
The best ND filters don't have color casts. They are more expensive. You get what you pay for.
There are two reasons I use ND filters
1. For long exposures-to smooth out clouds or water. Typically use a 10 or 16 stop filter.
2. In daylight If I want to shoot with a shall depth of field,- for some reason).
If I am shooting at f2.8, for example and it is bright out I will have to use a fast shutter speed to get the correct exposure.
You will find that you may max out your camera. For example you need 1/8000 sec but the camera only goes to 1/4000 sec.
If you use a 4 stop filter you will then be able to use a speed of 1/500 to get a correct exposure and have shallow depth of field.

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Jul 7, 2018 10:42:55   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
First of all, I looked up Kood filters... I'd never heard that brand name before.

Turns out they mostly seem to sell very cheap, uncoated, optical plastic filters (in Cokin filter sizes, it appears). $16.50 for an 84mm "P" series size 2 stop ND Grad. That's about half the price of a Cokin, which are relatively low cost filters, too. High quality such as Singh Ray, Lee, Formatt-Hitech, Tiffen, etc cost $100 or more for the same type of filter.

When you put cheap junk filters in front of your lens to shoot through, you should expect it will effect the images in bad ways... like weird color casts. You lose image quality by using poor quality filters!

But other responses are correct... and ND filter is the wrong type for what you are tying to do. You need a Circular Polarizer. Those will reduce reflections, deepen the blue of the sky, help saturate colors and more.

I recommend B+W brand C-Pol. Check your lens, but I think you need a 67mm. Top of the line B+W XS-Pro High Transmissive C-Pol in that size costs $90. That filter uses Schott glass with 16-layer "nano" multi=coatings, fine Kaesemann polarizing foils, in a slim brass frame. Also very good, B+W F-Pro High Transmissive C-Pol in 67mm costs $70. The difference is that it use 8-layer multi-coatings and a standard brass frame.

You can find similar quality such as Breakthrough X4, Heliopan, Hoya HD3... but they cost 1.5X to 2X as much as the B+W.

While quality filters can help, there is a limit.

You mention photographing people out in bright sun... Much of the day, when the sun is high in the sky, you will have heavy shadows to deal with. No filter can solve that for you. In those situations, I'll often use fill flash...

Alternatively, an assistant holding a reflector can bounce light onto the subject. Or, move everyone into a more shaded spot.

Shooting outdoors in strong sunlight, a lens hood would likely help, too. If not already using one, it can keep oblique light off your lens, reducing flare that robs images of color and contrast. A side benefit is that a lens hood helps protect your lens and any filter on it from bumps. A downside when using a circular polarizer is that you may have to temporarily remove the hood to adjust the filter. But it depends on the hood... some are wide and shallow enough you can reach in and rotate the filter... others aren't.

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Jul 7, 2018 11:08:59   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
Lukabulla wrote:
Hi Everyone ,
Im new to ND filters as its Very Sunny and hot in London I though i would try out
shooting with ND filter .. I got one a Kood 2 stop ..

I'm using D300s with 18- 105.. took a cpl of test shots and found the images had a dark blue cast and colors changed
slightly ... is this normal ?
Does one loose quality by using an ND filter ?

The reason I got one is that in Very sunny conditions results are often ' too bright ' and lack a bit of character ..

tomorrow I'm shooting a big outdoor event so wondering if the ND will hinder my results of improve them ..

Thanks Loads
Hi Everyone , br Im new to ND filters as its Very ... (show quote)

ND filters are useless in the city.

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Jul 7, 2018 11:26:31   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
jackpinoh wrote:
ND filters are useless in the city.


That's an odd statement. You could use a ND filter anywhere to allow you to shoot wide open to get an out of focus background in bright light.

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Jul 7, 2018 12:23:08   #
jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
That's an odd statement. You could use a ND filter anywhere to allow you to shoot wide open to get an out of focus background in bright light.

Or . . . you could increase your shutter speed and/or change your viewpoint. Many cameras allow up to 1/32,000 sec in electronic shutter mode. If the light is still too bright, you are likely to have big problems with harsh contrast and dynamic range that your ND filter won't solve.

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Jul 7, 2018 12:26:25   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
jackpinoh wrote:
ND filters are useless in the city.


Not when you have a specific look in mind. An uninformed opinion.

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Jul 7, 2018 13:36:43   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Lukabulla wrote:
Hi Everyone ,
Im new to ND filters as its Very Sunny and hot in London I though i would try out
shooting with ND filter .. I got one a Kood 2 stop ..

I'm using D300s with 18- 105.. took a cpl of test shots and found the images had a dark blue cast and colors changed
slightly ... is this normal ?
Does one loose quality by using an ND filter ?

The reason I got one is that in Very sunny conditions results are often ' too bright ' and lack a bit of character ..

tomorrow I'm shooting a big outdoor event so wondering if the ND will hinder my results of improve them ..

Thanks Loads
Hi Everyone , br Im new to ND filters as its Very ... (show quote)


You might find this article to be of interest: http://photographylife.com/polarizing-nd-and-uv-filters

Reply
 
 
Jul 7, 2018 14:17:22   #
cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast
 
Not to hijack the thread but I can't stop myself from commenting: Very sunny and hot in London? London, England? We lived there for 3 years in the late 60's and can't recall reading about any global axis shifting since then! We wore warm coats almost every day. Of course, we came from Sunny Southern California and our standards may have been a bit distorted.

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Jul 7, 2018 14:44:56   #
drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
 
camerapapi wrote:
If you are having color shifts it is time to trash what you have and buy a quality ND filter. A circular polarizer is also considered a ND filter with a 2 stops filter factor at full polarization.
That is what I use all the time when I need a ND with the 2 stops filter factor.
Not very good to photograph people though.


ND versus Circular Polarizer. They are not the same things and should never be confused with each other. One reduces light into a lens hence the term Neutral Density while the other polarizes the light going into the lens in a circular fashion hence the term Circular Polarizer. A circular Polarizer can reduce light to some effect but not the way a ND filter does.
ND filters are designed to only lower the amount light going into a lens by the number of f-stops marked on the filter. That is all they are made to do. Some folks say the ND is good for waterfalls when all they needed to do was use a slower shutter speed and not use auto ISO.
Those who use auto ISO never notice that their ISO changes and by the change of ISO a great other number of changes occur in a shot that is not noticed by using ISO in auto mode. Such as if in shutter mode on camera fixes your shutter speed thus your f-stop will be larger creating a longer focal distance. If in aperture mode on camera it fixes your f-stop and your shutter speed will be decreased causing blurred images due to motion.
A circular polarizer is meant to be moved circularly in front of a lens to achieve the correct amount of polarization desired sometimes this amount of polarization reduces the amount of light going into the lens and only because it is like wearing a pair of polarized sunglasses. Circular Polarizer works only if the sun is at a particular directional angle from the shot. The Circular Polarizer adds nothing nor detracts anything from a shot unless the sun is at the proper angle during the shot.
It says all of this on the enclosed sheet of instructions that usually come with each ND or Circular Polarizer unless you buy it from a dealer who thinks you know something about either of them. Then the filters usually do not send instructional sheets with them.
I suggest to really learn photography you need to go back to the days when ISO was not automatic.
ISO bright sunlight use ISO 100 with a lower shutter speed. Sports action sunlight use ISO 400 to 800 and a high shutter speed increase or decrease ISO as the light fails or becomes greater as the day progresses. Sometimes you may be able to shoot sports daytime with an ISO of 100. Especially around noon with an open sky and bright sunlight.
Indoor sports use ISO above 6400 if possible and use the highest shutter speed you can use allowing the f-stop to be either auto or adjust in camera while you shoot the game.
For waterfalls use ISO 50 or 25 as was the choice for Kodachrome most of the times. The use a high f-stop like 11 or above (allows a large depth of field in any lens) then let the shutter speed become low as in 1/15 sec. or slower if necessary to obtain a great exposure. Only if your camera will not accept an ISO below 100 then it is time to for you to use an ND filter to reduce the amount of light going into the lens. Thus you are manually adjusting your ISO to a lower setting by the use of an ND filter.
I learned all of this during the first month of my college photography experience. It was very useful in the 1500 plus weddings I photographed professionally not to mention all of the group shots and portraits I shot during that same time. I ask please those who shoot in all auto especially auto ISO take your camera off automatic and learn the basics before buying a lot of filters you may not need. In some cases you may find if you learn programs like Photoshop you may never need filters except for the basic ones like Circular Polarizers and that UV one we all keep on the front of our lens to keep from scratching the lens. That UV filter in digital is already behind the lens and in front of the sensor as well as a filter for infrared light. In camera you can adjust for color shift but I will keep that for another short lesson. Not too many filters are needed these days of digital cameras. I have a drawer full of them from film days.

Reply
Jul 7, 2018 14:50:27   #
drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
 
amfoto1 wrote:
First of all, I looked up Kood filters... I'd never heard that brand name before.

Turns out they mostly seem to sell very cheap, uncoated, optical plastic filters (in Cokin filter sizes, it appears). $16.50 for an 84mm "P" series size 2 stop ND Grad. That's about half the price of a Cokin, which are relatively low cost filters, too. High quality such as Singh Ray, Lee, Formatt-Hitech, Tiffen, etc cost $100 or more for the same type of filter.

When you put cheap junk filters in front of your lens to shoot through, you should expect it will effect the images in bad ways... like weird color casts. You lose image quality by using poor quality filters!

But other responses are correct... and ND filter is the wrong type for what you are tying to do. You need a Circular Polarizer. Those will reduce reflections, deepen the blue of the sky, help saturate colors and more.

I recommend B+W brand C-Pol. Check your lens, but I think you need a 67mm. Top of the line B+W XS-Pro High Transmissive C-Pol in that size costs $90. That filter uses Schott glass with 16-layer "nano" multi=coatings, fine Kaesemann polarizing foils, in a slim brass frame. Also very good, B+W F-Pro High Transmissive C-Pol in 67mm costs $70. The difference is that it use 8-layer multi-coatings and a standard brass frame.

You can find similar quality such as Breakthrough X4, Heliopan, Hoya HD3... but they cost 1.5X to 2X as much as the B+W.

While quality filters can help, there is a limit.

You mention photographing people out in bright sun... Much of the day, when the sun is high in the sky, you will have heavy shadows to deal with. No filter can solve that for you. In those situations, I'll often use fill flash...

Alternatively, an assistant holding a reflector can bounce light onto the subject. Or, move everyone into a more shaded spot.

Shooting outdoors in strong sunlight, a lens hood would likely help, too. If not already using one, it can keep oblique light off your lens, reducing flare that robs images of color and contrast. A side benefit is that a lens hood helps protect your lens and any filter on it from bumps. A downside when using a circular polarizer is that you may have to temporarily remove the hood to adjust the filter. But it depends on the hood... some are wide and shallow enough you can reach in and rotate the filter... others aren't.
First of all, I looked up Kood filters... I'd neve... (show quote)






good advice and Tiffen or Vivitar usually sells filters the cheapest and were good enough in film days to not give off color results on film. Besides in camera these days you do have the option of changing from auto to any other light source by changing your auto color adjust in camera.

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Jul 7, 2018 22:03:39   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Yes, the local camera store has bins full of filters in their used department...many have been used little or not at all...

drklrd wrote:
ND versus Circular Polarizer. They are not the same things and should never be confused with each other. One reduces light into a lens hence the term Neutral Density while the other polarizes the light going into the lens in a circular fashion hence the term Circular Polarizer. A circular Polarizer can reduce light to some effect but not the way a ND filter does.
ND filters are designed to only lower the amount light going into a lens by the number of f-stops marked on the filter. That is all they are made to do. Some folks say the ND is good for waterfalls when all they needed to do was use a slower shutter speed and not use auto ISO.
Those who use auto ISO never notice that their ISO changes and by the change of ISO a great other number of changes occur in a shot that is not noticed by using ISO in auto mode. Such as if in shutter mode on camera fixes your shutter speed thus your f-stop will be larger creating a longer focal distance. If in aperture mode on camera it fixes your f-stop and your shutter speed will be decreased causing blurred images due to motion.
A circular polarizer is meant to be moved circularly in front of a lens to achieve the correct amount of polarization desired sometimes this amount of polarization reduces the amount of light going into the lens and only because it is like wearing a pair of polarized sunglasses. Circular Polarizer works only if the sun is at a particular directional angle from the shot. The Circular Polarizer adds nothing nor detracts anything from a shot unless the sun is at the proper angle during the shot.
It says all of this on the enclosed sheet of instructions that usually come with each ND or Circular Polarizer unless you buy it from a dealer who thinks you know something about either of them. Then the filters usually do not send instructional sheets with them.
I suggest to really learn photography you need to go back to the days when ISO was not automatic.
ISO bright sunlight use ISO 100 with a lower shutter speed. Sports action sunlight use ISO 400 to 800 and a high shutter speed increase or decrease ISO as the light fails or becomes greater as the day progresses. Sometimes you may be able to shoot sports daytime with an ISO of 100. Especially around noon with an open sky and bright sunlight.
Indoor sports use ISO above 6400 if possible and use the highest shutter speed you can use allowing the f-stop to be either auto or adjust in camera while you shoot the game.
For waterfalls use ISO 50 or 25 as was the choice for Kodachrome most of the times. The use a high f-stop like 11 or above (allows a large depth of field in any lens) then let the shutter speed become low as in 1/15 sec. or slower if necessary to obtain a great exposure. Only if your camera will not accept an ISO below 100 then it is time to for you to use an ND filter to reduce the amount of light going into the lens. Thus you are manually adjusting your ISO to a lower setting by the use of an ND filter.
I learned all of this during the first month of my college photography experience. It was very useful in the 1500 plus weddings I photographed professionally not to mention all of the group shots and portraits I shot during that same time. I ask please those who shoot in all auto especially auto ISO take your camera off automatic and learn the basics before buying a lot of filters you may not need. In some cases you may find if you learn programs like Photoshop you may never need filters except for the basic ones like Circular Polarizers and that UV one we all keep on the front of our lens to keep from scratching the lens. That UV filter in digital is already behind the lens and in front of the sensor as well as a filter for infrared light. In camera you can adjust for color shift but I will keep that for another short lesson. Not too many filters are needed these days of digital cameras. I have a drawer full of them from film days.
ND versus Circular Polarizer. They are not the sam... (show quote)

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