Amature Bokeh Question - Iron Horse
Jul 3, 2018 09:44:46 #
Jul 3, 2018 09:55:43 #
garygrafic
Loc: South Florida
Bokeh?.............All of you who do nothing but talk about "improving bokeh", trying for better bokeh, anyone that makes bokeh their prime reason for shooting, all of you, and you know who you are,
should be taken behind the woodshed and be given a good spanking and also have their mouthes washed out with soap. If you get up in the morning, full of energy, creative juices flowing and say to yourself "today I'm going to shoot some fabulous bokeh!"............the woodshed for you. Think of what goes on in FRONT of the bokeh first and foremost. If the subject interests you but the background is crap think "perhaps I'd better shoot wide open rather than f:16? Maybe the 85 rather than the 35, perhaps move in tighter. All these will throw the background out of focus. Think of bokeh a bonus, a gift, if it's there and looks interesting AND the subject is dynamite, consider yourself a very, very talented photographer. I cannot think of a single photographer whose legacy was bokeh. Ernst Haas did beautiful stuff, the subject came 1st, bull fighter, blur, bokeh. Tell me of a photographer whose legacy is bokeh. Am I wrong?
should be taken behind the woodshed and be given a good spanking and also have their mouthes washed out with soap. If you get up in the morning, full of energy, creative juices flowing and say to yourself "today I'm going to shoot some fabulous bokeh!"............the woodshed for you. Think of what goes on in FRONT of the bokeh first and foremost. If the subject interests you but the background is crap think "perhaps I'd better shoot wide open rather than f:16? Maybe the 85 rather than the 35, perhaps move in tighter. All these will throw the background out of focus. Think of bokeh a bonus, a gift, if it's there and looks interesting AND the subject is dynamite, consider yourself a very, very talented photographer. I cannot think of a single photographer whose legacy was bokeh. Ernst Haas did beautiful stuff, the subject came 1st, bull fighter, blur, bokeh. Tell me of a photographer whose legacy is bokeh. Am I wrong?
Jul 3, 2018 10:08:32 #
tainkc wrote:
Do you even know what bokeh is? The background th... (show quote)
KillroyII is a new member and just trying to learn. Why are you being such a jerk about answering his question. Lighten up - try to be more helpful.
Jul 3, 2018 10:12:27 #
Jul 3, 2018 10:17:06 #
garygrafic wrote:
Bokeh?.............All of you who do nothing but t... (show quote)
No; but I don't think the OP was talking about bokeh, even though he used that word.
Now about the woodshed, I think that's a little harsh.....
Jul 3, 2018 10:47:04 #
There are a lot of good examples of bokeh that have been posted so far.
Here is an example that I took a few days ago. The intent was to get the flower in focus and blur the background. As was stated earlier bokeh happens when you intentionally create a shallow depth of field. You also have to watch when you use a shallow depth of field that you don't loose the sharpness of your subject. If you are to far away from the object you will not have a nice crisp image.
Best way to figure it out is with experimenting, take an object and photograph it with one lens at different apatures and focal lengths and see how your photo's come out. it doesn't matter what you use as the subject just take the photo over and over with different settings and observe what you get. This is how we learn. Some lenses are better at others for bokeh.
Happy shooting.
Here is an example that I took a few days ago. The intent was to get the flower in focus and blur the background. As was stated earlier bokeh happens when you intentionally create a shallow depth of field. You also have to watch when you use a shallow depth of field that you don't loose the sharpness of your subject. If you are to far away from the object you will not have a nice crisp image.
Best way to figure it out is with experimenting, take an object and photograph it with one lens at different apatures and focal lengths and see how your photo's come out. it doesn't matter what you use as the subject just take the photo over and over with different settings and observe what you get. This is how we learn. Some lenses are better at others for bokeh.
Happy shooting.
Jul 3, 2018 12:23:47 #
Angel Star Photography
Loc: Tacoma, WA
KillroyII wrote:
1st picture shared by an amateur trying to improve... (show quote)
The first one has potential. The second one is a good start and I believe this subject may lend itself to some good practice. If you can return to this location, I recommend that you try from different distances and angles. Pay attention to your background while maintaining focus on the subject. In particular, note how the background reflects the light---in this case, the sun---and its intensity. Know the construction of your lens or lenses and try to understand the potentials for possibly creating a bokeh background. Some lens will not do so well whereas others will be impressive and then some will be interesting. Get out there and experiment with lighting, angle, distance, lenses, apertures, and have fun with what you create in your images.
Here is a good write-up of bokeh, the history, and why it happens. Understanding the latter will help guide you into your approach. Also in the article are examples and I think you will find them interesting as they are not what many perceive bokeh to be. I know it was certainly a surprise to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh
Here is a video that you may find helpful and inspiring. This guy can be entertaining at times.
https://youtu.be/PQNyu74Jd6U
And just for fun...
https://youtu.be/H5jjr_vKruU
Jul 3, 2018 12:54:11 #
garygrafic
Loc: South Florida
Kilroy should learn at the start what is and what is not, and I did tell him how achieve bokeh, aperture, longish lens and distance to subject. I didn't say execute hm, just a little slap on the tush. Lighten up my friend..
Jul 3, 2018 13:11:11 #
Your best responses to the OPC's question have been from goofynoofy, Linda from Main, and Tex-5.
Please understand that bokeh has three main considerations...aperture, distance from subject to the background, and distance from camera to subject. there is balance to be discovered for each situation to create bokeh. Practice/experience is the best way to know.
Please understand that bokeh has three main considerations...aperture, distance from subject to the background, and distance from camera to subject. there is balance to be discovered for each situation to create bokeh. Practice/experience is the best way to know.
Jul 3, 2018 13:54:33 #
Question is do you? Bokeh has absolutely nothing to do with, as you put it, "The background should be full of round objects (berries on a bush for example) just to begin with." Round objects are produced, in certain situation, by the effect of bokeh not because there are round objects in the background - that's ridiculous. Here is a Wiki article you should read so you understand what bokeh is (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh).
tainkc wrote:
Do you even know what bokeh is? The background th... (show quote)
Jul 3, 2018 14:06:50 #
srt101fan wrote:
Shouldn't the lens set at 1.8 have created a softer background? Why didn't it?
Shouldn't the lens set at 1.8 have created a softer background? Why didn't it?
Semantics! Bokeh or DOF. What needs to be understood is, of course, DOF and hypercritical focus. The point is that the background isn't blurred enough for the OP. Why didn't it? Because both horse & background were in (or close enough to) the DOF range.
What would make the background more blurry? Increasing the ratio of background distance to subject distance. The front forward shot of the horse is such. Unfortunately, getting even closer would only get a part of the horse. That could be overcome with a wide angle lens, but such a lens has a greater DOF giving us the original problem again.
Jul 3, 2018 14:23:59 #
shutterlab wrote:
“Pointless Balls of Light” would be a great name for a punk-rock band.
Or just Pointless Balls. . .
Jul 3, 2018 14:38:23 #
PHRubin wrote:
Semantics! Bokeh or DOF. What needs to be understo... (show quote)
Semantics, schemantics
There are two concepts being discussed in this thread, and of course, they are not the same.
My comment/question, quoted by you, simply expressed my surprise that the OP's 50 mm lens, set at 1.8, did not produce a blurrier background.
Jul 3, 2018 14:44:37 #
srt101fan wrote:
As usual, Gene, I learned much from your post. Ho... (show quote)
Depth of field was deep enough and distance to the background close enough so that even a 50 mm lens at F1.8 rendered the background with less softness.
Kilroy has two options using that lens at that aperture - move closer, increasing ratio of distance to background relative to foreground, or move to another point of view where the background is further away. Focusing in front of the horse risks getting a soft horse.
Second alternative involves shooting this as a panorama, where he would move in to the distance necessary to get the background to the desired degree of softness, then take multiple overlapping images to get the right composition. I've done this a few times and it works pretty well.
Of course the elements in the image are a factor. But a lens with "poor" bokeh will rarely produce an image with smooth bokeh.
I once had a Leitz lens for my Leica III G that had such amazing bokeh it was hard to describe. Not only did it defocus smoothly, but somehow the optical engineers were able to build in a bit of contrast reduction.
The most interesting thing about this lens is that it had a 7 blade Iris with a non-circular shape. Somehow round highlights remained round and smooth-edged.
Jul 3, 2018 15:17:01 #
If photographers really want to fine tune bokeh, they can get one of Nikon's DC (defocus control) 105mm f/2.0 or 135mm f/2.0 lenses. I borrowed the Nikon 105mm DC from a member of my camera club once. It's awesome the control it gives you. It makes me want to purchase one now.
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