burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

One Rude Dawg Loc: Athol, ID

They used to pp all the time in the old days, it was called the dark room. Have fun.

russelray Loc: La Mesa CA

Even if one knows how to set up one's camera, one is left at the mercy of the digital camera's software programmers.

In my basic Canon 760D, I have settings for Auto, Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful, Monochrome, User Defined 1, User Defined 2, and User Defined 3. Under each setting I can change the Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, and Color tone. All of them were programmed by a computer programmer somewhere, and that computer programmer may or may not be a photographer. So what s/he likes, and programmed, might not be what I like.

I set the camera to take a flat, neutral picture, and then I make it into what I saw. After all, there's not a single camera in the world that can take the same picture that my eyes and brain saw. So, as Edgar Degas said about his art a hundred years ago: "Art is not what you see but what you make others see," I say, "Photography is not what you see but what you make others see." If it was all about what I saw, I wouldn't need a camera at all because my eyes and brain are the best camera ever.

And then we get to the cameras with our smart phones. Oh, Dear. What the hell does SOOC mean anymore? I believe my little Samsung Galaxy S8 camera has as at least as many editing functions as Photoshop had back in 2005. So my own personal opinion when someone starts shouting SOOC! is that they don't have a clue exactly what their camera is doing.

repleo Loc: Boston

As you said that is a lot of work. You will miss the shot if you have to do all of that. Anyway, reminds me of ‘paint-by-numbers’.

edrobinsonjr Loc: Boise, Idaho

I would not do any PP at all if I were the perfect photographer and owned the perfect camera but, alas...
Ed

jackpinoh Loc: Kettering, OH 45419

No if you are a documentary photographer that always exposes and composes his/her photos properly, is happy with the limited dynamic range of his/her camera, and is happy with the sharpness and colors of the out-of-camera images.

Yes if you want to show the scene as you remember, see an opportunity to remove distractions; want to increase the exposure of things in the shadows; want to focus the viewer's attention some aspect of the image; or correct for limitations of the of the camera/lens such as noise, limited dynamic range, color cast/shift, lens distortion, chromatic aberration, or vignetting.

srt101fan

You say that when you use camera settings to change contrast, saturation, etc you are at the mercy of camera software engineers. When you use a photo-editing program to change contrast, saturation, etc., aren't you at the mercy of their software engineers?

harly82fxr

I also asked about why do you use so much photo shop but I started going though some of my Fathers old black and white from his 2 1/4 3 1/4 speed graphic and he made all the lady happy he would stretch them out made there legs longer they looked good lol. So I was wrong even way back in the late 40s my father used his no how a loti haven't been taking pictures I miss it .but my hands are all messed up the palms of both hands are full of blisters and the pain is getting worse all the time I been to 3 skin and cancer doctors been to 4 md and they try antibiotics and it makes it worse makes it real bad. They want me to try Humira I said no way side affects are worse then what I have. i can post pictures I just no someone had to go though this I cant be the only one that had this. Help I just have ointment on hands and I don't want that on my camera

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

There is actually no such thing as "no post-processing".

If you shoot RAW, you MUST post-process for the image to be usable in any way.

If you shoot JPEGs, some post-processing is already being done to your images in-camera. All digital cameras capture a RAW image initially... always. But when the camera is set to save JPEG files, that RAW file is quickly post-processed by the camera, according to the various image processing settings of the camera (contrast, saturation, color/white balance, sharpening, noise reduction, etc.)

Further post-processing might be done to improve a JPEG, but it's limited because much of the original data that was captured was "thrown away" during the in-camera RAW conversion process.

But either way - RAW or JPEG - in actuality every digital image you ever make is being post-processed... it's really just a matter of whether that was done in-camera (with little control if you aren't very careful about your settings, tweaking them appropriately for each image) or being done in your computer.

Personally, I mostly shoot RAW and post-process in computer in order to have the greater control and versatility to make any necessary tweaks or adjustments. When I shoot JPEGs, I do minimal processing in-camera (and nearly always shoot RAW + JPEG anyway), so that I can further tweak images using my computer's larger, calibrated monitor.

I shoot between 25,000 and 50,000 image a year and don't think I've ever seen an image that didn't benefit from at least SOME post-processing. Maybe only a little (straightening, cropping, noise reduction, resizing, sharpening). Maybe a lot (curves, contrast, saturation, selective exposure adjustments, other retouching, etc.)



If you use "presets", you are at the mercy of whoever programmed them, regardless whether they are in the camera or in computer software. Someone somewhere has to design any automated setting to function in certain ways. Might work great! Or it might not. Just for example, "Program" auto exposure mode may on some cameras be sort of dumb and basic.... simply using some relatively high shutter speed and middle lens aperture, regardless of what focal length you're using or what type of photograph you're taking. In another camera it might be more sophisticated, tailoring the shutter speed to the focal length that's on the camera, choosing large apertures to be used with some lenses that are optimized for the purpose, or especially small apertures with others where maximum depth of field is commonly wanted (wide angles or macro)... even working with flash in certain, tailored ways.

And if you use even more automated presets, such as "Sports" or "Landscape" or "Portrait" mode, there are even more things that will be dictated by whoever programmed the camera.... It can bias shutter speed range or restrict the apertures used, plus limit your autofocus setup, frame rate, type of file that can be saved and more.

White balance modes are another thing that someone, somewhere has programmed how they will function in different situations. For example, with the cameras I use I generally like the way AWB works in broad daylight, both in full sun and on overcast days. But I find the way it works in shade on days when there are clear blue skies to be a little cooler than I like... and the way it works in tungsten light is WAY too warm! Those are both as a result of how someone decided it should handle those situations.... which may or may not be the way I want the situation handled. I don't find the various WB presets all that great, either. I don't know exactly what it uses, but for example if the Tungsten WB setting uses 3000K, that may or may not match the light in a given situation. So-called "warm white" bulbs seem to be all over the place, ranging from 2500K to 3200K. Plus I'm sure there is some individual variation and likely some color shift with age. I also don't use manually set WB, because it is only possible to adjust in 100K increments and because it really only sets the color temp.... the blue/yellow axis... it doesn't allow me to set the tint or green/magenta axis (that's possible with some cameras, but is a separate "tweak"). As a result I only use AWB and may have to adjust later in post-processing... or Custom WB. (Note: Color temp and tint settings at the time of capture are two things that ALL post-processing software "honors", even when images are shot RAW. Most other things set in camera are ignored unless using the camera manufacturer's own software "as shot". Contrast, saturation, sharpening, noise reduction, etc. are not automatically applied when images are shot RAW. And color temp and tint are completely "changeable", even though the software applies and uses them to display the RAW image preview.

The same things will be true if I use the "auto adjust" button or choose one of the various other presets in my post-processing software. The same with "profiles" and "actions" in those programs. These are all processes the image will go through that someone, somewhere programmed and that will do things to an image I may or may not like.

EDIT: By the way.... There was no such thing as "straight out of the camera" with film, either. The difference was that a lot of the time the film was sent off for processing by someone else, so we just never saw a large part of it. We left it up to someone else to to do the post-processing... to make all the adjustments and tweaks... unless we developed our own film. That was pretty easy with B&W... It was possible too, but a lot more difficult with color film. I remember lots of "all nighters" post-processing my film in a darkroom trying to meet a deadline!

The closest to "straight out of the camera" with film was slides (aka "transparencies"). Those were developed through a very rigid process that didn't allow for adjustment and ended up mounted in cardboard frames without any possible cropping. HOWEVER - other than direct viewing on a light box or projecting on a screen - in order to use a slide for anything required putting it through conversions that involved adjustments. It might be making an inter-negative to be able to print it really large... or digitizing for online display or various printing processes... or color separations for commercial printing processes. At any rate, it was "post-processing".

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

If you really think that, then you are not capable of rational thought. I - I repeat, I - control the settings in my camera - If you cannot or have not done so, at least you can relax in the knowledge that ignorance is bliss.

chapjohn Loc: Tigard, Oregon

RAW requires post-processing which in the digital world the same as developing is to film. I use Capture One Pro and Zoner Photo Studio.

There no such thing as SOOC. You make adjustments using your camera setting control to create the image the best you can. Doing this can help reduce the amount of time and actions in PP.

Those who claim SOOC is what the purest form of photography have not looked at what people like Ansel Adams did in the darkroom to PP his images.

Smudgey Loc: Ohio, Calif, Now Arizona

Absolutely yes, if you are not using PP, then you are missing half or more of the creative process.

safeman

Andy:
Developing and printing film is analogous to transferring files from your digital camera and viewing them on your computer monitor. Neither has anything to do with PP.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

Who are you telling? those who know less than you or those who know more?

3dees

I'm in the same boat. I have never shot raw and probably never will. don't know how and really don't care to learn. I'm pitiful with computers, but I know just enough of Elements to tweak my photo's. I was brought up with film and learned to get the shot right the first time. I am not a pro and do not sell my photo's. I just want something to hang on my wall. I have given my photo's to friends and family members and they don't seem to mind. of course they don't view photo's at 100%. I am not knocking raw shooters. I know the benefits of doing so. It's just not for me.