Rehess, I think I'm seeing something misleading here?
I'm certainly no optics expert but I can't begin to pretend to understand how one could add an adaptor to anything and increase it's light gathering abilities by two stops, from f1.2 to f.66? If anything its light gathering might DROP by two stops!
Now I can see that it might decrease the DOF to the equivalent of f.66 since it seems to be increasing the magnification by .5x.
But how can the distance to sensor be increased and the f-stop be increased? Add any distance between a lens and the Sensor and there is light drop-off, NOT light increase! Decrease the orifice and the same light decrease! Add both and it compounds. It's why Nikon can't make an AF f1.2 or faster lens!
This is very misleading. It seems to just be a controlled multiplier resulting in the DoF of an f.66 lens!!!
Maybe someone can explain this to me/us???
SS
gwilliams6 wrote:
Maybe a typo, I never said Sony was coming out with ANY f1.0 lenses (please repost where I said that) . There are Sony, Sigma, Samyang/Rokinon and other F1.4 E-Mount lenses, but no F1.0 lenses from Sony. F1.4 or F1.8 is fast enough.
And more Canon users than Nikon are switching to mirrorless because they can use great adapters like the MC-11 and keep their favorite Canon glass while getting the marked benefits of mirrorless cameras. Funny you should mention that Canon 200mm f1.8 lens ? A fellow Philadelphia-area pro and my best friend has the Canon 200mm f2 lens and switched from Canon to Sony a year before I did and uses his Canon 200mm f2 lens on his A7RII with the MC-11 adapter.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542292-REG/Canon_2297B002_Telephoto_EF_200mm_f_2L.html?ap=y&c3api=1876%2C193854673152%2C%2C&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8YXXBRDXARIsAMzsQuU-whGqOzpjvXk3b8JGQd3NyK9kpohOp35x5Og0-shAi8ML0QiFEPsaArS2EALw_wcB In fact this pro was the one who talked me into trying and then switching from Canon to Sony, as he had done, and I am glad he did. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFxbFJ9jdM&t=313sFrom Jason Lanier
Until you personally use these fullframe mirrorless cameras in different real-world situations ,you can never truly know why it gives more than any DSLR can ever physically give me. But hey, use what you like and be happy. I have extensively used both systems in my professional work, and I choose mirrorless. You might get interested in Canon's fullframe mirrorless when it comes out. It will be hard for you to diss that mirrorless camera over lens choices. LOL. Cheers
Maybe a typo, I never said Sony was coming out wit... (
show quote)
GW, maybe it wasn't you that said that about the 1.0 lens but someone said that somewhere back there in a reply.
I remember when people were saying that they were using Canon lenses on Sony cameras and they got BETTER and FASTER focus with the Sony than with the Canon!!! THAT is pretty unlikely!!!
BUT, a reason a Pro would NOT want to use a Canon/Sony combo is for the very reason that when you're having an issue with Either...., WHO you gonna call??? The ghost busters??? LoL
Canon will only help with the lens and I assume Sony with the camera. Your system would be orphaned. Who you gonna send it to for troubleshooting and getting work on, calibrations etc?
Why is it that every guy that's pushing Sony is a still shooter?
I can shoot a race car coming STRAIGHT at me(the most difficult of shots) at 100 mph and drop and roll and hold the shutter for one second and ALL 15 shots will be in focus! And you're telling me to switch???
I watched that uTube, NOT very convincing. I guess if all I shot are people walking around at birthday parties that might be a great set-up!
My Canon will do that as well.
What Canon camera was the last one that you used?
Also, add an adaptor and suddenly all your fast glass isn't so fast anymore! NO thanks!!!
Lets see if the 2020 games are a real eye opener, but so far they've been mostly a Canon games.
Like I said, for what I do, when Canon releases a ML 1Dx it should be ready for real action and speed....., not to mention all that beautiful glass.
SS
SharpShooter wrote:
GW, maybe it wasn't you that said that about the 1.0 lens but someone said that somewhere back there in a reply.
I remember when people were saying that they were using Canon lenses on Sony cameras and they got BETTER and FASTER focus with the Sony than with the Canon!!! THAT is pretty unlikely!!!
BUT, a reason a Pro would NOT want to use a Canon/Sony combo is for the very reason that when you're having an issue with Either...., WHO you gonna call??? The ghost busters??? LoL
Canon will only help with the lens and I assume Sony with the camera. Your system would be orphaned. Who you gonna send it to for troubleshooting and getting work on, calibrations etc?
Why is it that every guy that's pushing Sony is a still shooter?
I can shoot a race car coming STRAIGHT at me(the most difficult of shots) at 100 mph and drop and roll and hold the shutter for one second and ALL 15 shots will be in focus! And you're telling me to switch???
I watched that uTube, NOT very convincing. I guess if all I shot are people walking around at birthday parties that might be a great set-up!
My Canon will do that as well.
What Canon camera was the last one that you used?
Also, add an adaptor and suddenly all your fast glass isn't so fast anymore! NO thanks!!!
Lets see if the 2020 games are a real eye opener, but so far they've been mostly a Canon games.
Like I said, for what I do, when Canon releases a ML 1Dx it should be ready for real action and speed....., not to mention all that beautiful glass.
SS
GW, maybe it wasn't you that said that about the 1... (
show quote)
My last Canon cameras were fullframe 1DMkII, 5DMkIV, and APS-C size 7DMkII. So I had up to 14 fps with the 1D which was a beast. But way too expensive when compared to an A9 with 20fps (without missing any focus ,as it is able to do 60 exposure and 60 autofocus adjustments per second which is unmatched by any Canon including 1D) and A7RIII and A7III with 10 fps (without missing any focus). And BTW top Sony cameras like the A9 and A7III have 695 focus spots covering 93% of the frame. NO Canon camera comes even close to that focus coverage, so I have a better shot at following the race car all the way across the frame in AF-C than any Canon camera. I have shot all fast sports and there is NOTHING a Canon DSLR (at any price) can do better than the top Sony mirrorless can also do AND do other things better.
Hey I don't really care if you switch and I am not telling or even asking you to switch. Use what you like, please.
But unlike you, I have extensively used BOTH top DSLR and top Mirrorless systems, and for me the mirrorless system I have now is better in many ways. There are simply too many features that NO DSLR can ever physically have. That is why folks ARE switching, and that is why Canon and Nikon are spending millions developing their own professional fullframe mirrorless cameras.
We will see if Nikon and Canon's first pro fullframe mirrorless offerings will match the best fullframe mirrorless out there at that time. Sony is always updating and pushing the envelop with each new release, not like the drip, drip of small advances from Canon.
FYI adding an MC-11 adapter to a Canon lens for Sony does not make it any slower in still focusing (Many testers have shown that) .And there is no glass in the MC-11 adapter and no loss of any light or f-stops when using it. The adapted Canon glass IS slower in video focusing. I have transition from my Canon glass to native Sony glass and Sigma glass which focuses as fast as native E-mount glass. Sony's amazing focus system ,including Eye-AF in their latest A9, A7RIII and A7III is as fast and faster as anything else available. Show me any pro tester that shows Canon focusing faster or more accurately than a A9 or A7III, you won't find any.
It is understandable for Canon and Nikon DSLR users who are happy with their gear to defend their choices in gear. I was a loyal proponent of Nikon and Canon top-end pro SLRS and DSLRs for 40 years. But once I had actually tried and used the top Sony fullframe mirrorless systems it was a no-brainer to switch. And I would never go back to that bulky mirrorbox with its outdated tech. I shoot both stills and video and Nikon And Canon have a ways to go to design a single camera that does fusion as well as mirrorless cameras do. Cheers
tinplater wrote:
They were all at the Renaissance Fair. Not a big clunky long lensed SLR in sight. Did see a few Leicas too.
There is a joke in there somewhere and I just can't figure it out.
rehess
Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
SharpShooter wrote:
Rehess, I think I'm seeing something misleading here?
I'm certainly no optics expert but I can't begin to pretend to understand how one could add an adaptor to anything and increase it's light gathering abilities by two stops, from f1.2 to f.66? If anything its light gathering might DROP by two stops!
Now I can see that it might decrease the DOF to the equivalent of f.66 since it seems to be increasing the magnification by .5x.
But how can the distance to sensor be increased and the f-stop be increased? Add any distance between a lens and the Sensor and there is light drop-off, NOT light increase! Decrease the orifice and the same light decrease! Add both and it compounds. It's why Nikon can't make an AF f1.2 or faster lens!
This is very misleading. It seems to just be a controlled multiplier resulting in the DoF of an f.66 lens!!!
Maybe someone can explain this to me/us???
SS
Rehess, I think I'm seeing something misleading he... (
show quote)
A Q-mount is roughly 25mm in diameter, so any adapter from a FF mount to the Q-mount will have the form of a funnel, but most of the adapters just throw away most of the light - they use only the light going thru the narrow cylinder that ends in the Q-mount mouth. The Metabones adapter has lenses that concentrate the light, so most of the light coming thru the wide FF mouth squeeze down to the Q-mouth at the other end. That is why the focal length is reduced .... and the aperture acts as though it is wider, because it really does deliver a higher density beam at the end than it started with - sort of a lower intensity version of using a magnifying glass to start fires.
...
OEM K-to-Q adapter on left; third party K-to-Q adapter on right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY5tzBJZibcJared Polin discusses the Sony A9 vs A7RIII vs A7III and tells what features they have, including what the Sonys can do better than ANY DSLR, as well as what he likes better on Canon and Nikon. BTW Jared is NOT sponsored by Sony and is a longtime Nikon and Canon user, but reviews and uses all types of gear.
Maybe "pedaling" their wares elsewhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nBx_O5ip0kThe switch to SONY is COMPLETE! - What have I bought and sold?
Dave McKeegan switches from Canon DSLR to Sony Mirrorless and talks about what he kept and what he sold. He then adds up the weight of his Canon system and its equivalent Sony system and it is half the weight. The weight savings is not just a myth, let alone the advantages of the Sony cameras. Cheers
Now that I own a Mirrorless I know why you didn't see any. They are so darn small they're hard to see.
rmorrison1116 wrote:
Now that I own a Mirrorless I know why you didn't see any. They are so darn small they're hard to see.
Or too busy chimping his shots...
SharpShooter wrote:
Rehess, I think I'm seeing something misleading here?
I'm certainly no optics expert but I can't begin to pretend to understand how one could add an adaptor to anything and increase it's light gathering abilities by two stops, from f1.2 to f.66? If anything its light gathering might DROP by two stops!
Now I can see that it might decrease the DOF to the equivalent of f.66 since it seems to be increasing the magnification by .5x.
But how can the distance to sensor be increased and the f-stop be increased? Add any distance between a lens and the Sensor and there is light drop-off, NOT light increase! Decrease the orifice and the same light decrease! Add both and it compounds. It's why Nikon can't make an AF f1.2 or faster lens!
This is very misleading. It seems to just be a controlled multiplier resulting in the DoF of an f.66 lens!!!
Maybe someone can explain this to me/us???
SS
Rehess, I think I'm seeing something misleading he... (
show quote)
It’s not misleading. Here’s a link including the white paper that explains how and why it works:
https://petapixel.com/2013/01/14/metabones-announces-revolutionary-adaptor-makes-ff-lenses-faster-and-wider/As you can see, this is pretty old technology.
gwilliams6 wrote:
My last Canon cameras were fullframe 1DMkII, 5DMkIV, and APS-C size 7DMkII. So I had up to 14 fps with the 1D which was a beast. But way too expensive when compared to an A9 with 20fps (without missing any focus ,as it is able to do 60 exposure and 60 autofocus adjustments per second which is unmatched by any Canon including 1D) and A7RIII and A7III with 10 fps (without missing any focus). And BTW top Sony cameras like the A9 and A7III have 695 focus spots covering 93% of the frame. NO Canon camera comes even close to that focus coverage, so I have a better shot at following the race car all the way across the frame in AF-C than any Canon camera. I have shot all fast sports and there is NOTHING a Canon DSLR (at any price) can do better than the top Sony mirrorless can also do AND do other things better.
Hey I don't really care if you switch and I am not telling or even asking you to switch. Use what you like, please.
But unlike you, I have extensively used BOTH top DSLR and top Mirrorless systems, and for me the mirrorless system I have now is better in many ways. There are simply too many features that NO DSLR can ever physically have. That is why folks ARE switching, and that is why Canon and Nikon are spending millions developing their own professional fullframe mirrorless cameras.
We will see if Nikon and Canon's first pro fullframe mirrorless offerings will match the best fullframe mirrorless out there at that time. Sony is always updating and pushing the envelop with each new release, not like the drip, drip of small advances from Canon.
FYI adding an MC-11 adapter to a Canon lens for Sony does not make it any slower in still focusing (Many testers have shown that) .And there is no glass in the MC-11 adapter and no loss of any light or f-stops when using it. The adapted Canon glass IS slower in video focusing. I have transition from my Canon glass to native Sony glass and Sigma glass which focuses as fast as native E-mount glass. Sony's amazing focus system ,including Eye-AF in their latest A9, A7RIII and A7III is as fast and faster as anything else available. Show me any pro tester that shows Canon focusing faster or more accurately than a A9 or A7III, you won't find any.
It is understandable for Canon and Nikon DSLR users who are happy with their gear to defend their choices in gear. I was a loyal proponent of Nikon and Canon top-end pro SLRS and DSLRs for 40 years. But once I had actually tried and used the top Sony fullframe mirrorless systems it was a no-brainer to switch. And I would never go back to that bulky mirrorbox with its outdated tech. I shoot both stills and video and Nikon And Canon have a ways to go to design a single camera that does fusion as well as mirrorless cameras do. Cheers
My last Canon cameras were fullframe 1DMkII, 5DMkI... (
show quote)
Ditto here. It’s human nature for one to defend one’s choices. I still have both...but almost always grab the mirrorless. Most who give them a fair try, come away impressed. Others are free to criticize out of ignorance. And so it goes...
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