Comments requested – Upgrading from a Canon 5D to a Canon 6D Mark II or ???
May 16, 2018 11:39:58 #
Base_fiddle wrote:
I’ve been using my original Canon 5D EOS for a num... (show quote)
You'll be much better off with the M III, ok its older, but still much advanced compared to the 6 D and quite frankly, the sensor in the 6D is just a piece of crap, not worth a dime!
May 16, 2018 12:09:07 #
Of all the cameras mentioned in this thread you've spelled out all the qualifications for the 5D Mark IV, or the possible 7D Mark III. I can fully understand the money situation of the Mark IV, but you'll be getting a much better body than all the others in the mix. The frame rate eclipses even the 7D Mark II, and the Mark IV is full frame. As of date I have seen the Mark IV in refurbished, and in packages with a printer, grip, and other toys. There is also a market for BIF photos of certain birds, so selling photos can offer a price difference. I've found it is always cheaper to go first class when buying camera bodies for the particular job, versus just to get by. Take a look at "Canonpricewatch.com" to see what type of sales are going on. Wait if you have to get the price you want.
B
B
May 16, 2018 12:13:45 #
Bill Emmett wrote:
Of all the cameras mentioned in this thread you've... (show quote)
How does the 5DIV @ 7fps "eclipse" the 7DII @ 10fps?
I may have been a History teacher but the math here does not compute.
May 16, 2018 13:53:52 #
Bill Emmett wrote:
Of all the cameras mentioned in this thread you've... (show quote)
The frame rate even eclipses the 7D M II? Where did you hear this, its way slower than the 7D M II!!
May 16, 2018 13:57:38 #
robertjerl wrote:
How does the 5DIV @ 7fps "eclipse" the 7DII @ 10fps?
I may have been a History teacher but the math here does not compute.
I may have been a History teacher but the math here does not compute.
Plus you can probably get a 7D2 for 1/3 the $$$ or less of the 5D4 if cost is an issue which it is for most people...
May 16, 2018 16:03:42 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
The ISO and dynamic range performance of 5D Mark III and 6D Mark II are virtually identical.
The native ISO range of the 6DII is 100-40000, while the 5DIII's is 100-25600 (both are extendable to 50 and up to 102400).
The 26MP 6DII has slightly higher resolution than the 22MP 5DIII.
Frame rate is nearly identical: 6 fps in the 5DIII, 6.5 fps in the 6DII.
The 5DIII uses a 61 point AF system similar to the 1DX's (but not supported by a separate chip, the way the 1D-series camera AF systems are). 41 of the 5DIII's AF points are the higher performance "cross type". The camera can autofocus an f/8 lens/teleconverter combo, but I think that's only possible at the center AF point.
The 6DII uses a 45-point AF system quite similar to what was introduced on the 80D and is now also used in other APS-C models. All 45 points are cross type. And up to 27 of them are "f/8 capable" (depends upon the lens being used). One complaint I've heard is that Canon didn't seem to "scale up" the AF array very much, to match the full frame format of the 6DII.... and as a result the AF point cluster is somewhat centered. But other than that, it seems good performing. (Both cameras' viewfinder based AF systems are MUCH better than the original 6D's or your original 5D's).
The 5DIII's autofocus is rated to -2EV light levels, if I recall correctly. The 6DII's is rated even lower, to -3EV (approx. moonlight). The original 6D was rated the same, but could only do so at the center AF point. I think the 6DII is able to do so at more points (all? 27? I don't know).
The 6DII has Dual Pixel AF in Live View, which is much faster than the contrast detection used on earlier models including the 5DIII (an your camera).
5DIII has a 100% viewfinder.... while the 6DII's is 98%.
6DII has an articulated Touch Screen LCD (first full frame Canon to have this).... the 5DIII's LCD is very slightly larger, but is fixed and isn't Touch type.
5DIII has a higher specification shutter..... Top speed 1/8000 versus 1/4000 on 6DII. Also the 5DIII's flash sync is 1/200, while the 6DII's is 1/180.
The 5DIII's shutter is rated to 150,000 actuations. I haven't seen stats for the 6DII's, but it's probably rated to be good for 100,000 clicks (same as the original 6D).
5DIII has dual memory card slots (one CF, one SD), while the 6DII only has one (SD).
The 5DIII has a PC sync port to connect to off camera strobes. The 6DII doesn't.
As you noted, the 6DII has wireless connectivity and GPS, which the 5DIII doesn't.
Both cameras can shoot HD video. The 5DIII has a port for headphones. The 6DII doesn't. (If video is important to you, research it some more. I don't use it and know little about it.)
The 6DII and other recent Canon models (7D Mark II and later) have Anti-Flicker feature. This helps noticeably with accurate exposure when shooting under fluorescent and certain other types of lighting. Those lights cycle on and off rapidly... 60 hz in the US.... and tend to cause a lot of exposure problems with cameras that don't have this feature. When Anti-Flicker is enabled, the camera detects the cycling of the lights and times the shutter release to the peak output. I can tell you from experience that it works! Where I used to have to take lots of extra shots under FL or sodium vapor and some other types of lights, because I knew that around half of them would be poorly exposed... Now using Anti-Flicker I only rarely see an under-exposed image. While it changes the timing of the shutter release, it's usually so little, just a small fraction of a second and you rarely notice it in use.
Both camera use the same LP-E6 series battery. The 6DII is rated for a few more shots per charge.... However, it was tested with slightly higher capacity LP-E6N, while the 5DIII was tested with the earlier, slightly lower capacity LP-E6.
Both cameras also have self-cleaning sensors. You will probably LOVE that feature, because you'll need to clean the sensor FAR less often! In fact, because I often have to shoot in dusty conditions I avoided buying an original 5D because of its reputation as sort of a "dust magnet". I was already doing enough sensor cleaning with my 30Ds! But all the later models I've used (mostly 5DII, 50D, 7D, 7DII) have had self-cleaning sensors. Where I used to have to clean my sensors every month or two, now with the self-cleaning sensors I sometimes only need to do a cleaning once or twice a year! It's another feature that I wouldn't want to be without, after using it! The sensor self-cleaning can be run any time you wish... or set to run whenever you turn the camera on or off.
Does your 5D have a "joystick" to control AF point selection? I don't recall. The 5DIII does (and its battery grip even has a second one). The 6DII doesn't use a joystick. Instead it has a multi-direction button (like the 80D).
Either camera would be a very nice upgrade for you. To decide between them, just pick the features that are most important to you.
HOWEVER, I have to agree with some of the other responses....
FOR BIF IN PARTICULAR... I would almost always choose an APS-C camera over full frame like 5D/6D-series.
7D Mark II would be a much better choice: 20MP, 10 frames per second, very high performance 65-point AF, dual memory card slots and more. In fact, 7DIi is similar to 5DIII/IV.
80D wouldn't be a bad choice either: 24MP, 7 fps, high performance 45-point AF (same as in 6DII). 80D is similar to 6DII.
But MAINLY, on a Canon APS-C camera a 300mm lens "acts like" 500mm lens would on your full frame camera. My EF 300mm f/4L IS weight less than 3 lb. and I can shoot hand holding it all day long (often do). In contrast, my EF 500mm f/4 IS lens weighs about 8 lb. and I wouldn't try to hand hold it for more than a few minutes. After that, it goes onto a sturdy tripod with a gimbal head (another 9 lb.. to carry around). Not to mention, there's a big difference in price! The last couple years, I've also been using Canon excellent 100-400mm II.... which on my APS-C cameras acts like a 160-640mm would on your full frame camera.
Sure, you can crop down a full frame image to achieve similar effect as the APS-C camera... BUT, if you do so you've pretty much defeated the whole purpose of the full frame camera. Cropped to APS-C sze, only about 10MP will remain from a 6DII's 26MP image. Or, the same crop to a 5DIII's 22MP image would leave less than 9MP. In contrast, 7DII will capture 20MP and 80D will render 24MP in the same area..... either of which will make for much better image quality.
So I'd suggest you consider one of the crop cameras instead. 7DII cost is about $1350, a little less than either of those FF cameras... . 80D would be lower priced, typically just under $1000. I really think you'd be happier with an APS-C.... and the way it makes telephotos "more powerful", which can be very handy when photographing birds. Your current lenses will work fine on these cameras, too. Plus you might keep your 5D for some other purposes.
The native ISO range of the 6DII is 100-40000, while the 5DIII's is 100-25600 (both are extendable to 50 and up to 102400).
The 26MP 6DII has slightly higher resolution than the 22MP 5DIII.
Frame rate is nearly identical: 6 fps in the 5DIII, 6.5 fps in the 6DII.
The 5DIII uses a 61 point AF system similar to the 1DX's (but not supported by a separate chip, the way the 1D-series camera AF systems are). 41 of the 5DIII's AF points are the higher performance "cross type". The camera can autofocus an f/8 lens/teleconverter combo, but I think that's only possible at the center AF point.
The 6DII uses a 45-point AF system quite similar to what was introduced on the 80D and is now also used in other APS-C models. All 45 points are cross type. And up to 27 of them are "f/8 capable" (depends upon the lens being used). One complaint I've heard is that Canon didn't seem to "scale up" the AF array very much, to match the full frame format of the 6DII.... and as a result the AF point cluster is somewhat centered. But other than that, it seems good performing. (Both cameras' viewfinder based AF systems are MUCH better than the original 6D's or your original 5D's).
The 5DIII's autofocus is rated to -2EV light levels, if I recall correctly. The 6DII's is rated even lower, to -3EV (approx. moonlight). The original 6D was rated the same, but could only do so at the center AF point. I think the 6DII is able to do so at more points (all? 27? I don't know).
The 6DII has Dual Pixel AF in Live View, which is much faster than the contrast detection used on earlier models including the 5DIII (an your camera).
5DIII has a 100% viewfinder.... while the 6DII's is 98%.
6DII has an articulated Touch Screen LCD (first full frame Canon to have this).... the 5DIII's LCD is very slightly larger, but is fixed and isn't Touch type.
5DIII has a higher specification shutter..... Top speed 1/8000 versus 1/4000 on 6DII. Also the 5DIII's flash sync is 1/200, while the 6DII's is 1/180.
The 5DIII's shutter is rated to 150,000 actuations. I haven't seen stats for the 6DII's, but it's probably rated to be good for 100,000 clicks (same as the original 6D).
5DIII has dual memory card slots (one CF, one SD), while the 6DII only has one (SD).
The 5DIII has a PC sync port to connect to off camera strobes. The 6DII doesn't.
As you noted, the 6DII has wireless connectivity and GPS, which the 5DIII doesn't.
Both cameras can shoot HD video. The 5DIII has a port for headphones. The 6DII doesn't. (If video is important to you, research it some more. I don't use it and know little about it.)
The 6DII and other recent Canon models (7D Mark II and later) have Anti-Flicker feature. This helps noticeably with accurate exposure when shooting under fluorescent and certain other types of lighting. Those lights cycle on and off rapidly... 60 hz in the US.... and tend to cause a lot of exposure problems with cameras that don't have this feature. When Anti-Flicker is enabled, the camera detects the cycling of the lights and times the shutter release to the peak output. I can tell you from experience that it works! Where I used to have to take lots of extra shots under FL or sodium vapor and some other types of lights, because I knew that around half of them would be poorly exposed... Now using Anti-Flicker I only rarely see an under-exposed image. While it changes the timing of the shutter release, it's usually so little, just a small fraction of a second and you rarely notice it in use.
Both camera use the same LP-E6 series battery. The 6DII is rated for a few more shots per charge.... However, it was tested with slightly higher capacity LP-E6N, while the 5DIII was tested with the earlier, slightly lower capacity LP-E6.
Both cameras also have self-cleaning sensors. You will probably LOVE that feature, because you'll need to clean the sensor FAR less often! In fact, because I often have to shoot in dusty conditions I avoided buying an original 5D because of its reputation as sort of a "dust magnet". I was already doing enough sensor cleaning with my 30Ds! But all the later models I've used (mostly 5DII, 50D, 7D, 7DII) have had self-cleaning sensors. Where I used to have to clean my sensors every month or two, now with the self-cleaning sensors I sometimes only need to do a cleaning once or twice a year! It's another feature that I wouldn't want to be without, after using it! The sensor self-cleaning can be run any time you wish... or set to run whenever you turn the camera on or off.
Does your 5D have a "joystick" to control AF point selection? I don't recall. The 5DIII does (and its battery grip even has a second one). The 6DII doesn't use a joystick. Instead it has a multi-direction button (like the 80D).
Either camera would be a very nice upgrade for you. To decide between them, just pick the features that are most important to you.
HOWEVER, I have to agree with some of the other responses....
FOR BIF IN PARTICULAR... I would almost always choose an APS-C camera over full frame like 5D/6D-series.
7D Mark II would be a much better choice: 20MP, 10 frames per second, very high performance 65-point AF, dual memory card slots and more. In fact, 7DIi is similar to 5DIII/IV.
80D wouldn't be a bad choice either: 24MP, 7 fps, high performance 45-point AF (same as in 6DII). 80D is similar to 6DII.
But MAINLY, on a Canon APS-C camera a 300mm lens "acts like" 500mm lens would on your full frame camera. My EF 300mm f/4L IS weight less than 3 lb. and I can shoot hand holding it all day long (often do). In contrast, my EF 500mm f/4 IS lens weighs about 8 lb. and I wouldn't try to hand hold it for more than a few minutes. After that, it goes onto a sturdy tripod with a gimbal head (another 9 lb.. to carry around). Not to mention, there's a big difference in price! The last couple years, I've also been using Canon excellent 100-400mm II.... which on my APS-C cameras acts like a 160-640mm would on your full frame camera.
Sure, you can crop down a full frame image to achieve similar effect as the APS-C camera... BUT, if you do so you've pretty much defeated the whole purpose of the full frame camera. Cropped to APS-C sze, only about 10MP will remain from a 6DII's 26MP image. Or, the same crop to a 5DIII's 22MP image would leave less than 9MP. In contrast, 7DII will capture 20MP and 80D will render 24MP in the same area..... either of which will make for much better image quality.
So I'd suggest you consider one of the crop cameras instead. 7DII cost is about $1350, a little less than either of those FF cameras... . 80D would be lower priced, typically just under $1000. I really think you'd be happier with an APS-C.... and the way it makes telephotos "more powerful", which can be very handy when photographing birds. Your current lenses will work fine on these cameras, too. Plus you might keep your 5D for some other purposes.
May 16, 2018 16:55:32 #
The other advantage of either the 7D2 or the 5D3 is build quality and weather sealing. Both are metal bodies, built like tanks and weather sealed to some extent - much more rugged cameras than the 6D or 6D2 (which are nice cameras, but not built for the heavy, all weather use of the 7D2 or 5D3).
May 16, 2018 19:21:19 #
The 7DII is a tank of a camera. Shoot a lot of sports and this is the best body I own for sports both indoor and outdoor. The 10 FPS is a plus. Paired outdoor use a Canon 70-200 f4 L lens, indoor use a Tamron 70-200F2.8 (and if needed a 1.4X extender, which I use) . I have a 5D and late last year sent it to Canon for a "tune-up" cleaning etc. as it had almost 100,000 clicks on it. It didn't need any replacement parts (thank god) but it got a clean bill of health, to me it was worth the money to get it tuned up. Canon repair let me know every step of the way what they were doing. They also sent back with the checkup the actual click count on the camera. IMO the 7dII or the 5DIII are both excellent camera bodies and would service your needs. Don't think you will be as satisfied with the 6DII.
May 16, 2018 19:28:51 #
I suggest looking at the 7D II. I used it for my Birding camera and was very happy with it. I used it with the Canon 100-400mm II and loved that combo.
May 16, 2018 20:51:23 #
leftj wrote:
5D MIII released in 2002? I don't think so.
Leftj - you are correct - the 5D Mark III was released in 2012 - my typing error.
Jose
May 16, 2018 21:15:01 #
[quote=JPringle]I like to try and capture BIF, but have a bit of an interest in other stuff as well. And I buy used...For what its worth, I was using a 60D and upgraded to the 6D a while back. I found an upgrade path to a suitable 6DII recently, but decided to keep the 6D and get an 80D instead and saved a few dollars. ]
Phil, thanks for your thoughts. From reading that I've done, UTubes reviews that I've watched, and comments made regarding this post, it sounds like there are similarities to the 80D and 6DII. I'm also starting to think that since the 5D MIV is more than what I want to spend and the 5D MIII is too old/long in the tooth, that adding a 6D MII might give me better photo power/capability when I use the both the 5D and 6D MII. Selene03 didn't think that the 6D MII would be good for BIF, but SharpShooter thinks that the 6D MII is 10x better than my 5D. So why wouldn't it be better for BIF shots? Robert Teri thinks that the 6D MII will do a better job on BIF, than my 5D. That might be because of the improved sensor and AF system. I am NOT a professional or semi-professional photographer, but a person who wants to capture a scene with a camera that will take a good picture.
I'm also thinking that as the 5D MIV becomes more affordable, I would have the ability to upgrade my 5D while still using a 6D MII. The open question in my mind is will the 6D MII handle my BIF pictures?
Jose
Phil, thanks for your thoughts. From reading that I've done, UTubes reviews that I've watched, and comments made regarding this post, it sounds like there are similarities to the 80D and 6DII. I'm also starting to think that since the 5D MIV is more than what I want to spend and the 5D MIII is too old/long in the tooth, that adding a 6D MII might give me better photo power/capability when I use the both the 5D and 6D MII. Selene03 didn't think that the 6D MII would be good for BIF, but SharpShooter thinks that the 6D MII is 10x better than my 5D. So why wouldn't it be better for BIF shots? Robert Teri thinks that the 6D MII will do a better job on BIF, than my 5D. That might be because of the improved sensor and AF system. I am NOT a professional or semi-professional photographer, but a person who wants to capture a scene with a camera that will take a good picture.
I'm also thinking that as the 5D MIV becomes more affordable, I would have the ability to upgrade my 5D while still using a 6D MII. The open question in my mind is will the 6D MII handle my BIF pictures?
Jose
May 16, 2018 21:22:44 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
I read that as a typo and mentally updated to 2012 when reading. But, it does raise the question of support life to repair and / or cleaning support may be a consideration to the photographer.
CHG_CANON - you hit the nail on the head...my fear is buying an older, albeit better 5D MIII, but having the rug pulled out from under me when I wanted service. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME LAST YEAR WHEN I TRIED TO HAVE MY 5D CLEANED BY CANON - THEY REFUSED. So if I buy an older, but better camera, will the same thing happen next year or the year after? Too many uncertainties make me skeptical about buying older technology. If I wanted older technology, I might go back to my film-based Canon Pellix, which was unique in it's day.
Jose
May 16, 2018 21:28:56 #
Picture Taker wrote:
I have the 5DIV and the 7DII I find them both great cameras I will generally keep the Tamron 28-300mm on the 7D and the Canon 24 - 40mm on my 5D and found the best for me. So if you get the 7DII and keep the 5D you cover the gamut. The 7 D gave me the the reach as the 28-300mm is about 45mm to 480mm. The 7DII is a great birding set up with the Tamron. It's fast and sharp.
Picture Taker - it sound like you are doing what I am considering as an option - two cameras with different lens for different shots. I haven't read enough about the 7D II, so I'll have to learn more. Thanks for your comment.
Jose
May 16, 2018 21:35:41 #
As I suggest earlier I really think the 7D2 or 7D3 when it arrives would be better for birds in flight with the current lenses you have because it will allow you to get better images from the same distance because of the narrower field of view the crop sensor body. It seems you can never have enough lens to pull in birds. On a full frame camera a good size bird can be quite small in the frame even at 100 feet with a 400mm lens. It also is higher frame rate and I possibly a better focusing system. It is also better built and weather sealed I suspect. If you want to experience a real challenge to shooting birds in flight try shooting seagulls. They are fairly fast moving and certainly don't always fly in predictable lines. They will challenge your skills and the ability of your camera to track and maintain focus. It is an interesting exercise from my experience. This is one I took in Florida earlier this year and it is cropped quite a lot...
Best,
Todd Ferguson
[quote=Base_fiddle]
Best,
Todd Ferguson
[quote=Base_fiddle]
JPringle wrote:
I like to try and capture BIF, but have a bit of a... (show quote)
May 16, 2018 21:45:54 #
Hi there, I know I said the 6ds were not that great for bif, but, and this is a big but, I was primarily thinking of the 6d in comparison to my 5d mk iv. I really haven't used the 6d ii, so I would take sharpshooter's word over anything I wrote. As different individuals laid out the comparisons, I think you might do fine with the 6d II. I might have upgraded to the 6d II had the 5 d mk iv not come out earlier, so I think you might be right that it could be a great camera for you.
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