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Help deciding on next camera
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Mar 30, 2018 17:29:20   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
tdekany wrote:
I use the 64mp raw files only. You know it shoots both. The quality beats FF. I’ve read several times that many product photographers switch from medium format to use the Olympus hi res feature for work. Love my EM5 (well, I love both my cameras)

Have a pro friend who shoots almost all of his stuff with Olympus.
Does a lot of documentary work in 3rd-world countries where a smaller camera is less conspicuous.
He got me interested in m4/3rds- I bought a Panny GX-1 then an Olympus E-M1 (MK I), but found the menu system was not very intuitive to me.
I do miss a lot of things about that camera.
A jewel in build quality.

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Mar 30, 2018 18:22:45   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
NelsonARowe wrote:
At this time I have been looking at the Sony A7riii and the Olympus OMD E mii but that’s just initial research. Would a 42mp sensor be twice as good as a 20 or 24mp ? Or is this beyond the range of the human eye until you blow it up to an extremely large print ? I sometimes wonder if they are just doing new things because they can and then get to charge more for it 😂 even though it doesn’t necessarily matter.


If you are only going to look at pictures on a screen or tablet, it does not matter. If you take that killer waterfall picture and want to hang it on your wall, then a 24 Mp will support a 20x60 max size, and the A7RIII will work just fine. As an alternative, since the trip is a ways off, look at the A7III which is about to be released. A full frame body for $2000, which I am sure will be available with a 2 lens kit. With Sony you have the added bonus of 3rd party lenses from Sigma and probably Tokina.

Olympus I am afraid is more of a niche manufacturer without the 3rd party support that you will get from Sony.

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Mar 30, 2018 18:34:34   #
coj Loc: NJ, USA
 
jackpinoh wrote:
Unless you are printing very large prints (bigger than 13x19), you don't need more than 16Mp. If your budget is $3,000, you should NOT be looking at either the A7Riii or the OM-D E-M1 Mk2. A system is only as good as its weakest link. It makes no sense to buy a top end camera and put cheap lenses on it or buy a cheap tripod. And you should be looking at the total camera system: camera, lenses, tripod, extra battery, SD cards, bag. With either of the cameras you mentioned, the system (with two or three quality lenses and a good tripod and tripod head) will cost $6,000 to $10,000. If you skimp on any of the key elements of the system (camera, lenses, tripod), image quality will suffer accordingly. You can probably should put together a balanced system based on the E-M5 Mk2 ($1,100) or the E-M10 Mk3 ($650). That is what I would do with a $3,000 budget.
Unless you are printing very large prints (bigger ... (show quote)


I would add to that .... put the most money into lenses and a good tripod. Good glass on a cheaper camera will look great!

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Mar 30, 2018 23:42:06   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
Have a pro friend who shoots almost all of his stuff with Olympus.
Does a lot of documentary work in 3rd-world countries where a smaller camera is less conspicuous.
He got me interested in m4/3rds- I bought a Panny GX-1 then an Olympus E-M1 (MK I), but found the menu system was not very intuitive to me.
I do miss a lot of things about that camera.
A jewel in build quality.


I just use the SCP. Simple. But that is what happens when a camera is as customizable as the EM1

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Mar 31, 2018 06:53:33   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
MT Shooter wrote:
Oh thats right, you're a mind reader!


You are wrong. He is right.

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Mar 31, 2018 08:11:50   #
markmmmm
 
Nikon D7100 w a Nikon 55-200mm zoom. You will be very happy. Might find the camera and lens both new for $1000 to $1200. Both used for $800 - $950.

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Mar 31, 2018 09:01:21   #
magpix Loc: St. Michaels, MD
 
Why not consider the Fuji X system with the very capable XT-20? Its 24mp APS-C sensor is between the size of Sony's full frame and the Olympus, and most of Fuji's lenses are small....all are very sharp. You can then have a high performance system within your budget. A perfect travel kit would be the XT-20, 18-55mm f/2.8-4, 10-24mm f/4 and 55-200 f 3.5/4.5, and the retail cost of everything is less than $2900. (Each lens is stabilized.) Add a polarizing filter and a couple ND's, extra batteries, a sling camera bag, travel tripod and you'll be ready for a trip around the world. I shoot with a comparable Fuji kit for magazines and regularly print high res 17 x 25" prints. If you are sold on either the Sony or Olympus, I'd go with the Olympus, mainly because their lenses are much better balanced with the Olympus bodies and they are more reasonably priced than Sony.

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Mar 31, 2018 09:26:34   #
RKL349 Loc: Connecticut
 
Not sure I would classify an Olympus OMD E series camera full frame.

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Mar 31, 2018 11:09:36   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
NelsonARowe wrote:
I will be taking a trip to Iceland next summer (2019) that’s a photography workshop. I am interested in a full frame that has good weather resistance and a good selection of lenses. Preferably the lenses I would like to buy would be used or refurbished to save on price but I might buy new. I would want something that is a wide lens with great light capabilities because I will be shooting a lot in the early morning and night too. I would be doing more landscape photography than anything else. I would prefer keeping the weight down (mirrorless) but not apposed to a dslr if it’s going to give me better weather protection and lens choices. My budget for the setup would be $3,000 or close to it. I’m going to have plenty of time to learn the new one so that’s good. I would appreciate any suggestions you guys and girls have. Thanks.

At this time I have been looking at the Sony A7riii and the Olympus OMD E mii but that’s just initial research. Would a 42mp sensor be twice as good as a 20 or 24mp ? Or is this beyond the range of the human eye until you blow it up to an extremely large print ? I sometimes wonder if they are just doing new things because they can and then get to charge more for it 😂 even though it doesn’t necessarily matter.
I will be taking a trip to Iceland next summer (20... (show quote)


Olympus aren't "full frame". Far from it, in fact. They use the "micro four/thirds" (m4/3) sensors that are even smaller than APS-C. That allows Oly cameras and lenses to be quite compact... nice for travel. But the highest resolution m4/3 sensor to date is 20MP. The m4/3 sensor measures 21.6 x 17.3 millimeters, for a total are of 225 mm square. Compared to a so called "full frame" (24mm x 36mm = 860 mm sq.) and 20MP has nearly the same pixel density as 42MP full frame. Use a 2X lens factor to compare an Oly camera to a full frame model.

My suggestion... Get proper gear to protect the camera from rain or snow and use common sense. Plastic bags, rubber bands and some gaffer tape work pretty well! But there also a range of items made specifically for the purpose. Electronics and moisture simply don't get along very well. Don't rely upon manufacturer claims of "weather resistance"!

$3000 for a full frame setup with a decent lens kit? Good luck with that! That's really not very much for a full frame kit.

An a7R III is selling for $3200 and you'll also find Sony lenses tend to be among the more expensive... pricier than comparable Nikon or Canon. And while there are some third party lenses avail. for Sony, there are a lot more avail. for Canon and Nikon.

Currently the most affordable full frame are Nikon D610 (24MP, $1500), Pentax K1 (36MP, $1700), Nikon D750 (24MP, $1800) and Canon 6D Mark II (26MP, $1900.... note: the 20MP original 6D is still widely avail. new for around $1000-$1250).
More affordable Sony are their a7 II and a7 III (no "R") selling for about $1700 and $2000 respectively, both of which are 24MP cameras. I don't know the difference between these two Sony, if they are both still in production or if the III replaced the II.

The Pentax claims the highest weather resistance of the bunch, but doesn't have nearly as broad selection of lenses as Canon and Nikon (and there aren't a lot of third party lenses being offered to fit Pentax) but among the 14 full frame capable Pentax lenses there are 15-30mm f.2.8 ($1450), and 24-70mm f/2.8 ($1250) which are likely among the most desirable for landscape photography. There are some third party avail. from Tamron (70-200mm) and Sigma (70-300mm). Rokinon/Samyang offers some manual focus primes.

Canon 6D Mark II is the newest model among these. Canon themselves makes more than 60 full frame capable lenses. Among the Canon lenses, some of the more travel-friendly (size and weight), landscape photography lenses include their EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM ($1100), 24-70mm f/4L IS USM ($900) and 24-105mm f/4L IS USM II ($1100).

With Nikon you can choose between two lower cost full frame models currently being offered and will find selection of full frame capable lenses similar to Canon. For example, Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ($1100) and 24-120mm f/4G VR ($1100).

Sony has 16-35mm f/4 OSS ($1350), 24-70mm f/4 OSS ($1200) and 24-105mm f/4 OSS ($1300) lenses that might be good choices for you. Overall, Sony themselves offer about 40 full frame capable lenses, and there are around another 80 different ones made to fit Sony by various 3rd party manufacturers.

Note that some of the Nikon, Canon and Sony lenses have in-lens stabilization (Canon "IS" or Nikon "VR" or Sony "OSS"). Pentax uses in-camera stabilization instead. Sony has in-camera stabilization too... though I'm not sure if that's the case with the above models. But with either type of stabilization and the high ISO capabilities of the cameras, you probably won't need bigger, heavier, more expensive f/2.8 and faster lenses for landscape photography. In some cases f/4 lenses are sharper, too! The reason I included the Pentax f/2.8 lenses above is simply because there are no f/4 versions available.

If you want to use filters with your lenses, you also might consider that larger aperture lenses typically require bigger filters and that some like the Pentax 15-30mm have protruding, convex front lens elements that preclude using standard filters, require special filter holders, adapters (if available) and oversize filters. The same is true of Nikon 14-24mm and Canon 11-24mm, both which I omitted because they're almost certainly too pricey for your budget.

With both Canon and Nikon there are another 150 or so different lenses available from third party manufacturers. Some can be quite good and less expensive than OEM lenses, but with 3rd party there's always a little concern if the lens will work properly on a new camera model introduced 5 years from now... while with OEM you can be pretty sure it will. Note: All full frame capable "EF" Canon lenses made the past 30 years will fit and work on all Canon full frame cameras... no worries or compatibility issues. Similar with Nikon and even older Nikkor might work fine or partially, but Nikon has made numerous changes over the years so check lens/camera compatibility charts available at their website and elsewhere online. Canon "EF-S" lenses are crop only and won't work on FF. Their so-far small number of "EF-M" lenses for mirrorless cameras also aren't usable on the FF cameras. Nikon "DX" lenses will fit and work on their full frame cameras, but the cameras will automatically crop to APS-C format and with 24MP models like the above, you'll end up with 10MP images instead.

To save a little, Canon USA and Nikon USA both offer factory refurbished (often demo units with little real use) direct from their respective websites. Canon has done this for several years, so you won't find their refurbs at many retailers anymore, and they warrant their refurbs for the same 1 year as new. Nikon started selling refurbs directly just last year, so you still find some in other stores. They warrant their refurbs for 90 days, much like the major retailers do with used gear.

Have fun shopping!

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Mar 31, 2018 14:39:15   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
NelsonARowe wrote:
I will be taking a trip to Iceland next summer (2019) that’s a photography workshop. I am interested in a full frame that has good weather resistance and a good selection of lenses. Preferably the lenses I would like to buy would be used or refurbished to save on price but I might buy new. I would want something that is a wide lens with great light capabilities because I will be shooting a lot in the early morning and night too. I would be doing more landscape photography than anything else. I would prefer keeping the weight down (mirrorless) but not apposed to a dslr if it’s going to give me better weather protection and lens choices. My budget for the setup would be $3,000 or close to it. I’m going to have plenty of time to learn the new one so that’s good. I would appreciate any suggestions you guys and girls have. Thanks.

At this time I have been looking at the Sony A7riii and the Olympus OMD E mii but that’s just initial research. Would a 42mp sensor be twice as good as a 20 or 24mp ? Or is this beyond the range of the human eye until you blow it up to an extremely large print ? I sometimes wonder if they are just doing new things because they can and then get to charge more for it 😂 even though it doesn’t necessarily matter.
I will be taking a trip to Iceland next summer (20... (show quote)


Panasonic G9 fastest camera in da west!

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Mar 31, 2018 19:16:27   #
Kuzano
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
Not that it matters much but Olympus has THREE MKII bodies: the E-M1, E-M5 and the E-M10.
The E-M1 and E-M5 both have high rez modes, combining multiple exposures to form one higher rez image.


Point to be made here. The Sensor Shift modes for Hi rez, used by both Olympus and Pentax (Pentax calls it sensor shift) are only currently useful in static situations. The time it takes for the sensor to shift and take four (pentax) or eight (Olympus) captures and blend them into one does not allow for high shutter speeds. That is improving, but the first Hi Rez Olympus 40 Mp final image required about a two second shutter speed.

As I follow this technology I don't think you are going to be able to take the current Hi Rez technologies out in the field and shoot these camera's like you may be used to... No really high speed shutter usage.

The best explanation I have read on the two hi rez camera's... the Em5 II and the Em1 II, have been written by Robin Wong. Robin is an Olympus employee in Malaysia, and writes an extensive blog and reviews Olympus products.

I use the Hi Rez mode on the Em5 II because of the larger file and the static need for long shutter speed does not hamper shooting slides for digital conversion with a digital camera, a macro lens, and a bellows/light table.

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Mar 31, 2018 19:47:07   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Kuzano wrote:
Point to be made here. The Sensor Shift modes for Hi rez, used by both Olympus and Pentax (Pentax calls it sensor shift) are only currently useful in static situations. The time it takes for the sensor to shift and take four (pentax) or eight (Olympus) captures and blend them into one does not allow for high shutter speeds. That is improving, but the first Hi Rez Olympus 40 Mp final image required about a two second shutter speed.

As I follow this technology I don't think you are going to be able to take the current Hi Rez technologies out in the field and shoot these camera's like you may be used to... No really high speed shutter usage.

The best explanation I have read on the two hi rez camera's... the Em5 II and the Em1 II, have been written by Robin Wong. Robin is an Olympus employee in Malaysia, and writes an extensive blog and reviews Olympus products.

I use the Hi Rez mode on the Em5 II because of the larger file and the static need for long shutter speed does not hamper shooting slides for digital conversion with a digital camera, a macro lens, and a bellows/light table.
Point to be made here. The Sensor Shift modes for ... (show quote)


Let me make 3 points.

Robin no longer works for Olympus

Panasonic also uses the hi res mode in the new g9

Pentax came out with the mark2 version of their K1 - the hi res mode is usable hand held.

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Mar 31, 2018 19:51:31   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
PS: the hi res in the EM1 mark2, can compensate for light movements.

I suspect that the EM5 mark3 will finally be hand holdable using the hi res mode.

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Mar 31, 2018 20:13:36   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
repleo wrote:
The A7Riii alone would exceed your budget and leave nothing for lenses. The A7iii would be easier on your budget but still not enough for lenses.

If you think low light performance will be one of the more critical considerations look for a used A7Sii for around $1500 on eBay. Get the new Sony 24-105 F4.0 ($1300) as your main stay workhorse and if you have enough left over go for a used Rokinon FE14M-E 14mm F2.8 at about $220 on eBay - Total right around $3000. The A7Sii is only 12 mpx but has phenominal ISO performance. The 24-105 is a beautiful lens - sharp everywhere and most useful range. The Rokinon would cover your ultra wide needs or else use the 24-105 for panos on the wide shots.
The A7Riii alone would exceed your budget and leav... (show quote)


I have a Rokinon 12mm f/2 in the Fujifilm x mount. Sharp and fun to use.

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Mar 31, 2018 21:33:25   #
DeanS Loc: Capital City area of North Carolina
 
jackpinoh wrote:
Unless you are printing very large prints (bigger than 13x19), you don't need more than 16Mp. If your budget is $3,000, you should NOT be looking at either the A7Riii or the OM-D E-M1 Mk2. A system is only as good as its weakest link. It makes no sense to buy a top end camera and put cheap lenses on it or buy a cheap tripod. And you should be looking at the total camera system: camera, lenses, tripod, extra battery, SD cards, bag. With either of the cameras you mentioned, the system (with two or three quality lenses and a good tripod and tripod head) will cost $6,000 to $10,000. If you skimp on any of the key elements of the system (camera, lenses, tripod), image quality will suffer accordingly. You can probably should put together a balanced system based on the E-M5 Mk2 ($1,100) or the E-M10 Mk3 ($650). That is what I would do with a $3,000 budget.
Unless you are printing very large prints (bigger ... (show quote)


The Oly E-M1 MkII is on sale at present at $1600. Pair it with the Olyn12-100 (24 - 200 eq) at abt $1300 and you will have a very versatle package. The bodyncomes with a small mountable flash.

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