Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Some say you must always sharpen when you shoot raw... Don't
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
Mar 30, 2018 10:46:41   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
steveg48 wrote:
Bad advice.

Capture sharpening is needed any camera that uses a Bayer array (most cameras). It has nothing to do with whether the image is in focus.

Following is from: https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/image-sharpening.htm


(1) Capture sharpening aims to address any blurring caused by your image's source, while also taking image noise and detail into consideration. With digital cameras, such blurring is caused by the camera sensor's anti-aliasing filter and demosaicing process, in addition to your camera's lens. Capture sharpening is required for virtually all digital images, and may be applied automatically by the camera for photos which are saved as JPEG files. It also ensures the image will respond well to subsequent rounds of sharpening.
Bad advice. br br Capture sharpening is needed a... (show quote)

Noise: Sensor issue - Newer sensor are getting much better at it. Sharpening enhances it too.
Detail: Lens issue (and photographer's focusing choice)
AA Filter: Sensor issue - FAST disappearing in newer cameras.
Bayer's sensor issues are being dealt with IN CAMERA, during the analog to digital process. This process is getting better and better as is the creation of in camera JPGs, a format that despite its shortcoming is showing great strides toward quality.

You may want to update your information.

Were I not being able to present samples this would be all theory. Since I can improve almost any image with this method, it is not.

As said several times the raw apparent softness issue does not lie with sharpness but lack of local contrast which is tied to luminosity.

So please do explain why the image appears sharper after using a luminosity tweak instead of sharpening.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 10:55:05   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
If I reduce noise using Luminosity, I may sharpen things a bit for balance. Reducing noise seems to soften things a bit. Have to zoom in to 200% to see the effects, they're subtle.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 11:13:29   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
gvarner wrote:
If I reduce noise using Luminosity, I may sharpen things a bit for balance. Reducing noise seems to soften things a bit. Have to zoom in to 200% to see the effects, they're subtle.

Noise can be corrected using careful selection w/o softening of an image. Long ago I posted about this.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2018 11:47:11   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
I disagree. raw files all need sharpening. ALL of them. But to each his own. If you don't want to sharpen, then don't. If the rest of you people want to do the same. Fine. I'll sharpen all of mine.

Rongnongno wrote:
Either your image is in focus or it is not. Any sharpening will not add or improve anything at all.

Set ACR default sharpening to 0. Leave the color alone.

Use ACR clarity in small dose...

Open the image.
Duplicate the background
Transform onto a smart object
Set Blend mode to Luminosity
Push the clarity way up (about 50)
Decrease Saturation to 0.

If needed use a level layer.

That alone will create the sharpness you crave.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 11:57:49   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
If you don't want to try a new technique why even bother to post a reply.... if your happy with your output move on and maybe diss Chris a little. Ron is just offering another technique. I can recall a long ago post by Ron based on the clarity slider which made sense.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 11:59:26   #
Barbcity Loc: Berkeley, California
 
In adobe Lightroom and adobe camera raw there is a default sharpening of 25, not zero, for all raw images. Probably also a default sharpening for Nikon, Canon, Sony etc software too.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 11:59:26   #
Barbcity Loc: Berkeley, California
 
In adobe Lightroom and adobe camera raw there is a default sharpening of 25, not zero, for all raw images. Probably also a default sharpening for Nikon, Canon, Sony etc software too.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2018 12:00:12   #
Photowiz
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Either your image is in focus or it is not. Any sharpening will not add or improve anything at all.


What’s a level layer?

Set ACR default sharpening to 0. Leave the color alone.

Use ACR clarity in small dose...

Open the image.
Duplicate the background
Transform onto a smart object
Set Blend mode to Luminosity
Push the clarity way up (about 50)
Decrease Saturation to 0.

If needed use a level layer.

That alone will create the sharpness you crave.
Either your image is in focus or it is not. Any s... (show quote)

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 12:00:50   #
Photowiz
 
What’s a level layer?

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 12:04:08   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Either your image is in focus or it is not. Any sharpening will not add or improve anything at all.

Set ACR default sharpening to 0. Leave the color alone.

Use ACR clarity in small dose...

Open the image.
Duplicate the background
Transform onto a smart object
Set Blend mode to Luminosity
Push the clarity way up (about 50)
Decrease Saturation to 0.

If needed use a level layer.

That alone will create the sharpness you crave.

That may be good for one pic, but every pic need its own adjustments! You don't have layers in ACR!

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 12:12:56   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Barbcity wrote:
In adobe Lightroom and adobe camera raw there is a default sharpening of 25, not zero, for all raw images. Probably also a default sharpening for Nikon, Canon, Sony etc software too.


Don't you wish there wasn't? What is sharpening anyway other than an increased contrast between pixels make the dark side darker and the lightside lighter and it looks sharper. should everything be sharp? not really things with a definite edge sure but you wouldn't want a sharp cloud, even sharp edgy things like mountains several miles away should be a tad fuzzy and you don't want to over do edges either so it looks like its got a halo.

really sharpening is increasing local contrast where it is appropriate, clarity is mostly midtone contrast so will make things look sharper but maybe it needs to be applied selectively.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2018 12:13:47   #
photohelp
 
I would approach the issue differently. First, how the image will be used must be considered. Snapshots to be shown on a camera, tablet, web site, or small computer monitor generally do not need much sharpening outside the camera when taken by modern cameras with image stabilization and decent technique whether taken in RAW or jpeg. However, if the image is to be shown on a 4k TV, a high quality 30" monitor, or a larger print, then it must be reasonable sharp for most people's taste and tack sharp for pixel pushers. Second, if you are shooting in RAW, then you are already going through post processing, like with Adobe Camera Raw (ADR), and expect a higher quality image. I submit that no one shooting handheld can get all images perfectly sharp. Maybe the speed is too low because of low light, or the AF is not perfect, or the picture was rushed to capture the moment. Sometimes, those are the best images for composition or light. Sharpening in ADR is not only easy but is very effective. In addition, the luminosity feature in the sharpening tool can compensate for noise when the ISO was too high. I check every keeper photo at 100% and if it is not tack sharp, I use one or more of the tools in ADR to improve it, rather than the tools in Photoshop. Clarity and contrast can make small corrections, while under the sharpening section, Amount, Radius, Detail and Masking provide a wide range of tools which then need to be balanced with the Noise Reduction section of Luminance and Luminance Detail (I rarely find it necessary to use the other three). This generally takes me between 15 seconds and a minute, which is a small price to pay to get images that will look good regardless of how they are cropped or displayed. Of course, there is always the risk of over sharpening but being conservative and, when in doubt, checking at 200% can prevent that.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 12:22:47   #
russelray Loc: La Mesa CA
 
I adjust all of my DNG images based on what appeals to me, and what sells to my Clients. That ALWAYS includes sharpening.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 12:37:51   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
photohelp wrote:
I would approach the issue differently. First, how the image will be used must be considered. Snapshots to be shown on a camera, tablet, web site, or small computer monitor generally do not need much sharpening outside the camera when taken by modern cameras with image stabilization and decent technique whether taken in RAW or jpeg. However, if the image is to be shown on a 4k TV, a high quality 30" monitor, or a larger print, then it must be reasonable sharp for most people's taste and tack sharp for pixel pushers. Second, if you are shooting in RAW, then you are already going through post processing, like with Adobe Camera Raw (ADR), and expect a higher quality image. I submit that no one shooting handheld can get all images perfectly sharp. Maybe the speed is too low because of low light, or the AF is not perfect, or the picture was rushed to capture the moment. Sometimes, those are the best images for composition or light. Sharpening in ADR is not only easy but is very effective. In addition, the luminosity feature in the sharpening tool can compensate for noise when the ISO was too high. I check every keeper photo at 100% and if it is not tack sharp, I use one or more of the tools in ADR to improve it, rather than the tools in Photoshop. Clarity and contrast can make small corrections, while under the sharpening section, Amount, Radius, Detail and Masking provide a wide range of tools which then need to be balanced with the Noise Reduction section of Luminance and Luminance Detail (I rarely find it necessary to use the other three). This generally takes me between 15 seconds and a minute, which is a small price to pay to get images that will look good regardless of how they are cropped or displayed. Of course, there is always the risk of over sharpening but being conservative and, when in doubt, checking at 200% can prevent that.
I would approach the issue differently. First, how... (show quote)


I agree, as to how the file is to be used. When printing on canvas or art paper I sharpen because of the loose due to the texture. Another thing to consider is what is the sharpening set to in the camera. I have people that shoot with max sharpness set to #7 and I have mine set to #0. Other people when asked about in camera settings for sharpening don't have any idea about what I'm talking about. In PP I use Topaz DE Noise if needed and the last thing I do is to sharpen. I use ACR and a High Pass filter and adjust the sliders after all the parameters have been set. I will play with Ron's suggestion to add another "club" to my golf bag or whatever you call yours.

Reply
Mar 30, 2018 13:15:56   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
More than anything, I rely on good quality lenses and have them checked, adjusted, calibrated to produce a sharp image at their supposed focus point.
--Bob
Rongnongno wrote:
Either your image is in focus or it is not. Any sharpening will not add or improve anything at all.

Set ACR default sharpening to 0. Leave the color alone.

Use ACR clarity in small dose...

Open the image.
Duplicate the background
Transform onto a smart object
Set Blend mode to Luminosity
Push the clarity way up (about 50)
Decrease Saturation to 0.

If needed use a level layer.

That alone will create the sharpness you crave.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.