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Is there a visible difference between a raw file and a JPG?
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Mar 29, 2018 08:22:21   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Beside the obvious yes when it comes to potential and other things the difference is glaring if you compare a decoded raw file from the embedded JPG within the raw file.

I will wait a bit before posting the proof due to UHH MPD requirements (no image in the first post).

For those who cannot wait and use ACDSee or any other program that allows for switching from raw decode to JPG, check it by yourself - if you have not already done so.


I don't usually see you starting argumentative questions like this old standard. YES, they look different!

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Mar 29, 2018 08:22:37   #
johnec Loc: Lancaster county, PA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Under exposing in any format will enhance the noise*. Over exposure will reduce the noise -


Thanks

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Mar 29, 2018 08:28:32   #
Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Under exposing in any format will enhance the noise*. Over exposure will reduce the noise - IF done properly (ETTR/EBTR) -. Note the under or over exposure does not mean blowing either.

I personally have found that with the newer crop of cameras (D500 and D850) underexposure is less a noise issue than before as with the new invariant sensor technology we need to re-think exposure as a whole.

Newer cameras (Sony/Nikon among others) also have an incredible DR and to challenge one on that aspect is becoming much harder so ETTR and EBTR seems to be less relevant as time passes.

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* Same as high ISO
Under exposing in any format will enhance the nois... (show quote)


Shooting RAW, always underexpose the image by one f stop. From experience you will never be sorry when capturing detail is important. Overexposed is trash. You should never have a noise issue with an ISO of 400 and below. If you do, trash your camera and start over with a decent model. Good pros will bracket 3 rapid flash images. This is done to eliminate a blink rather than exposure, but it works for both.

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Mar 29, 2018 08:38:02   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
johnec wrote:
I have seen reference to this before about the preference of underexposing versus overexposing. Can someone explain why this is? Why can’t either be corrected in post? Thanks.


Blown highlights in over exposure cannot be recovered, under exposed areas can usually be brought out.

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Mar 29, 2018 08:38:56   #
O2Ra
 
To the original question “yes” as for the many reasons people have said. They will appear different in look. The Raw file stores so so much more info. Can you see with your naked eye the difference in stored info? Even if you were shown all the stored info in a Raw file I don’t believe our eyes can actually see the difference. We don’t have the ability to actually see all the stored info in a raw file vs a JEPG.

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Mar 29, 2018 08:45:02   #
MadburyDon
 
For an old timer it is sort of like always having your original negative when you had film...you can process the negative to a print, make some changes to a print then still have the negative. I like to always have the "negative" - the RAW

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Mar 29, 2018 09:00:47   #
peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA
 
An excellent raw image analyzer is "Raw Digger" http://www.rawdigger.com . Also "Fast Raw Viewer" at the same site. RawDigger is not a raw convertor. Instead, it allows you to see the data that will be used by raw convertors.

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Mar 29, 2018 09:11:28   #
johnec Loc: Lancaster county, PA
 
Brent Rowlett wrote:
Shooting RAW, always underexpose the image by one f stop.


Didn't know that. Thanks

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Mar 29, 2018 09:12:39   #
johnec Loc: Lancaster county, PA
 
Longshadow wrote:
Blown highlights in over exposure cannot be recovered, under exposed areas can usually be brought out.


Thanks much. That helps

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Mar 29, 2018 09:23:59   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
My understanding is that what we see in a RAW uncompressed file produced by a camera is its embedded JPEG, processed only by the camera settings that are necessary to produce the image, no embellishments for contrast, clarity, etcetera. What we see in a JPEG file is an embellished compressed-file version processed by the camera's settings. Due to compression (I think), the JPEG file does not contain all the data that the RAW file contains and thus cannot be edited in post to the extent that a RAW file can be edited. For that reason, a RAW file first has to be edited in Adobe Camera RAW (ACR) and exported out as a viewable JPEG or TIFF or whatever format you want for further editing. I'm not sure if ACR is the only relevant RAW editor. There may be others.

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Mar 29, 2018 09:28:45   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Bill_de wrote:
Won't the raw file look however it does based on the defaults in the software used to view it? It is often said that a raw file is not an image. If that's true then the data it contains has to be interpreted. So aren't you seeing what the software decides to show you, not necessarily the way it looked in the viewfinder?

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YES!

Either the software reverts to the settings in the preview image’s EXIF table (in which case, the initial interpretation looks much like the JPEG, but subtly better), OR, the software applies whatever default look you have chosen or created, OR, it applies the programmer’s defaults (if you haven’t changed them).

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Mar 29, 2018 09:43:28   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
martinfisherphoto wrote:
Why ask the question if the answer is obvious??? The only real advantage I have found with shooting Raw is the ability to recover blown highlights that are about 1 stop over my JPEG files. On occasion I still shoot raw+jpeg to see what if anything magical will happen, like shooting raw makes me a better photographer.. It's doesn't in the least amount. I feel sorry for those poor bastards that think shooting raw will somehow make them and their photos float above the rest of us JPEG shooters.. If you ain't got it, Raw won't get it for yeah. A crap shot is a crap shot, is a crap shot........
Why ask the question if the answer is obvious??? T... (show quote)


So very WELL stated .

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Mar 29, 2018 10:02:29   #
Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
gvarner wrote:
My understanding is that what we see in a RAW uncompressed file produced by a camera is its embedded JPEG, processed only by the camera settings that are necessary to produce the image, no embellishments for contrast, clarity, etcetera. What we see in a JPEG file is an embellished compressed-file version processed by the camera's settings. Due to compression (I think), the JPEG file does not contain all the data that the RAW file contains and thus cannot be edited in post to the extent that a RAW file can be edited. For that reason, a RAW file first has to be edited in Adobe Camera RAW (ACR) and exported out as a viewable JPEG or TIFF or whatever format you want for further editing. I'm not sure if ACR is the only relevant RAW editor. There may be others.
My understanding is that what we see in a RAW unco... (show quote)


I shoot a lot of real estate images per day. Using available mixed lighting and bracketed time exposures with a constant f11 aperture, the white balance changes for every room. Especially in low light situations, digital cameras tend to shift the hues to a salmon, orange to yellow cast. I carry a little 8 inch target on a stand and shoot a good exposure for every room prior to shooting the bracket. When viewing raw images in Lightroom CC, placing the picker on the 18% gray color will reveal the exact temperature to sync with the bracket. Spot On color is achieved in every instance. Same for models, weddings etc. Nikon produces flat images with a slight blue cast. Canon is so much better with color out if the camera. I prefer a warmer image out of the camera and for that reason I switched to Canon cameras years ago. At any rate decorators of expensive high end homes are anal about achieving accurate color. I don’t take any changes so Lightroom is paramount. Setting white balance in the camera is time consuming and a pain in the butt. Shooting a little target or Passport Color Checker is the fastest way to accurate color using Lightroom. Shooting JPEGS is difficult to correct with tint filters, and when you have 25 or more images, consistency is key throughout.

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Mar 29, 2018 10:03:17   #
philo Loc: philo, ca
 
the only reason i see to shooting both raw and jpeg is because some of my viewing programs will not show the raw image. I have to open the icon in order to view them

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Mar 29, 2018 10:16:00   #
Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
Longshadow wrote:
Blown highlights in over exposure cannot be recovered, under exposed areas can usually be brought out.


Exactly. If there are no color pixels in the overexposed highlights, there is no software to manufacture them. However with an underexposed image, the color data is there to manipulate, reduce etc. for an image with good detail. Printing presses print a blow out as a white hole-a total disaster and unacceptable.

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