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Mar 25, 2018 08:48:59   #
GED Loc: North central Pa
 
SueScott wrote:
True, as far as it goes, but that's no excuse for inexcusable behavior. Many, no, MOST people throughout history have grown up under much less than ideal circumstances but they didn't turn out to be mass killers. People were homeless and hungry and out of work during the Great Depression but the young people coming out of it have become known as the Greatest Generation - those men and women who defended this country against Nazi and Japanese aggression. George Washington Carver was a child of slavery and poverty but strove for an education and became one of the great scientists of his generation. It is built into the human spirit to overcome adversity and it is nothing but a cop-out to believe that today's youth cannot aspire to a good life. Way too many of them have been coddled and presented with "participation" trophies to the point that they believe that the world owes them a living without working for it - just observe the juvenile pan-handlers standing in front of Walmart every summer asking total strangers to finance their activities. Again, guns are not the problem - warped, sinful people are and no law banning guns will ever solve it.
True, as far as it goes, but that's no excuse for ... (show quote)


Articulate and well said SueScott, unfortunately too many folks today have no knowledge of the past and where that ignorance will lead us. When adults defer societal policy to teenagers thinking that the kids have more wisdom, it does not bode well for our future. When socialist billionaires are able to finance these protests and use the children as pawns as you so well stated, it is only because of the lack of knowledge of the past, lack of morals which have systematically been removed from the schools and other places in our society. People can remove the ten commandments from public places, remove prayer from schools, and refuse to believe the facts about where this nation originated.
However if you would follow the timeline when the mass killings started occurring there is a direct correlation between the removal of God and the killings. We have had high capacity semi auto weapons available to the public for a long time before AR15 rifles came on the scene and we did not have the mass shootings. When kids are taught in public institutions that hummingbirds crawled out of some mixture of slime in a mud puddle and evolved into the magnificent creatures we see today, and man stands at the highest pinnacle of intelligence and is all knowing, we have taught them not to pursue the truth. When we deny the truth there will be no solutions.

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Mar 25, 2018 08:51:25   #
Largobob
 
TriX wrote:
Despite the propaganda, no one is suggesting that guns be banned or that Americans be disarmed. The proposition is that there should be limits to the type of weapons that are available to the average citizen for non military uses, and that reasonable checks be in place for the purchase of guns. We (I hope) all agree that howitzers, grenades, RPGs and fully automatic weapons are inappropriate for civilian use - those laws have been in place since prohibition with little or no protest, even from the NRA. (and yes, I’m aware that there are permits available to purchase automatic weapons under certain circumstances). The proposition (supported by a majority of Americans) is that large capacity magazines and assault type weapons be subjected to the same laws as fully automatic weapons. Will it stop mass shootings? certainly not, but it would limit the damage.

I have yet to hear a cogent explanation of the civilian need for an AR-15 with a 30 shot magazine. It’s a lousy hunting rifle, a lousy target rifle, and a shotgun is a better home defense weapon. I grew up with guns and hunting, hand-loaded my own ammo, was an NRA member, shot on my college rifle team and shot on the pistol team at my Army base. I carried both fully automatic M-14s and M-16s in combat in Vietnam. I have a concealed carry permit, so I am hardly anti-gun. And we found that a 12 Ga pump was a very useful weapon in an ambush in VietNam - it’s my choice for a home defense weapon now. I can see no reason to own an assault weapon with a 30 shot magazine unless you want to kill lots of people in a hurry, which is exactly what’s happening in these shootings. If the shooter had a pistol, a shotgun or a 6 shot hunting rifle, there would have certainly been fatalities, but likely fewer. Take note of the recent school shooting in Maryland. The shooter had a pistol, not an assault weapon, and the courageous deputy was on equal footing with the shooter, not under-armed. The shooter killed 1 (not 17) and wounded 1 (not 15) before he was killed. Were the circumstances and the reaction of the officer different from Parkland? You bet, but you can’t ignore the contrast.

Today, our children asserted THEIR constitutional right to free speech and THEIR right to petition the government for redress of grievances, and I, for one, am proud of them. They were mature, non-violent, focused and well behaved. Our children have clearly told us what needs to be done, and now it’s up to the adults to do the right thing. Feel free to disagree, it’s your constitutional right.
Despite the propaganda, no one is suggesting that ... (show quote)


I have read your comments several times....and agree with some, but not all of your opinions. My background seems similar to yours....Responsible gun owner, NRA member, conceal carry license, avid target shooter, former hunter (in my younger years), etc. My fear, is that in hysteria, "we" often resort to knee-jerk reactions, to "fix" admittedly serious problems, by making laws about things that are neither the cause of the problem, nor the solution. (Remember reading about Prohibition?) I am in support of the legislation that Florida's Governor Scott has enacted. I agree that large capacity magazines, bump-stocks, silencers, (and the like) have no place hiding behind the 2nd. Amendment. My background is science....so I guess I need to think scientifically. If "we" truly believe that there are underlying root causes for the destruction we see way too often in our society today....then I would welcome "us" to sit down and define in OPERATIONAL TERMS, exactly what those causes are (with supporting data), in order to make well-reasoned decisions. We all have opinions....some based on fact but most based on unsupported non-cause-and-effect information....and a growing number of us pontificate loud and long, with no practical or acquired knowledge on the subject.

For instance, I would like an OPERATIONAL DEFINITION of assault rifle. What aspects of a weapon make it an assault rifle? I have a very remarkable/accurate/expensive Springfield Armory National Match (7.62 NATO)...Is it an assault rifle? (It was in Korea, when it was called an M-14). I have a very remarkable M-1 Garrand (1943, .30-06)....Is it an assault rifle? (Patton called it the gun that won WW2).

First, to be perfectly clear, guns ARE DESIGNED to be deadly....all of them! There are many good reasons why the "AR-15" style rifles, which Americans own by the millions, are called, "The New American Rifle". They ARE extremely accurate, they CAN effectively be used for target/hunting/plinking, and (unfortunately) they CAN be used for illegal purposes. In the wrong hands....nearly everything can.

I don't have an answer. I think there are some common-sense actions that "we" should adopt. I don't believe that knee-jerk reactions can lead us to a better place.

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Mar 25, 2018 08:53:10   #
Joe Blow
 
letmedance wrote:
It will accomplish nothing, the problem lies not in the weapons used but in the social attitudes of today's youth. Too much time is spent in front of electronic devices and not nearly enough is spent learning how to fit in our society.

As long as people are discussing it there will be a drive. As long as politicians continue to prefer the money coming from the NRA and Russia then there won't be.

Only you can decide if you want to be governed by the NRA with Russian help, or not.

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Mar 25, 2018 08:57:22   #
proppro Loc: Milwaukee Area
 
For Sue Scott
I do not agree with you regarding law-abiding citizens. I also grew up in the 60's and saw the guns in the back of trucks. May I remind you they were for hunting, not hurting people. The citizens taking part in the march do not want to do away with the 2nd amendment. They want to eliminate weapons of war. If I were the NRA I would want any 18-year old to be able to buy a gun (with some exceptions). In "exchange" no semi-automatic weapons would be allowed to be owned by private citizens. Mass shooting problems eliminated. Done.

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Mar 25, 2018 08:59:33   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
letmedance wrote:
It will accomplish nothing, the problem lies not in the weapons used but in the social attitudes of today's youth. Too much time is spent in front of electronic devices and not nearly enough is spent learning how to fit in our society.



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Mar 25, 2018 09:01:24   #
egegikbob
 
OK take away one tool

What next all HUNTING rifles, all vehicles driven by people under age 30, all cans
of gasoline, all pressure cookers.........you get the idea....worthless w/o root cause
solutions....

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Mar 25, 2018 09:01:57   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
SueScott wrote:
They are simply pawns being used to disarm law abiding Americans. When I was in high school (the '60's) kids would have rifles hanging on the back windows of their pickup trucks which were sitting in the school parking lot. There were no school shootings. Today, youths are coming from broken families, are addicted to violent computer games and movies, have no respect for anything or anyone, and many of them are on mind altering psychotrophic drugs which are intended to "normalize" their behavior. It is not the gun, it is society that is at fault! Until these problems and others are properly addressed we will continue to see violence in our schools and in other venues. Like a camera, a gun is simply a TOOL which will only do what its user dictates. If guns are outlawed, then maybe cars, and vans, and pressure cookers, and knives, and explosives should be banned as well since all these other things have been used with great effect to kill people. It's time to look past the obvious and find the real cause of all this violence.
They are simply pawns being used to disarm law abi... (show quote)


Well said and right on, SusScott. It’s obvious that you understand the problem much better than most. People need to listen to what you say here.

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Mar 25, 2018 09:04:25   #
StanMac Loc: Tennessee
 
TriX wrote:
Despite the propaganda, no one is suggesting that guns be banned or that Americans be disarmed. The proposition is that there should be limits to the type of weapons that are available to the average citizen for non military uses, and that reasonable checks be in place .....I have yet to hear a cogent explanation of the civilian need for an AR-15 with a 30 shot magazine. .......Today, our children asserted THEIR constitutional right to free speech and THEIR right to petition the government for redress of grievances, and I, for one, am proud of them. They were mature, non-violent, focused and well behaved. Our children have clearly told us what needs to be done, and now it’s up to the adults to do the right thing. Feel free to disagree, it’s your constitutional right.
Despite the propaganda, no one is suggesting that ... (show quote)


Thank you, TriX. Your’s is the most cogent and pointed argument on this issue. All the opposing arguments are a smokescreen to distract from the supremely valid issues you expressed here. Thank you!

Stan

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Mar 25, 2018 09:05:51   #
Largobob
 
egegikbob wrote:
Interesting look at a two word problem

NO RESPECT

Interesting one word root cause

DRUGS

posible three solution


MANDITORY DRUG TESTING


short insights...

Knives kill more people each year that rifles...
60,000+ people die die from just the opioid drugs....

When teenagers (and Adults) march to remove drugs from our society.....
Then the conversation will be focused on the root cause....

Mandatory testing for every person in the USA ages 16 years to 70 years

To beat the problem....you have to ID the problem!

We start from both ends the President and every elected official on down
and every HS Freshman on up. those in the middle will start to think about
the coming positive ID of their habit.

Crime, shootings, knife play, auto slaughter basically rooted in the societies
acceptance of the RIGHT to use drugs.

So stop marching and talking about a few tools used by a society
to display their lack of respect through their acceptance of drugs.

ID the root cause in every person on America

Then spend our time/money on saving them
(and ourselves)
Interesting look at a two word problem br br NO R... (show quote)



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Mar 25, 2018 09:07:27   #
Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin
 
Not seen demonstrations like this since the Vietnam war demonstrations. It was mainly American youth that galvanised a government to take action then and rightly using their right as American's to free speech. So what's the problem now. American youth is using it's rights to free speech once more. You should be so proud of these people. A lot of people all over the world are looking and wishing they could do the same.

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Mar 25, 2018 09:11:41   #
KGOldWolf
 
letmedance wrote:
It will accomplish nothing, the problem lies not in the weapons used but in the social attitudes of today's youth. Too much time is spent in front of electronic devices and not nearly enough is spent learning how to fit in our society.

You usually provide well reasoned posts (even if I don’t agree with all of them, I consider what you write.). However, I think you missed on this one.

The point is, the kids don’t want “to fit into our society”. They don’t like some of what exists today and will change it. For the points they made in yesterday’s demonstration, I support them with all my heart. The kids are our future and I believe they are going to make it better for all of us... at least in terms of safety and the changes they want made.

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Mar 25, 2018 09:13:48   #
KGOldWolf
 
Bob Smith wrote:
Not seen demonstrations like this since the Vietnam war demonstrations. It was mainly American youth that galvanised a government to take action then and rightly using their right as American's to free speech. So what's the problem now. American youth is using it's rights to free speech once more. You should be so proud of these people. A lot of people all over the world are looking and wishing they could do the same.

👍

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Mar 25, 2018 09:17:19   #
Caribou Loc: St. Louis, MO
 
Right. Straight out of the NRA script. NRA just wants to keep the gunmakers happy. They love to get the gullible believing that we're after all their guns. It's like a dog-whistle. There is no reason why any lunatic can easily get his hands on an assault rifle or any weapon like that. Too many politicians are owned by the NRA. The only chance of getting some reasonable solution is to vote these people out of office.

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Mar 25, 2018 09:18:09   #
KGOldWolf
 
egegikbob wrote:
OK take away one tool

What next all HUNTING rifles, all vehicles driven by people under age 30, all cans
of gasoline, all pressure cookers.........you get the idea....worthless w/o root cause
solutions....

So many people here want to simplify this to an all or none solution. If you don’t understand what happened yesterday your world will be changed and you won’t understand why. It’s simple; status quo is not good enough; changes will be made. The world has moved on past your perception of what society should be like.

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Mar 25, 2018 09:34:03   #
02Nomad Loc: Catonsville, MD
 
Quote: "When socialist billionaires are able to finance these protests and use the children as pawns"

I listened to an interview of one of the young men when he was asked about the financial support that they were receiving and he responded by stating that if ANY conditions were attached to any contribution, that contribution would not be accepted or it would be returned. So I do not agree with your statement.

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