Check out Sports Photography section of our forum.
SD card, thumb drive reliability.
Jan 30, 2018 14:56:23 #
I'm confused. Does this mean that when you want to edit and print pictures you are working from your camera card? What are you doing with the cards as they fill up? How do you know where anything is? To answer your question, of course it is greater convenience to have your pictures in one place where you can actually see them and do things with them.
Les Brown wrote:
I have noticed that most UHHers say that they always transfer photos from SD cards to the computer or cloud then reformat the SD card. My novice question is why? Are images on SD cards or thumb drives more subject to loss or deterioration with time? Or, is it for greater convenience by having all images in one or two places? I've simply been keeping my original SD card shotswhich should be filed well if I were better organized. :) Just curious.
Jan 30, 2018 22:04:17 #
Being a so-called computer guru (I have a degree in CS and work toward a masters as a GA), there is no normal reason to format memory cards. First and foremost, a format does not erase the data, It only removes what are called pointers in the directory and at the beginning and end of each file. There's a bit more to it, but that should suffice for a photography group.
I use 64 Gig cards, not because I normally need that much, but because I never know how much I'm going to need. That and I'm a lot less likely to lose a memory card if it stays in the camera. It's a lot easier to lose a spare card, or multiple small cards than one large card! I've never had a memory card fail, yet I've had hard drives fail. I keep duplicate files. One on my computer and one on the server. I copy the file to the computer and MOVE the file from the memory card to the server. I also keep the photos on DVD, or preferably the new M-Disk which will hold 25 GB or more
The server has 4 hard drives in a RAID and has the ability to rebuild a failed drive on a new one. If a drive fails, I just unplug it, insert a new drive and tomorrow it will have all the data the failed drive had. With 4 to 10 TB drives it takes a long time to rebuild one.
Yes, I do carry a spare memory card just as I carry a fresh, spare battery.
SS memory does wear out, but it normally lasts a very long time, probably longer than the photographer.
I use 64 Gig cards, not because I normally need that much, but because I never know how much I'm going to need. That and I'm a lot less likely to lose a memory card if it stays in the camera. It's a lot easier to lose a spare card, or multiple small cards than one large card! I've never had a memory card fail, yet I've had hard drives fail. I keep duplicate files. One on my computer and one on the server. I copy the file to the computer and MOVE the file from the memory card to the server. I also keep the photos on DVD, or preferably the new M-Disk which will hold 25 GB or more
The server has 4 hard drives in a RAID and has the ability to rebuild a failed drive on a new one. If a drive fails, I just unplug it, insert a new drive and tomorrow it will have all the data the failed drive had. With 4 to 10 TB drives it takes a long time to rebuild one.
Yes, I do carry a spare memory card just as I carry a fresh, spare battery.
SS memory does wear out, but it normally lasts a very long time, probably longer than the photographer.
Jan 30, 2018 22:50:36 #
To those who keep their files on Hard Drives (HD). HDs are one of the least reliable means of long term data storage, second only to inexpensive CDs and DVDs. Industry keeps rolling backups for HDs, often on a daily basis.
Computers also fail, so if you only keep your photos on one computer, keep a backup on good quality DVDs, or CDs PROPERLY stored, on edge (preferably in a jewel case), in a cool, dark, dry place.
Heat, humidity, and bright sunlight are the main enemies of CDs and DVDs along with poor handling practices.
Daily use, followed by copying to HDs and then formatting can be hard on memory cards. The latest technology used in memory cards is more durable.
Computers also fail, so if you only keep your photos on one computer, keep a backup on good quality DVDs, or CDs PROPERLY stored, on edge (preferably in a jewel case), in a cool, dark, dry place.
Heat, humidity, and bright sunlight are the main enemies of CDs and DVDs along with poor handling practices.
Daily use, followed by copying to HDs and then formatting can be hard on memory cards. The latest technology used in memory cards is more durable.
Check out Astronomical Photography Forum section of our forum.
Jan 30, 2018 23:08:00 #
Rdhalste wrote:
To those who keep their files on Hard Drives (HD).... (show quote)
At the present time, MDisks and a major cloud provider (with multiple copies of the data at seperate geographic locations) are the most reliable storage systems available, period.
Jan 30, 2018 23:21:52 #
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
Thumb drives and SD cards are not designed for long term, secure storage. I have had thumb drives and SD cards fail and take all data stored on them into oblivion. Documents, drawings can be recreated, but thousands of digital photographs? You remove an SD card without closing it in the OS, or excess static buildup shorts the chips, and what is your alternative?
It isn’t a matter of if, it is a matter of when. If you truly value your craft, another storage medium is necessary.
It isn’t a matter of if, it is a matter of when. If you truly value your craft, another storage medium is necessary.
SD cards are not recommended for long term storage because the charge on the floating gates can bleed off after a long time -- perhaps 10 years.
Removing a card from the computer is only a problem if files are still being written. If the card hasn't been accessed for awhile and you pull the card, nothing should happen. If you pull it while files are actively being transferred, then you get corruption.
Jan 31, 2018 00:02:42 #
therwol
Loc: USA
Les Brown wrote:
I have noticed that most UHHers say that they always transfer photos from SD cards to the computer or cloud then reformat the SD card. My novice question is why? Are images on SD cards or thumb drives more subject to loss or deterioration with time? Or, is it for greater convenience by having all images in one or two places? I've simply been keeping my original SD card shotswhich should be filed well if I were better organized. :) Just curious.
I've had several thumb drives fail. I don't trust them. I've never had an SD card fail, but I had one Micro SD card in a phone fail with some pictures on it. I should have gotten them off of the phone. Yes, I occasionally use a phone for a picture if I'm not carrying a camera with me.
Jan 31, 2018 01:46:45 #
Jan 31, 2018 02:51:06 #
quick235
Loc: Niagara Falls, NY
First up, the "cloud" is not some mystical storage place. it is a server- a bunch of hard drives, in someone's building. Those servers can be hacked and often are, ask Jennifer Lawrence and others who photos were accessed. They can also fail, I do not want to trust someone else's security protocols.
I store my photos on a large capacity micro SD card, ( that way if the contacts on the carrier card break etc-which they often do, I put the micro card into another adapter and I am good to go.) and on a stand-alone Hardrive which I keep disconnecting from my computer unless actually using it. That way, if my computer crashes it won't take the storage HD with it, and it cannot be hacked if it's turned off.
Hard drives can crash too, but generally, photos can be recovered using some software programs for that purpose. "Ashampoo Photo recovery" is one among many. I am not sure how long SD cards last, CD's lose their magnetism after about four-five years, losing data (photos) No data storage solutions will last more than ten years. The best storage I have heard is from here, print them on acid-free quality photo paper with pigment ink. They will probably last a lot longer than micro storage methods.
I store my photos on a large capacity micro SD card, ( that way if the contacts on the carrier card break etc-which they often do, I put the micro card into another adapter and I am good to go.) and on a stand-alone Hardrive which I keep disconnecting from my computer unless actually using it. That way, if my computer crashes it won't take the storage HD with it, and it cannot be hacked if it's turned off.
Hard drives can crash too, but generally, photos can be recovered using some software programs for that purpose. "Ashampoo Photo recovery" is one among many. I am not sure how long SD cards last, CD's lose their magnetism after about four-five years, losing data (photos) No data storage solutions will last more than ten years. The best storage I have heard is from here, print them on acid-free quality photo paper with pigment ink. They will probably last a lot longer than micro storage methods.
Jan 31, 2018 04:43:54 #
Why do you format the cards?
Cameras normally do a "quick format" which does not remove the data, otherwise the recover lost data programs wouldn't work. All the format does is remove the pointers to the files from the root directory and those at the beginning and end of the file.
Cameras normally do a "quick format" which does not remove the data, otherwise the recover lost data programs wouldn't work. All the format does is remove the pointers to the files from the root directory and those at the beginning and end of the file.
Jan 31, 2018 05:39:20 #
quick235 wrote:
First up, the "cloud" is not some mystic... (show quote)
First off, CDs and DVDs are NOT magnetic devices. They are OPTICAL! A laser burns the coating off in tiny spots. What fails with these devices is that coating which makes proper storage essential. Unfortunately that coating ages and will become unreliable in a number of years. There WERE excellent, archival CDs and DVDs, but they were not cheap. The M-disk is not inexpensive either, but its capacity makes it a cost viable opion for archival storage. External USB drives can be abysmally slow transfering a load of uncompressed 105 - 106 MB photos from cameras with full frame sensors and they are not immune from outside access as they need to be running while transfering files to or from the computer.
You are correct that hard drives fail, but data can become corrupted and that is not uncommon for compressed data such as JPGs. Generally you can kiss corrupted data goodby. Good luck on data recovery. User oriented recovery programs recover deleted files IF they have not been overwriten. OTOH a truly failed drive requires sending the drive to a recovery service and unless you have the data insured, recovery can be expensive. It may be as simple as replacing the electronics on the drive, but it may require removing ALL of the magnetic disks and placing them in another drive housing. Drives also fail in modes that leave the data unrecoverable, but I'll skip the details on those modes.
As has been mentioned elsewhere, the only reliable methods of backup are the new M-disks and the cloud. You can have your own cloud. I do! I have two servers that are extremely reliable, but they each cost as much as a good camera. Together the cost as much as a new Nikon D850. Together they have a total of 8 HDs that cost over $400 each. I also use a line conditioner rather than a UPS. A UPS takes time to switch to the battery, the line conditioner does not as it runs off the battery 100% of the time while charging the battery. It generates a true sin wave 120 VAC that is regulated
The cloud you are thking of MAY be a single server or it more likely will be a group of servers at different locations. Either way, I do not trust the cloud.
However, remember that with all your data at one location, things like a lightning strike can wipe out everthing connected whether it's on or off. Fires, floods and violent storms make single site storage vulnerable.
Jan 31, 2018 07:27:06 #
I think you technical gurus are confusing the heck out of the less technical of the members. A format for all intents and purposes DOES erase the images from your memory card. If I have a 16GB card with 8 GB of photos on it and I reformat it I now 16 GB of usable space, less the space used by the format for indexing. The pre-format images are still physically on the memory card but reformatting the card disables all normal methods of retrieving/reading them. Yes there are utilities and services out there that can retrieve your images from it but that's a different discussion.
Check out People Photography section of our forum.
Jan 31, 2018 07:38:52 #
ralphfr wrote:
I think you technical gurus are confusing the heck... (show quote)
That and a lot of people stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
A quick format clears the FAT table (file index list) leaving the actual file data; low level format puts ones or zeros in all of the cell (storage) locations, wiping the file data.
Jan 31, 2018 07:42:20 #
Longshadow wrote:
That and a lot of people stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
A quick format clears the FAT table (file index list) leaving the actual file data; low level format puts ones or zeros in all of the cell (storage) locations, wiping the file data.
A quick format clears the FAT table (file index list) leaving the actual file data; low level format puts ones or zeros in all of the cell (storage) locations, wiping the file data.
Snarky comments aside, if you go back and read some of the comments it was not made clear in some cases that the image files, though still on the card, were no longer accessible. That's all I'm trying to clarify.
Jan 31, 2018 07:45:13 #
ralphfr wrote:
Snarky comments aside, if you go back and read some of the comments it was not made clear in some cases that the image files, though still on the card, were no longer accessible. That's all I'm trying to clarify.
Not directed at you, I agree with you. Directed in general, and I think you know what I mean.
(And yes, I'm an engineer, and I know how memory works at the chip level with the cell array, cell column/row address registers, etc...)
Jan 31, 2018 07:47:19 #
Longshadow wrote:
Not directed at you, I agree with you. Directed in general, and I think you know what I mean.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do. No coffee yet!
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Check out Smartphone Photography section of our forum.