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Ansel Adams, Group f/64, Manipulation and the History of Photography
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Jan 20, 2018 15:21:17   #
VAC Loc: Akron, OH
 
Really, really interesting!

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Jan 22, 2018 10:19:56   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
Darkroom317 wrote:
Check the f/64 manifesto. Again this is within the context of that philosophy. The definition of manipulation itself, of course varies from person to person. Given the limitless possibilities of processing and techniques employed by art photographers, I have begun to consider dodging and burning as not exactly manipulation give that the content of the scene has remained unaltered but again that is me. All opinions and views are welcome and should be respected.

Well said.

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Jan 22, 2018 10:53:47   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Darkroom317 wrote:
Check the f/64 manifesto. Again this is within the context of that philosophy. The definition of manipulation itself, of course varies from person to person. Given the limitless possibilities of processing and techniques employed by art photographers, I have begun to consider dodging and burning as not exactly manipulation give that the content of the scene has remained unaltered but again that is me. All opinions and views are welcome and should be respected.


If the definition of manipulation varies from person to person, then everyone can just make up their own definition of manipulation to not cover whatever they do, and they can claim their photos are not manipulated. But I think that if you selectively lighten or darken different areas of your photos and then claim they aren't manipulated, a lot of people are going to consider that deceptive.

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Jan 22, 2018 11:04:45   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Darkroom317 wrote:
This is an expansion of a post I made on a thread about "manipulation"

While Ansel Adams was a master printer and a photographic and American icon, I grow tired of hearing about Adams and manipulation. It misrepresents his aesthetic and his working philosophy. If you read anything about Group f/64 you will find that the movement promoted "straight photography." This means among many things that photography should stand on its own merits and not try to mimic painting or drawing. A photograph according to this aesthetic philosophy a photograph should be sharp, nearly everything in focus and should represent reality. Dodging and burning change are hardly manipulation, the contents of the scene remain intact but the feeling changes with the changing of some tonal relationships.

Prior to the straight photography movement was the Pictorialist movement. Soft focus and heavy manipulation were key as was narrative. One of the last proponents of pictorialism was William Mortensen. If you haven't heard of him, it is no surprise as Ansel Adams and Beaumant Newhall despised him and his work and essentially wrote him out of history by Newhall omitting from his History of Photography book.

Furthermore, the world of photography and its nearly 192 year history is vast, complex and rich. Dig deeper that Ansel Adams. Other photographers did far more manipulation in the darkroom beyond what he did before and after him. For instance Oscar Gustave Rejlander, Henry Peach Robinson and Jerry Uelsmann and Carol Golemboski.
This is an expansion of a post I made on a thread ... (show quote)


This is another look at the real world of photography - it is an image that illustrates the extreme level of image tuning, in the form of annotations added to an image by the creative director, to bring an image intended for advertising to perfection. In the old days it was done with airbrush and Marshall's retouching inks (for B&W) or aniline dyes for color. If photography is 192 yrs old, then image manipulation is 191 yrs old. It's been around for quite a while. The skill of the retoucher is only equaled by the skill of the photographer. The photographer always has the choice to hand this work off to a retoucher, but he/she must ensure that the best capture is made to allow the retoucher to have the maximum amount of detail, tone and color to work with.


(Download)

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Jan 22, 2018 11:08:54   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
If the definition of manipulation varies from person to person, then everyone can just make up their own definition of manipulation to not cover whatever they do, and they can claim their photos are not manipulated. But I think that if you selectively lighten or darken different areas of your photos and then claim they aren't manipulated, a lot of people are going to consider that deceptive.


It's just another variation of the age-old complaint: "The amount of manipulation I do is ok, but any more than that is cheating!".

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Jan 22, 2018 11:22:14   #
Shutterbug57
 
I am perfectly willing to state that when I screw on a red filter for a B&W image, I have manipulated the image. That is an artistic decision and may enhance the image, but it does manipulate it. Then again, I am from before the post-modern world...

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Jan 22, 2018 12:48:43   #
Ariel
 
Retina wrote:
Well said.


Bereft of imagination the Group f64 was born and photography since then has been mostly under control of the 2nd. rate gallery owners
and auction houses all pushing the flavor of the moment along with the standard bores , Adams, White etc .
One can easily understand why ....it's the "over the top " elephant in the room ... it drove the 64 group into a rage to
get rid of the elephant who single handedly knew more about the craft than the F64 group put together .

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Jan 22, 2018 13:31:07   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
Ariel wrote:
Bereft of imagination the Group f64 was born and photography since then has been mostly under control of the 2nd. rate gallery owners
and auction houses all pushing the flavor of the moment along with the standard bores , Adams, White etc .
One can easily understand why ....it's the "over the top " elephant in the room ... it drove the 64 group into a rage to
get rid of the elephant who single handedly knew more about the craft than the F64 group put together .

There is some validity to your point of view. But truly I think the Pictorialists (and you) are just as much over the top as the F64 Group's concept of Straight photography.

I see both of those styles as equally valid art. And equally valid photography, both today and in their time at the peak of their popularity.

I think most of today's photography makes use of characteristics emphasized by both styles while dropping some of the rigid dogma that separated the two schools of thought to no purposeful end.

Photography really is about generating emotions in the viewer. A little blur here or there does that. Extreme sharpness in other places does the same.

The photographer is NOT following a script, but rather is making one. Photography is a visual communications media.

And as a communications media the art, and the creative artists, are not limited to norms of other such mechanisms. We need not do only what is done with paint, or with a statue, or with written art, or with aural art. We do visual art that is communicated in its own way.

Consider a person born profoundly deaf. They communicate without ever hearing the sound of a word. Writing and thinking are not translated to an internal spoken word the way most humans do. It is translated to visual symbols.

Our photographs are those same visual symbols! They can have the same range of expression and emotion and meaning as any other form of communications.

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Jan 22, 2018 14:07:58   #
bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
 
Ariel wrote:
well at least we know who doesn't care for "modern art "


True, but I certainly don't think people who like it are "wrong"

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Jan 22, 2018 14:29:08   #
Ariel
 
bkyser wrote:
True, but I certainly don't think people who like it are "wrong"


No one said they are wrong ... the statement itself is rather dumb.

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Jan 22, 2018 14:31:44   #
bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
 
Ariel wrote:
No one said they are wrong ... the statement itself is rather dumb.


Wow, personal attacks for having an opinion. Nice

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Jan 22, 2018 14:48:00   #
Ariel
 
Apaflo wrote:
There is some validity to your point of view. But truly I think the Pictorialists (and you) are just as much over the top as the F64 Group's concept of Straight photography.

I see both of those styles as equally valid art. And equally valid photography, both today and in their time at the peak of their popularity.

I think most of today's photography makes use of characteristics emphasized by both styles while dropping some of the rigid dogma that separated the two schools of thought to no purposeful end.

Photography really is about generating emotions in the viewer. A little blur here or there does that. Extreme sharpness in other places does the same.

The photographer is NOT following a script, but rather is making one. Photography is a visual communications media.

And as a communications media the art, and the creative artists, are not limited to norms of other such mechanisms. We need not do only what is done with paint, or with a statue, or with written art, or with aural art. We do visual art that is communicated in its own way.

Consider a person born profoundly deaf. They communicate without ever hearing the sound of a word. Writing and thinking are not translated to an internal spoken word the way most humans do. It is translated to visual symbols.

Our photographs are those same visual symbols! They can have the same range of expression and emotion and meaning as any other form of communications.
There is some validity to your point of view. But... (show quote)


I was not taking sides but just making an observation. It all depends on how you approach photography.
Is taking pretty snap shots to please family and friends an art form ? Does recording an event make it art .?
Are most photographers "Sunday afternoon "painters " who photograph what they only see.and not much else .
You seem limited in your understanding what the artistic process is about ...

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Jan 22, 2018 14:51:12   #
Ariel
 
bkyser wrote:
Wow, personal attacks for having an opinion. Nice


That is a stupid observation ...their was no personal attack ..

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Jan 22, 2018 16:22:45   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
Ariel wrote:
That is a stupid observation ...their was no personal attack ..


Could that in itself not be considered as a personal attack?

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Jan 22, 2018 17:01:04   #
bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
 
Peterff wrote:
Could that in itself not be considered as a personal attack?


I'm guessing it's all a misunderstanding in what I meant to say, or what they meant to say. Tired of all the flame wars around here, and don't intend to participate.

Seems that you got my point, but I'm just letting this dog lie.
Thanks
bk

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