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Field of view and deceptive advertising
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Jan 8, 2018 11:03:37   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
ToBoldlyGo wrote:
You'll have exactly the same number of megapixels with either. The only difference will be if you crop the full frame image to match the crop image. Now if you have a bird somewhere in this image which you want as the focus of the shot, the crop sensor has more pixels on that bird. All things equal you'll get a more detailed bird with the crop camera.


That's what I thought I said, or meant to anyway. I do a lot of BIF and other wildlife. If I can get close I will use the FF, larger subjects, bears, wolves and etc. I do use the crop for about 95% of my BIF.

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Jan 8, 2018 11:30:24   #
dub3 Loc: Sunrise Beach, Texas
 
I fully agree with woodyd regarding misrepresentation. However, “when in Rome do as Romans do”. As a past engineering student with some exposure to optics I always felt that longer focal lengths resulted in greater magnification and greater resolution of the subject. This is only true with images that can not be copied and further manipulated. In photography one can take a image with a given magnification and resolution and “crop” it. This gives an appearance of greater magnification, however the resolution does not change and soon you get pixilation of the image. One reason birders like DX formats is that the image is spread over a greater number of pixels even though it is a more narrow angle of view. This gives rise to another deception put on us. Some of us know it but don’t take issue with it. That is that a FF format does not have the same resolution a DX format has with the same MP. A DX sensor of 20 megapixels has the same resolution of a FF 30 megapixel sensor. One reason birders prefer them. Why is this true ? A FF sensor has a larger angle of view so it needs more pixels to have the same resolution. So much for the 36MP cameras!! Not any better then my D750 24MP when it comes to capturing and image resolution.

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Jan 8, 2018 11:35:41   #
BebuLamar
 
dub3 wrote:
I fully agree with woodyd regarding misrepresentation. However, “when in Rome do as Romans do”. As a past engineering student with some exposure to optics I always felt that longer focal lengths resulted in greater magnification and greater resolution of the subject. This is only true with images that can not be copied and further manipulated. In photography one can take a image with a given magnification and resolution and “crop” it. This gives an appearance of greater magnification, however the resolution does not change and soon you get pixilation of the image. One reason birders like DX formats is that the image is spread over a greater number of pixels even though it is a more narrow angle of view. This gives rise to another deception put on us. Some of us know it but don’t take issue with it. That is that a FF format does not have the same resolution a DX format has with the same MP. A DX sensor of 20 megapixels has the same resolution of a FF 30 megapixel sensor. One reason birders prefer them. Why is this true ? A FF sensor has a larger angle of view so it needs more pixels to have the same resolution. So much for the 36MP cameras!! Not any better then my D750 24MP when it comes to capturing and image resolution.
I fully agree with woodyd regarding misrepresentat... (show quote)


The 20MP DX has the same resolution as a 45MP FX camera. The number of pixels for same resolution is multiplied by 1.5^2 which is 2.25 and not just 1.5.

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Jan 8, 2018 11:36:42   #
rts2568
 
Woodyd,
Varta battery, most hardware stores or else chase up Varta V625 PX on the web. You need two for the Lunasix 3. This is much as they have always been, very reliable battery which is used in multiples soldered together to make up other types.

Hope this helps. There are still a lot of these meters around but just the same look after yours, it'll last for the rest of your life.

Regards,

Ron

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Jan 8, 2018 11:36:50   #
dub3 Loc: Sunrise Beach, Texas
 
Oops forgot the D750 is FF format. Sorry about that. But it does make my D90 shine.

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Jan 8, 2018 11:47:43   #
jcboy3
 
woodyd wrote:
Thank you all for replying to me so promptly. I very much appreciate it. I have read the articles in the links supplied and feel better about it :-)

I still maintain that its deceptive to say that a 300mm FX lens is equivalent to a 450mm on a DX body.


I'm sure someone has corrected this, but I'm not willing to read through all this to see.

A 300mm FX lens on a DX body is equivalent to a 450mm FX lens on an FX body.

Magnification is dependent on sensor size, with the same lens/focal length the image magnification on a DX sensor is 1.5 times the image magnification on an FX sensor.

Your mistake is thinking that you will see the difference between a DX lens, and an FX lens, at the same focal length. Focal length doesn't change, field of view and magnification does.

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Jan 8, 2018 11:48:05   #
Jersey guy Loc: New Joisey
 
This is no different than the old Kodak "Advantix" (I think it was called) system that offered a "C", "H", or "P" format from the same roll of film. The C and P variations were nothing more than cropping processes. One would marvel at a panoramic photo and think it was a breakthrough technology that made a simple camera behave as though it had panoramic capabilities, when in fact, any image, taken by any camera, could be cropped right across the middle of the image cutting off the top and the bottom. No different with this Crop Sensor notion. A lens makes an image of a certain size, according to simple laws of optics. What you (or the camera) choose to do with that information is secondary.

Take a lens of 50mm focal length on a FF camera (film or digital) and you create a photo that looks "normal". Put that lens on a crop sensor camera and that same image looks like it's a 1.5x magnification, or a mild telephoto. Take that same lens (if you could actually do it) and put it on a point & shoot camera with a tiny sensor of just a couple of mm dimensions and, voila, you have a stupendous telephoto lens. Of course, you might not like the IQ of the resultant photo.

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Jan 8, 2018 11:52:17   #
Charlie157 Loc: San Diego, CA
 
woodyd wrote:
Just joined the forum and i'd appreciate some views from members please:

I started taking photographs many years ago with a Nikkormat FT3 35mm camera. After a long absence from photography I entered the digital world with a Nikon D3200 and I'm very happy with it although none of my old Nikor lenses will work on the D3200. I can see the images perfectly but nothing else functions. It took me quite a while to understand the effect that a smaller sensor has on field of view. However, before I fully understood this, I found myself looking at adds for lenses, where a lens of say 50mm on a full frame 35mm would be touted as a 75mm on a smaller sensor, i.e., my D3200. I got all excited and purchased a Tamron 70-300 zoom thinking that the 300mm would give me 450mm on my D3200. Wrong wrong wrong. I started swapping my prime lenses from my Nikkormat days onto my D3200 and found that the images were the same size. Yes, the D3200 maybe doesn't let one see the same field of view as the full frame Nikkormat, but the image remains the same size. The 50mm does not magnify to 75mm equivalent. So I now understand the difference between field of view and image size! I look at adverts for lenses and I see the words" 300mm is equivalent to a 450mm on APS-C." To me this is wrong. When you put a full frame 300mm lens on a smaller sensor, it doesn't magnify the image at all. You just see less of it and seeing less of an image does not bring it any closer!

I'd like to hear what other readers have to say. Am I wrong?

Thanks

Woody
Just joined the forum and i'd appreciate some view... (show quote)


You're correct. The only change is the angle of view. Magnification remains the same. Angle of view is used so that the image falls on your sensor, in size, correctly. Magnification is setting up the glass, optics, in a way that magnifies the image. Changing the angle of view doesn't increase or decrease magnification.

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Jan 8, 2018 12:13:03   #
JJS Loc: SE Michigan & SW Florida
 
Hello all. New to the forum. Let's say I take an image of an eagle with a 24 mp aps-c body and a 400mm lens. Then I take the same image with a 24 mp full frame body and the same lens. I now have two 24 mp images but the eagle appears larger in the aps-c image because of the crop factor. Now I can go into Lightroom and crop the full frame image to make the bird the same size but then I no longer have a 24 mp image because I have cropped some of the pixels out. Now let's say I want to crop both images and show only the head. Wouldn't I have better success with the aps-c image? And isn't that the whole point? Does this make sense or am I way off base?

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Jan 8, 2018 12:24:49   #
AzPicLady Loc: Behind the camera!
 
In my mind, a crop sensor is just that: a crop. You would get the same effect if you took a photo taken with a full frame and the same lens and cropped it. Yes, it does make the subject appear larger, but only because part of the image has been cropped out.

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Jan 8, 2018 12:32:21   #
ToBoldlyGo Loc: London U.K.
 
AzPicLady wrote:
In my mind, a crop sensor is just that: a crop. You would get the same effect if you took a photo taken with a full frame and the same lens and cropped it. Yes, it does make the subject appear larger, but only because part of the image has been cropped out.


Nope. It's all in previous posts. You get a much higher resolution image with the crop sensor compared to the cropped full frame image.

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Jan 8, 2018 13:07:24   #
AzPicLady Loc: Behind the camera!
 
ToBoldlyGo wrote:
Nope. It's all in previous posts. You get a much higher resolution image with the crop sensor compared to the cropped full frame image.


Not to be argumentative, but that did not prove true in my cameras.

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Jan 8, 2018 13:10:43   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
AzPicLady wrote:
Not to be argumentative, but that did not prove true in my cameras.

It has been very true in mine

added: so, you don't have to take advantage of this - but I will

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Jan 8, 2018 13:24:39   #
dub3 Loc: Sunrise Beach, Texas
 
Stop and think, a 24MP DX, a24MP FF. you crop the FF to get same image as the DX. Now you have 2 images that are the same size, a 25MP DX image and a cropped FF image with less then 24MP because it was cropped. Which has the highest resolution or MP? Simple math!!

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Jan 8, 2018 13:28:59   #
RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas
 
woodyd wrote:
Just joined the forum and i'd appreciate some views from members please:

I started taking photographs many years ago with a Nikkormat FT3 35mm camera. After a long absence from photography I entered the digital world with a Nikon D3200 and I'm very happy with it although none of my old Nikor lenses will work on the D3200. I can see the images perfectly but nothing else functions. It took me quite a while to understand the effect that a smaller sensor has on field of view. However, before I fully understood this, I found myself looking at adds for lenses, where a lens of say 50mm on a full frame 35mm would be touted as a 75mm on a smaller sensor, i.e., my D3200. I got all excited and purchased a Tamron 70-300 zoom thinking that the 300mm would give me 450mm on my D3200. Wrong wrong wrong. I started swapping my prime lenses from my Nikkormat days onto my D3200 and found that the images were the same size. Yes, the D3200 maybe doesn't let one see the same field of view as the full frame Nikkormat, but the image remains the same size. The 50mm does not magnify to 75mm equivalent. So I now understand the difference between field of view and image size! I look at adverts for lenses and I see the words" 300mm is equivalent to a 450mm on APS-C." To me this is wrong. When you put a full frame 300mm lens on a smaller sensor, it doesn't magnify the image at all. You just see less of it and seeing less of an image does not bring it any closer!

I'd like to hear what other readers have to say. Am I wrong?

Thanks

Woody
Just joined the forum and i'd appreciate some view... (show quote)



Hi Woody welcome to the hog! As you have stated it the field of view which has changed when using those 35mm film Lens on DSLR camera or the FX Lens on D3200. that’s states it’s 50mm or 200mm eat, ect, is what it is, it does not change one bit. Cropped sensors are a different format size, the so-called size is 24mm by 35mm for full frame APS-C has its size to Nikon and Canon are different from each other as a few others are different to. You can research this if you care to? In my opinion it’s marketing that creates this nonsense.

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