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Why was the 50 mm lens so common as a standard lens ?
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Dec 18, 2017 11:49:11   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
wizbird wrote:
Don't forget that it was called a normal lens back in the era of film. The DSLR now sees a nifty 50 as 75mm. So now the same view is + - 35 mm.
For APS-C sized sensor, yes the equivalent field of view is closer to a 75mm on a full frame camera, but a 50 on a full-frame DSLR is the same as it was with 35mm cameras.

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Dec 18, 2017 11:50:15   #
Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada
 
JPL wrote:
I see it all the time here on UHH, people stating that 50 mm lens is the standard lens because it "sees" almost what the human eye sees. And this is not only here on UHH but in endless comments and articles on the internet.

I am not saying this is wrong but I am not beliving it either because the 50 mm is not at all close to what the human eye sees. A compromise between a portrait lens, landscape lens and lens manufacturing cost for a fast lens is more likely to be the reason. It would be interesting to get the true answer to this.

Anyone here that knows the truth about why the 50 (or close to 50) mm lens became the standard lens??
I see it all the time here on UHH, people stating ... (show quote)


Anyone here that knows the truth about why the 50 (or close to 50) mm lens became the standard lens??
Back in the 1950s when I started my studies in photography, I was told that a "standard" or "normal" lens was one that produced an image showing appoximately the same area and perspective of the human eye.
Without spending an hour reading many many pages of opinions to see if my thoughts have been stated earlier, I would like to point out that the 50mm lens was not the first "standard or normal" lens.
35mm still photography came along long after "normal" lenses were established. My first "pro" camera was a 4x5 view camera, then a 4x5 speed Graphic along with an 8x10 view camera. Along the way I used 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 and 2 1/4 square medium format cameras. All of these were when 35mm was mostly used by amateur photographers.
As you can appreciate, they all had "normal" or "standard" lenses, none of which were 50mm. A "portrait" lens was not an "85mm" lens, but a lens approximately 1 and 1/2 times the focal length of a standard or normal lens. Today it seems that manufacturers and retailers use the title "portrait lens" on anything they wish to sell to unknowing aspiring photographers.

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Dec 18, 2017 11:50:18   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
The thing that always confused me with the idea that a normal lens sees like the eye sees is that I was thinking in terms of field of view of the eye, which is obviously much wider than a 50mm lens. The idea that it is like the perspective of the eye and not the field of view clears that up.

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Dec 18, 2017 11:51:07   #
1Feathercrest Loc: NEPA
 
Longshadow wrote:
Yes. Something 20 feet away will look like 20 feet away in the picture.


Thank you for the most cogent reply is this forum.

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Dec 18, 2017 11:54:42   #
mdougc Loc: Sarver, PA
 
Hank Radt wrote:
Not sure this really answers the question, but it is a fascinating read: https://petapixel.com/2012/11/17/the-camera-versus-the-human-eye/


That is a good article! Thank you, Hank.

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Dec 18, 2017 11:56:18   #
bpulv Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
JPL wrote:
I see it all the time here on UHH, people stating that 50 mm lens is the standard lens because it "sees" almost what the human eye sees. And this is not only here on UHH but in endless comments and articles on the internet.

I am not saying this is wrong but I am not beliving it either because the 50 mm is not at all close to what the human eye sees. A compromise between a portrait lens, landscape lens and lens manufacturing cost for a fast lens is more likely to be the reason. It would be interesting to get the true answer to this.

Anyone here that knows the truth about why the 50 (or close to 50) mm lens became the standard lens??
I see it all the time here on UHH, people stating ... (show quote)


THE STANDARD LENS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE HUMAN EYE SEES! It is all about lens physics and mathematics. According to DP Review, ". . . the 50mm lens is a standard lens for FF35mm (35mm film cameras) because the 24x36mm film frame produced by those cameras is approximately 50mm across its diagonal dimension. The diagonal dimension of any format traditionally defines the focal-length that's half-way between wide-angle and telephoto for that format. The distance from one corner to the one opposite in FF 35mm film frame is actually more like 43mm, and some people prefer a lens of around that length when working on FF35mm. . . ."

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Dec 18, 2017 11:59:11   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
I had two rangefinder 35mm cameras {one Yashica and one Canon} before I went SLR with Pentax; each rangefinder camera had a 45mm lens.

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Dec 18, 2017 12:05:23   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
Here's an exercise that will answer the question in a very practical way. Go to a brand and check the prices of their prime lenses for full frame. Which is predominately the least expensive?

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Dec 18, 2017 12:07:15   #
ballsafire Loc: Lafayette, Louisiana
 
JPL wrote:
After Leica made the first 35 mm film camera with that 50 mm lens the next thing that happens in this field is that Canon (Kwanon at that time) contracted Nikon (Nippon Kogagku at that time) to copy that lens while Canon copied the camera. Later on many other manufacturers made their own copies of the Leica design and when Leica made new models of their cameras other manufacturers made new copies of that model as well. It went on like this for a long time. It does not seem like there was any other reason for the use of 50 mm lens than that it was a sharp and cost effective lens with wide aperture. This human eye nonsense had nothing to do with this lens becoming the normal lens, it was all about copying Leica and beating them in price. And when everyone had done that this lens was the one that every camera owner had and it became a standard lens because everyone was copying it. That is what it looks like. But if anyone here on UHH can find any source of reliable info confirming that when Leica designed the first 50 mm lens or when others started copying that lens or improving it, that the reason for this focal lengt had anything to do with the human eye angle of view I would very much like to see that source. In fact all points to the reason for this human eye point being a clever salesman figuring how to continue sell the same cheap lens to make money on and keep the customers happy in their belief at the same time ;)

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/50mmnikkor/index.htm
After Leica made the first 35 mm film camera with ... (show quote)


See? You have answered your own question!! LOL

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Dec 18, 2017 12:12:00   #
wmurnahan Loc: Bloomington IN
 
wizbird wrote:
Don't forget that it was called a normal lens back in the era of film. The DSLR now sees a nifty 50 as 75mm. So now the same view is + - 35 mm.


Only crop frame, full frame sees the same as 35mm

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Dec 18, 2017 12:16:22   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
The thing that always confused me with the idea that a normal lens sees like the eye sees is that I was thinking in terms of field of view of the eye, which is obviously much wider than a 50mm lens. The idea that it is like the perspective of the eye and not the field of view clears that up.


In fact the field of view of the eyes is close to 180 degrees with peripheral vision, and more like 84 degrees with decent resolution, although the FOV of the fovea, with maximum resolution is much smaller.

“The same size as seen by the eye” is not really true, as that depends on the magnification of the viewfinder. The focal length of the eye, btw, is about 25mm.

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Dec 18, 2017 12:35:57   #
BartHx
 
Whether or not the 50 mm lens, when used on a 35 mm camera, closely matches what the human eye would tend to see could be up for debate. This is especially true since everyone views the world through a different set of eyes. However, with a digital camera, a comparable "standard" lens would depend on the size of your sensor. Regardless of film size, what was established as a "normal" lens was one with a focal length approximately equal to the diagonal dimension of the film in use. With this standardization, you could expect to get a similar view whether you were using a 35 mm camera or an 8" x 10" camera. It established a reference point from which we could all understand what would be a long lens or a short lens and would be able to obtain comparable perspective for whatever size film we were using.

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Dec 18, 2017 12:57:53   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
BartHx wrote:
Whether or not the 50 mm lens, when used on a 35 mm camera, closely matches what the human eye would tend to see could be up for debate. This is especially true since everyone views the world through a different set of eyes. However, with a digital camera, a comparable "standard" lens would depend on the size of your sensor. Regardless of film size, what was established as a "normal" lens was one with a focal length approximately equal to the diagonal dimension of the film in use. With this standardization, you could expect to get a similar view whether you were using a 35 mm camera or an 8" x 10" camera. It established a reference point from which we could all understand what would be a long lens or a short lens and would be able to obtain comparable perspective for whatever size film we were using.
Whether or not the 50 mm lens, when used on a 35 m... (show quote)


With standard optical formulae, the focal length is approximately the same as the diameter of the image circle. Adding a bit to the 43mm diagonal of the 35mm frame ensures that you are not at the outer edge of the image circle of the lens, where vignetting and other aberrations such as coma are hardest to control, especially with faster lenses. Longer lenses (60mm) start getting more expensive and harder to make and correct at fast apertures, whereas shorter ones (45mm) start having serious issues at the edge of the frame.

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Dec 18, 2017 13:00:36   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
BartHx wrote:
Whether or not the 50 mm lens, when used on a 35 mm camera, closely matches what the human eye would tend to see could be up for debate. This is especially true since everyone views the world through a different set of eyes. However, with a digital camera, a comparable "standard" lens would depend on the size of your sensor. Regardless of film size, what was established as a "normal" lens was one with a focal length approximately equal to the diagonal dimension of the film in use. With this standardization, you could expect to get a similar view whether you were using a 35 mm camera or an 8" x 10" camera. It established a reference point from which we could all understand what would be a long lens or a short lens and would be able to obtain comparable perspective for whatever size film we were using.
Whether or not the 50 mm lens, when used on a 35 m... (show quote)


Well, that doesn’t work out for a 35mm negative. A 35mm negative has a native diagonal of 43mm. Take it a step further and consider that when Leica first introduced its camera (1926), because of 8x10 and 4x5 cameras, the standard enlargement was an 8x10. Fitting that ratio to a 35mm negative will give its cropped diagonal as 38mm. The 50mm does not fit the diagonal narrative. The ideas about diagonal and approximating the eye all seem to me to be post facto. I believe the lens choice came first and was a economical decision. All the rest is justification of that choice.

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Dec 18, 2017 13:01:39   #
Burtzy Loc: Bronx N.Y. & Simi Valley, CA
 
The 35mm film format was actually 24X36 mm. By using the Pythagorean theorum, the length of the diagonal was 43.26 mm. Camera makers simply settled on 50 mm as the normal lens because that covered the diagonal with a tad to spare. The lenses were called "normal" because generally speaking they were the ones in that range. There a few 45mm - 48mm lenses as well that were considered normal.

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