Are "Beginners" Cameras Really Best for a Beginner?
Nov 22, 2017 08:40:48 #
My first and only camera is the Canon 5D Mark IV with a Gitzo tripod and many L glass lenses. Don't skimp
Nov 22, 2017 08:41:32 #
Nov 22, 2017 09:00:45 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
I probably haven't handled another DSLR camera in ... (show quote)
I am not a fan on the beginner kits but would rather see people start with a camera that focuses on Shutter, Aperture and Manual with Program mode as a crutch, only if absolutely needed. To me the faster you can learn and understand the exposure triangle the faster you can more your photography forward. Just my viewpoint...your mileage may vary...
Best,
Todd Ferguson
Nov 22, 2017 09:10:13 #
First thing first, I am not familiar with the Nikon D40xi or the D5000 but I must say both cameras have had very good reviews as entry cameras. Both of them, from what I know, can be used in Manual Mode and that means to me that shutter speeds and apertures can be regulated by the operator.
I do not really understand what you mean by "both of these camera have the one issue of not being able to alter shutter speed and aperture independently easily." If they have a Manual Mode then aperture and shutter speeds can be alter independently but please note that I said I am not familiar with those bodies.
If I had to buy one of those entry level bodies having Manual Mode is to me a priority like it should be to anyone just starting in photography. Manual is a shooting mode that allows the student to learn fast and apply the basic principles of photography. Manual mode also, as you surely know offers the photographer full control over the exposure using the appropriate ISO speed for the subject at hand. Super fast AF. shooting rate and megapixels are not that important to a beginner.
The D7100 is a much more advanced camera than the ones you mentioned and in my humble opinion more appropriate for an advanced amateur. Do not misunderstand me, if someone who knows nothing about photography wants to buy a D5 so be it but I do not believe he or she is buying the best camera for a starter if you know what I mean. Entry cameras, refurb or used are sold at very attractive prices and they have all the features a newcomer needs to learn photography. Setting a camera in Aperture Priority IS NOT the way to start learning since the camera is selecting the shutter speed it considers "optimal" for the subject being photographed or in other words, the camera is working in one of the AUTO modes. Perhaps the shutter speed the camera selected is a good one, perhaps it is not appropriate for the subject.
When you were ready with your advanced skills using digital photography you updated to a D7100. By now you could appreciate features in the new camera that made your photography easier and that is exactly what I recommend to a beginner, update when your present camera is not doing the job or when you feel limited by it. To me that only means that the beginner has progressed to the point that the new camera will serve his or her needs well.
Do I recommend an entry level camera to a beginner? Yes, I do IF the camera can be used in Manual Mode.
I do not really understand what you mean by "both of these camera have the one issue of not being able to alter shutter speed and aperture independently easily." If they have a Manual Mode then aperture and shutter speeds can be alter independently but please note that I said I am not familiar with those bodies.
If I had to buy one of those entry level bodies having Manual Mode is to me a priority like it should be to anyone just starting in photography. Manual is a shooting mode that allows the student to learn fast and apply the basic principles of photography. Manual mode also, as you surely know offers the photographer full control over the exposure using the appropriate ISO speed for the subject at hand. Super fast AF. shooting rate and megapixels are not that important to a beginner.
The D7100 is a much more advanced camera than the ones you mentioned and in my humble opinion more appropriate for an advanced amateur. Do not misunderstand me, if someone who knows nothing about photography wants to buy a D5 so be it but I do not believe he or she is buying the best camera for a starter if you know what I mean. Entry cameras, refurb or used are sold at very attractive prices and they have all the features a newcomer needs to learn photography. Setting a camera in Aperture Priority IS NOT the way to start learning since the camera is selecting the shutter speed it considers "optimal" for the subject being photographed or in other words, the camera is working in one of the AUTO modes. Perhaps the shutter speed the camera selected is a good one, perhaps it is not appropriate for the subject.
When you were ready with your advanced skills using digital photography you updated to a D7100. By now you could appreciate features in the new camera that made your photography easier and that is exactly what I recommend to a beginner, update when your present camera is not doing the job or when you feel limited by it. To me that only means that the beginner has progressed to the point that the new camera will serve his or her needs well.
Do I recommend an entry level camera to a beginner? Yes, I do IF the camera can be used in Manual Mode.
Nov 22, 2017 09:15:07 #
Nov 22, 2017 09:35:13 #
cameraf4 wrote:
My first Nikon was an Aperture Priority ONLY model... (show quote)
My philosophy also. I learned early on not to buy cheap entry level lenses. They may make decent toys but not decent images. As for the camera body, if one is serious about photography, get a body that will challenge you to learn and will last.
True beginner cameras are meant for those who don't plan on or care to expand beyond a beginner, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Nov 22, 2017 09:38:53 #
Jerry G wrote:
The answer to your question depends on if you want to learn photography. As your case points out the d3000 and d5000 series cameras make it hard to make exposure adjustments, so you tend to use some form of automation. Beginner cameras need to be easy to learn with. What are now offered as beginner cameras have too many options and are unnecessarily complicated.
The low end cameras are way more complicated than the top of the line in most manufacturers line up. While they are not bad cameras and in the hand of experienced photographers they are capable of capturing great images. Just that there is nothing beginner about those low end cameras.
Nov 22, 2017 11:03:17 #
RRS
Loc: Not sure
wjones8637 wrote:
First I want to acknowledge that this is from a Ni... (show quote)
A whole lot depends on the person and their knowledge of basic photography. If you are spending your own money you can do whatever just don't let a salesperson working on commission sell you more then you need. If I was buying for a child or a younger person I'd look at a "starter camera" with a kit lens because the excitement of photography may not last. Look at the bigger picture, today you also will need a computer and knowledge of some kind of software, we're not talking cell phone's anymore.
My grandson has been going to Yellowstone with us for years and now he is 12. I started him off with a Canon 7D with an 18-135mm kit lens and he spent time with me shooting and learning the triangle of photography along with Canon's DPP editing program, he's now into PS. He's now also using a 300mm f/2.8 with a 1.4 shooting off a bean bag from the car but still very happy with the old 7D, but eyeing up the 7DMKII along with my 600mmf/4.0. I'll have no problem buying him his next better camera when he wants it. We have several 12x18 canvas prints up at our house and his of bear shots that he's done. It's funny and great too to hear him say after his first shot in the morning saying "too dark got to open up 2/3's", he does his own camera settings. We usually start off in the early morning at dark. If he had lost interest the only thing that I really bought for him was the 18-135mm kit lens and I would have kept it anyway, I think it's a pretty good lens. Every situation is different, we just need to make sound judgements.
Nov 22, 2017 11:10:11 #
wjones8637 wrote:
First I want to acknowledge that this is from a Ni... (show quote)
If everyone could afford Ferrari's, notwithstanding likes and preferences, what do you think we would all be driving?
Entry level, beginner cameras, advanced hobbyist, advanced enthusiast, Professional? It's really all about spanning the market of buying public and what they either can afford or what they are able to buy. A motivated enthusiast can learn to use the most expensive camera manufactured, if they can justify or handle the price. There is very little one can do with a $3000 camera body that can't be done with a $600 camera body.
No, it's really about the money and having something to sell to every potential buyer in the market. Fantastic imagery and photos are currently being place in the professional marketplace with film gear using $1000 worth of medium and large format gear. What can the buyer afford, "Lets build him a camera for his/her skill level that's easier to learn with."
Phshaww!!!! What hogwash. What are you willing to spend. Would that camera cost more, and would you step up if you thought it would improve your photography to a higher level.... Professional?
Waddaya Wannabe? White lenses will raise your stature, or improve your photography? Not likely.... it's really about the money and buying choices based on wallet size. The reason for the wide variety of models is to have enough models to hit your price bracket.
Ferrari anyone... how about the Nikon D850. Or a Hasselblad or Leica, neither of whom are embracing the low priced "beginner" market?
Nov 22, 2017 12:16:17 #
Retina
Loc: Near Charleston,SC
wjones8637 wrote:
First I want to acknowledge that this is from a Ni... (show quote)
Most readers know this but I wanted to agree with the post. Manual mode on the D3000/D5000 models is indeed present, but with these less costly, compact, lighter models it is not nearly as easy to use as with the classic film SLRs or with the D7000 line. To me, a pentaprism and dual wheels are worth the extra expense. I love the D3300 for Auto (i.e. good for leaving a charged camera in the Automobile's glove box) , tripod work, or when using pre-AI NIKKOR lenses. But for walkaround, wildlife, amateur sports, etc. the D7500 or similar is a much better choice based on the layout of the controls as well as the larger and brigher viewfinder and eye-level readout for f-stop and shutter speed.
Nov 22, 2017 12:54:21 #
Personally, I'd rather provide a camera that a person can grow into rather than grow out of. (my apologies for the grammatical construction of that sentence)
--Bob
--Bob
wjones8637 wrote:
First I want to acknowledge that this is from a Ni... (show quote)
Nov 22, 2017 13:07:29 #
RRS
Loc: Not sure
rmalarz wrote:
Personally, I'd rather provide a camera that a person can grow into rather than grow out of. (my apologies for the grammatical construction of that sentence)
--Bob
--Bob
Nov 22, 2017 14:11:43 #
Perhaps deciding on your goals with photography is the best way to start ... ie., to just snap pics now and then or do you have specific goals photographically and want to be sure you invest in equipment that allows easy accomplishment of said goals. Photography is similar to many other hobbies.. fly fishing or archery or golf... you have to make an educated guess as to the level of interest you have in this hobby and if you want to start cheap then re buy if you end up liking it. In fly fishing I started with a top of the line 8 weight rod because I knew I intended to be a serious user and intended to fish our coastal flats the rest of my life.
Many people simply buy a camera and lens based on cost and never seriously do any research to figure out what they might want or need to do with the camera as time goes by. I have been asked many times by friends what is the least expensive camera they can buy for general use... and I always ask them to consider seriously how much they would use a camera. Your description of your progress in photography is probably the most common where you run into photographs that are difficult with the equipment you have plus you begin to see the advantages of the "more controls" available to the user on more advanced cameras. For me personally I really appreciate the external controls of cameras like the D300, D500... D700, D4 and prefer the "pro feature" cameras because of this.
To me a basic interest in photography requires one to at least consider some basic parameters as to what kind of photographs they want to take plus the advantages of easier basic controls for taking photos aside from putting your camera on "P" and shooting away. Manufacturers make several models at a price point where the average shooter just wants to take pics with as little muss and fuss as possible. Millions of people just want happy snaps of their family and vacation... I would note that over the years most of my friends and family were completely satisfied with a recommendation of a quality point and shoot or a basic DSLR... and never thought of a camera need again.
More serious would be photographers will likely invest time to become educated to a point where they achieve an understanding of the basics features of a camera to meet their needs under most circumstances and under most situations. This would especially go for lenses too. Just evaluating the kinds of photography you want to do can help in deciding how much camera/lens to buy. Taking time to learn more about your needs both starting and in the future can only help appreciate more advanced separate controls etc. Probably the complaint most often seen in photography is that people want to take photos of their children in sports... but their camera does not offer fast enough focus etc, changeable lenses, etc... to really perform for them. Note: fast action photography requires one do some research to get a camera that performs well in sports... examples ... Nikon D70, D200, D300, D500 et al. Realistically, most likely sports/fast action photography is one of the few activities that can really rule out a camera as a choice. The basic DSLR entry for both Nikon and Canon will take 95% of photos for most folks.
Most of the more advanced cameras offer individual easy access controls for ISO, quality, white point plus better low light images and other more advanced features.. The advantage of having fast access to individual controls to modify settings is great considering the time it takes to go into the menu systems of most cameras to achieve your settings. Nikon offering complete banks of settings (U1 and U2) that can be saved are valuable features for those who shoot common situations now and then and just want to change to those settings with one simple selection.
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d7000/users-guide/index.htm#u1u2 Absence of this feature with the D500 is why many have not bought this camera.
Once people spend enough time with their camera they begin to realize the advantages of having easier/faster control of their camera (user friendliness) during use. The reality is that most more advanced photographers started with a first camera that left a lot to be desired in features and they graduated up the scale as their knowledge and budget progressed. A camera is just a tool and some work better or are easier to use than others.
Anyone seriously interested in photography can invest a little time to learn the majority of the controls on the camera you decide to invest in... as well as what are the essential features for a camera to achieve the type of shooting they intend to do... (go to kenrockwell.com and read the set up and review on your camera plus much more on all facets of digital photography... there is no better web sight for Nikon and Canon). Ken's insight on individual camera features is invaluable from my experience over many years. Like with most tools, it well worth researching those that are available and the pros and cons of each before making a decision.
If one has a local camera store that rents equipment its a good idea to rent and use a prospective camera you are thinking of buying... or borrow one from a friend. This goes for lenses too.
RodB
Many people simply buy a camera and lens based on cost and never seriously do any research to figure out what they might want or need to do with the camera as time goes by. I have been asked many times by friends what is the least expensive camera they can buy for general use... and I always ask them to consider seriously how much they would use a camera. Your description of your progress in photography is probably the most common where you run into photographs that are difficult with the equipment you have plus you begin to see the advantages of the "more controls" available to the user on more advanced cameras. For me personally I really appreciate the external controls of cameras like the D300, D500... D700, D4 and prefer the "pro feature" cameras because of this.
To me a basic interest in photography requires one to at least consider some basic parameters as to what kind of photographs they want to take plus the advantages of easier basic controls for taking photos aside from putting your camera on "P" and shooting away. Manufacturers make several models at a price point where the average shooter just wants to take pics with as little muss and fuss as possible. Millions of people just want happy snaps of their family and vacation... I would note that over the years most of my friends and family were completely satisfied with a recommendation of a quality point and shoot or a basic DSLR... and never thought of a camera need again.
More serious would be photographers will likely invest time to become educated to a point where they achieve an understanding of the basics features of a camera to meet their needs under most circumstances and under most situations. This would especially go for lenses too. Just evaluating the kinds of photography you want to do can help in deciding how much camera/lens to buy. Taking time to learn more about your needs both starting and in the future can only help appreciate more advanced separate controls etc. Probably the complaint most often seen in photography is that people want to take photos of their children in sports... but their camera does not offer fast enough focus etc, changeable lenses, etc... to really perform for them. Note: fast action photography requires one do some research to get a camera that performs well in sports... examples ... Nikon D70, D200, D300, D500 et al. Realistically, most likely sports/fast action photography is one of the few activities that can really rule out a camera as a choice. The basic DSLR entry for both Nikon and Canon will take 95% of photos for most folks.
Most of the more advanced cameras offer individual easy access controls for ISO, quality, white point plus better low light images and other more advanced features.. The advantage of having fast access to individual controls to modify settings is great considering the time it takes to go into the menu systems of most cameras to achieve your settings. Nikon offering complete banks of settings (U1 and U2) that can be saved are valuable features for those who shoot common situations now and then and just want to change to those settings with one simple selection.
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d7000/users-guide/index.htm#u1u2 Absence of this feature with the D500 is why many have not bought this camera.
Once people spend enough time with their camera they begin to realize the advantages of having easier/faster control of their camera (user friendliness) during use. The reality is that most more advanced photographers started with a first camera that left a lot to be desired in features and they graduated up the scale as their knowledge and budget progressed. A camera is just a tool and some work better or are easier to use than others.
Anyone seriously interested in photography can invest a little time to learn the majority of the controls on the camera you decide to invest in... as well as what are the essential features for a camera to achieve the type of shooting they intend to do... (go to kenrockwell.com and read the set up and review on your camera plus much more on all facets of digital photography... there is no better web sight for Nikon and Canon). Ken's insight on individual camera features is invaluable from my experience over many years. Like with most tools, it well worth researching those that are available and the pros and cons of each before making a decision.
If one has a local camera store that rents equipment its a good idea to rent and use a prospective camera you are thinking of buying... or borrow one from a friend. This goes for lenses too.
RodB
wjones8637 wrote:
First I want to acknowledge that this is from a Ni... (show quote)
Nov 22, 2017 15:07:52 #
I hate the term 'starter camera' or 'beginnners camera'. It reminds me too much of the term, 'training bra'.
Nevertheless, I have a Nikon D3300. I was so new when I got it, I wasn't even aware of the concept of 'starter camera'. I have been using it about 3 to 4 years and am still happy with it. I found that, with a great lens, Nikon 200-500, I am often very happy with my photos. I am still learning the camera, still haven't tried Manual mode, but I NEVER use Auto anymore. Never have since I got the camera. Sure, I would like to get a more advanced camera, but there is no way until I can tell myself what I am missing from my 3300 and which one of the 'better' cameras can do what it is I am needing it to do. So I guess I will have to wait til that missing factor becomes evident. Maybe by then, I will feel more confident that I know what settings to use in different situations and I know what the 3300 is missing. I do not regret getting a 'starter camera'.
Nevertheless, I have a Nikon D3300. I was so new when I got it, I wasn't even aware of the concept of 'starter camera'. I have been using it about 3 to 4 years and am still happy with it. I found that, with a great lens, Nikon 200-500, I am often very happy with my photos. I am still learning the camera, still haven't tried Manual mode, but I NEVER use Auto anymore. Never have since I got the camera. Sure, I would like to get a more advanced camera, but there is no way until I can tell myself what I am missing from my 3300 and which one of the 'better' cameras can do what it is I am needing it to do. So I guess I will have to wait til that missing factor becomes evident. Maybe by then, I will feel more confident that I know what settings to use in different situations and I know what the 3300 is missing. I do not regret getting a 'starter camera'.
Nov 22, 2017 15:16:57 #
Retina
Loc: Near Charleston,SC
rmalarz wrote:
Personally, I'd rather provide a camera that a person can grow into rather than grow out of. (my apologies for the grammatical construction of that sentence)
--Bob
--Bob
There is nothing for which to apologize regarding your first sentence other than perhaps the use of a contraction in writing. Trailing prepositions are not nearly as bad as admitting to have upgraded cameras. I envy all the experts who bought only one digital camera which will remain their one and only camera for good. I envy them because they still have the good sense to realize that they still need to grow into their first. My hat is off to them.
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