blackest Loc: Ireland

darn to late to edit I meant to say:

If you are photographing in a studio you are hardly just photographing the studio. You bring in different elements , lighting, shade and create the moment you want to exist. An awful lot of photographers turn up and shoot what is there. It doesn't need to be like that though even a landscape can be planned to create the photo you want to make.

Please excuse my temporary inability to converse in English

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

Yes but you can't saw a 2X4 with that crow bar. Cameras are tools. You need the right tool for the job, but if you don't have the skills or the vision no tool will work. Adams was a great photographer but he did not shoot sports with his view camera.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

Similarly, if you are a Nikon user currently using a D750, purchasing a D850 would clearly make sense if details are extremely important to you, but not so much if you shoot mostly at high ISO numbers {because DxoMark's so-called "sports" score is actually higher for the D750 than for the D850}.

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

Hi Lee. That is beautiful. At the risk of re-opening this hornet's nest, which takes the most skill and effort, the photograph or the painting?

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

Physical or mental?

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

You need both, so both.

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

A couple more clips from my post on similar thread about Art photography. It should be mentioned that this pertains to contemporary and conceptual art

This thought has been lingering over me as I write for my MFA applications. I had a conversation with a friend who teaches at the university I went. She mentioned that all we have as photographers is content. This got me thinking about the photographic medium in relation to other media such as painting, sculpture etc... Painters obsess over mark making and how it creates the structure of the painting. Sculptors obsess about materials and their meaning.

So often, we think of photography is the easiest artistic medium and to a certain extent this true. The mechanics of photography are simple. However, given that all we have is content and concept, photography may indeed be the most complicated medium with which to create successful art.


Given the unhindered, democratic and ubiquitous nature of the unaltered photograph it can be the most difficult of all forms to function successfully as Art, especially in the contemporary Art environment. The arrival of conceptual art in the 1960s is what propelled photography particularly the unaltered color photograph in the art world spotlight.

The most important tool of an artist working with photography is their mind and by extension their eyes. Composition and technique while important have become secondary to one's ability to make connections and to recognize significant ideas and juxtapositions. Also, it should be noted that such things are better conveyed by a photographic series rather than a single image. The single image to me is similar to a note in a song or a sentence in a book. The series is the song or novel which can covey larger ideas and emotions than the single image.

jmvaugh Loc: Albuquerque

Even a struggling amateur working to develop his/her artistic vision can instantly appreciate the look and feel of a well balanced, quality camera with a big bright viewfinder or EVF with a beautiful sharp high quality lens mounted. As a total amateur pianist I vividly remember how I felt playing a Bosendorfer concert grand. I’ll never forget that experience even though I will never be able to play at the level to ever deserve owning that instrument. I know buying a 5D MkIV won’t improve my photographic skills one iota, but would I love to have it with some EF L lenses? Absolutely!!!! Of course!!! Why the heck not!!!! I’m certainly not ready to commit the funds necessary for that purchase and all the other upgrades required yet, but maybe someday and I’ll be practicing and improving my technique, skill level and developing my artistic vision in the meantime.

canon Lee

Well, Bob, I was on a shoot, in a notable artists studio, photographing her paintings for a catalogue for a show she was going to do, when I looked to my left and saw her window, it was to me a wonderful natural still life setting, which frankly Bob I could not have created. It took just a second to snap the shot. The rendering in oils was a skill, as well as taking the shot, but no effort to have enjoyed each paint stroke creating the canvas. It turned out that the brushes on the window sill were her late husbands, that she had not disturbed since his passing. I made a print of my painting and mailed it to her. It was an honor. Digging a hole in the ground takes lots of effort and sweat, but painting for me has always been a time spent in pleasure... Any photographer could have taken that shot, & that is a skill.... I would say it takes longer to create a painting than to take a shot.... When in my studio shooting a product, where it takes hours to shoot, I'd say that is more effort than skill... I don't know how to compare a spontaneous, in the moment shot, with effort !
Thank you for your compliment.

canon Lee

canon Lee

Hi... The strange thing about doing a painting is that at some point when I'm alone and painting, I mentally leave my body, and painting leads me, & I become a spectator, watching my hand paint. Sort of an out of body experience. I have many times lost any sense of time or my environment. Its like I become the painting. I amaze myself after completing a painting, as to how I did it. I learn from my own painting. I taught art briefly, only to learn I don't know how to paint, teach, or inspire. Painting for me just happens. Physically I am exhausted, & hungry, after hours of painting. I hope I didn't freak you out by my comments...

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

I know the feeling. I sometimes feel similar in the darkroom. Painting definitely can feel that way. I took three semesters of painting in college: Painting I, Landscape Painting and Figure Painting.

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

A friend of mine commented on a video I did of me singing and playing the guitar and keyboard. She said I looked so peaceful. I answered,
that's just how it feels.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I really feel sad when good questions and conversations with potential for learning and understanding turn into kinda hostile exchanges. I do enjoy weighing in on theses conversations but sometimes I feel like acting as a referee or a moderator and that is rather awkward because I am not a “manager” or moderator” in this section of the forum. In this thread, however, I beg your indulgence in allowing me to be a temporary or honorary moderator- after which you can throw me out!

So...lets apply some logic and firstly define “art-” at least according to the dictionary:

ärt/
noun
1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, photography, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

2.
the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.
"the visual arts"

OK, then- sounds reasonable so I think we can all agree on that.

Here's my input or philosophy regarding photography and why I love it. Photography is a science, a skill, it could be a trade or a profession or practiced just of the love and fun of it. There is no doubt in my mind that it is unequivocally an art as well, however, every photograph is not art nor does it have to be. Each of us do photography for different reasons or motivations and each of us has the right to approach our craft as we like. Some just want to make visual records or memories of our family and friends, ourselves, special occasions and just have fun making snapshots- there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! Some of us are actually artists and are seriously involved in creating outstanding imagery for self expression or for commercial purposes. Others just love to collect and tinker with all kinds of great gear-that's fine too- they may even discover their talent somewhere in the maze of pixel counting and techno-babble. Even among advanced amateurs, seasoned profession or recognized masters of photography, some photographs are created serendipitously- grabbed slices of life, happenstance, accidental or action frozen in time. Some images, I have no doubt, had appeared in the photographer's minds eye long before they appeared on the film, sensor or a sheet of photographic paper. Sometimes the art is in planing of a shot or anticipating the action and shooting at the “decisive moment”. Some photographs are totally contrived and others are spontaneous. Some photographers record history and report news and others create pure fantasy. As far as I am concerned, it's all good! Why take each other to task for doing what we want or need to do or how we approach this craft as we please. Besides, whether one is a family snap-shooter, a seasoned professional or somewhere in between there is no reason why anyone can not take a artful approach to their photography, that is, if the wish to. Some folks have the talent and savvy and some folks do not. Many have the innate talent and just need the education and stick-to-intuitiveness to develop it.

I have have been a professional photographer for over 50 years- that's how I earn my living. Sometimes I am an artist, sometimes I am just a good technician, sometimes I can express myself through my images and other times I am just a “hired gun” who is called upon to visually interpret other people's thoughts or concepts or simply execute a layout. I always try apply artfulness whenever I can but there are many instances where I just have to be satisfied with a decent representation of a product or a person- a reasonable likens. Not every portrait is a deep and revealing character study nor is ever still life a signal masterpiece- I try! Not every photograph has to be a documentary representation of reality. Not every photographer is a journalist.

Equipment? It borders on “silly”- well it's illogical to believe that equipment, in and of itself, can create art. Good equipment does, however, facilitate the creation of art and in some cases enables us to create images that would otherwise be impossible to capture without certain specialized devices. We could not make spectacular photographs of athletes suspended in midair without extremely fast shutters or electronic flash equipment with very short flash durations. We could not make intimate imagery of wildlife without our long and acute lenses. The list is long. If however, we agree with the definition of art and the art that is intrinsic in the of planning shots, anticipating action and even shooting at the decisive moment, it's obvious that there are no technologies or camera programs that can replace or replicate theses skills or talents. Automation can compute exposures, set focus, send data to lighting equipment and make camera operation more convenient but there is no computer driven or electronic program to arrange a composition, to create a mood with lighting, to inject emotion in an image, to see the dynamics of light, to capture an human expression, to tell you exactly when to release the shutter or even just tell a story. This list is very long, longer than the list of technical features- it's infinite and limited only by one's, imagination, resourcefulness, creativity and know how.

An important historical fact to consider its that many of the iconic images that we look back on with awe, the photographs made by some of the greatest photographers of all time, were done with surprisingly simple and sometimes old and well worn equipment.

Art sometimes appears in strange places. My plumber is an artist. Some years ago, prior to the digital age of photography, I was renovating a darkroom in my studio. I hired a plumber/contractor to construct a very large sink, make a ceramic-tile back splash, and install the safe-lights. I gave him some basic specifications as to size, the number and position of water taps and supplied him with temperature control valve. The water pipes were to be surface mounted and coated with an anti-corrosion paint. I was very busy on a location job so I just left him to his own devices.

When I returned two days later, I went to the darkroom and found a functional work of art. He had fabricated the sink of a battleship gray fiberglass. The copper tubing was arranged in a graphic array and coated with red epoxy paint, which stood out beautifully on a lighter gray tile. The safe-light housings, which were somewhat rusted, were repainted with in a flat black crinkle finish and all the valves and timers were perfectly located.

I worked in that darkroom for 10 years and every time I went in there, I experienced a good feeling and was inspired to get to work even on the more tedious jobs. He turned a “dungeon” into a comfortable work space. When I can appreciate a job well done, I am inspired to do good work for my clients. I was not surprised to later find out that my plumber was also a well known landscape painter and a fine furniture restorer and maker. Art is everywhere and its nice to appreciate it when you find it.

Be nice to each other- talk to each other!

Now y'all can fire me- I will go in peace!

canon Lee

Painting allows you to look deeper into the photo to see things not seen before. I feel artists paint or photograph in order to understand life on a deeper level. It allows the mind to feel as well as learn from reality..