One word: "WOW!!!" then.... And they get paid for THAT????????????
Oct 30, 2017 11:47:09 #
Dealing with Bridezilla and her mom is no fun
Million dollar expectation on a hundred dollar budget
I would rather shoo pictures of my dogs, they have never complained
Million dollar expectation on a hundred dollar budget
I would rather shoo pictures of my dogs, they have never complained
Oct 30, 2017 12:02:32 #
tuatara
Loc: Orig. NZ - currently SF area
I had a similar experience this last weekend. Step son got married, hired a friend,supposedly a "professional" photographer, he didn't dress anywhere near wedding party or guest standards, and missed so many unique shots checking his screen after almost every shot. He did so many contortions trying to get large group shots that I finally went over to him and asked why he didn't do an arc of several shots and use PhotoShop to assemble a panorama type wide angle image, "gee I never thought of that, good idea! "
So we'll see what the end results are.
When his brother married a couple of years ago he asked me to be his official photographer, I refused, not what I do, said to get someone understood that type of photography. Eventually it came down to asking guests to take the photos, mostly mobile phone snaps. I ended up being the primary photographer anyway, a lot of images of the couple goofing off during ceremony,turned out to be the most treasured ones.
The bloke this last weekend missed almost all of those checking his last shot.
So we'll see what the end results are.
When his brother married a couple of years ago he asked me to be his official photographer, I refused, not what I do, said to get someone understood that type of photography. Eventually it came down to asking guests to take the photos, mostly mobile phone snaps. I ended up being the primary photographer anyway, a lot of images of the couple goofing off during ceremony,turned out to be the most treasured ones.
The bloke this last weekend missed almost all of those checking his last shot.
Oct 30, 2017 13:02:18 #
Sounds like the kid that did our wedding 40 years ago thank God my mom was a decent photographer as all but 2 of the shots the hired guy did were throw aways. I was pissed off but my wife and my mom were livid.
Rongnongno wrote:
I was at a wedding yesterday and made a point of n... (show quote)
Oct 30, 2017 13:18:02 #
I remember recently that Verizon commercial where the wedding was being videotaped by a member of the wedding party on his cellphone with no 4LTE coverage. I’m pretty horrified at wedding pricing for the gowns, tuxes, the cake, the reception, the flowers, the invitations, so I guess many couples run out of funds by the time they hire a photographer. I just hope the unprepared, hideously non-Pro photographers in street clothes didn’t charge much.
Oct 30, 2017 14:12:12 #
I stopped shooting weddings at my fourth wedding, but am constantly ask why. The list of reasons could go on from, not being paid, to many hands in the pie by cell phone pros, finally, none of my shots were acceptable by the mother of the bride, I shot over 1000 shots. About how to hire a photographer, the bride, or other family member must vent the photographer, see some actual shots of a recent wedding, know what type of questions to ask the photographer, talk about equipment as to lenses and cameras used, and don't forget the lighting. How many shooters will be in the photographers party, and set dress standards. Personally I feel the photographer, and assistants should be like ninja's and become part of the background. There are subtle things the photographer should ask about, like the access to the venue prior to the wedding or reception for lighting set up etc. The photographer must set the rules for "proofs" and how they are to be viewed, and also the ownership of the actual shots. The photographer should "own" the photos, and reproduce the shots the family want to buy for the album.
B
B
Oct 30, 2017 14:18:57 #
Yet another “wedding photography incompetent photographer/disaster” story. Ain't this getting old- a rather hackneyed and boring topic? So...just for the record, here's why theses things happen- here's where the “blame” lies. Check it out and y'all be the judge as to how should take the blame. I think it is a combination of all of the following narratives.
Blame the consumer? It's understandable, some folks don't consider the photography an important priority in their wedding planning. Either they just don't care or they are not particularity fussy and will accept a few “snapshots” as a souvenir of their wedding celebration. Could be that the just don't want to spend the money- how simple is that? So they seek out a “bargain” or the lowest price and as the old expression goes “the gets what the pays fer”! It's not a service that folks buy every day and some just don't know the difference between professional services and hack jobs- it's unfortunate. The may expect professional work at an unrealistically low prices and are later disappointed by inferior results or poor service. Most people don't plan weddings every day nor do the make other significant purchases every day- stuff like major appliances, cars, expensive furniture, and the services of trades-persons. The SMART folks, however, do the research, shop around, ask friends and relatives for referrals and advice, check with the Better Business Bureau and familiarize themselves with brands, and well known established businesses. It's easy enough to find out about the photographers credentials, level of education and affiliations with professional organizations. When they find a wedding photographer that the are considering, they ask questions, find out if the photographer's style and working methods are comparable with their tastes and plans as well as their budget- NO SURPRISES!
Blame it on the hacks? I don't think they are looking for “easy money” or trying to rip anyone off. They just don't know what the are doing or what the are getting into and think having a decent camera is enough to undertake professional work or work that really requires an experienced professional. They might even be foolish enough to think that wedding photography is “easy money” or fun, that is, until they try it. Some quit after a few tries and some quit after a nasty and devastating law suit. Others just plod on and continue to serve the low-price end of the market. The survive because not everyone is an aficionado of fine photography or savvy consumer. So... some of y'all who are photographers or photo-enthusiasts show up at a wedding as a guest and cringe at what you observe. It is what it is! Professional photography is not a licensed or regulated business with educational or specific standards in all North American jurisdictions as it is in some European countries. To become “street legal” all one needs is a business and taxation permit and they are off to the races. Of course, they are subject to all the ordinary consumer laws but it is still up to the buyer to beware.
Blame it on the real professionals? Well- some pros think are doing well enough and don't bother with educating the general public about the advantages of professional photography. I and many of my successful colleagues and friendly competitors work hard at public relations. I regularly appear at trade and consumer shows, bridal fairs, and display my work in many ways at every opportunity. I participate and donate my time, money and services at charitable events. I buy a bit of print and broadcast advertising. I network with may other vendors in the wedding marketplace. In this business you can't sit back and wait for customers to knock on your door and then complain when the work is going to the hacks- many professional wedding photographers do that to their own detriment. At the same time you need to work diligently at satisfying you existing clients and providing the best product and services that you can. It's a hard full time job!
Blame it on digital photography and automation? Forgetaboutit. I have been at this work as a full time professional for over 5 decades. Believe me- the hacks were always out there with Speed Graphics, medium format manual cameras and all kinds of 35mm film gear. Some of them were better equipped than most pros, as to equipment inventories- that is- not know how and experience. There is always someone out there that is willing to do a cheaper and lesser job at cheaper and lesser rates and there are always customers for them- not only in photography either!
Another rant from me: Why are some of y'all so surprised when you see true professionalism? Or for that matter, so much incompetence and lack of common sense, decorum and respectfulness? Again, it is what it is- some folks have no manners and simply, are not professionals! Who comes to a wedding as a guest, let alone a professional, “dressed like a bum”?! Again, my studio and many of my cohorts, colleagues and friendly competitors have professional dress codes. My crew and I wear tuxedos or conservative business suits or blazers at all wedding celebrations. It's good public relations, it's good respectable manners and it gives folks the impression that we are there to WORK not to party! It helps us earn respect and cooperation from church officials, wedding coordinators , catering staff and other vendors.
Final rant, at least for this post! I find the term “bridezilla” rather distasteful, unkind, unsympathetic and even rather misogynistic. Emotions and sometimes tempers can run high at some weddings and the consummate PROFESSIONAL photographer has to be prepared to calm things down especially where the bride is concerned. Moms and bridesmaids can also “stress out”, not that the guys are immune to emotional swings when the pressure is on. I have had my share of grooms, dads and best men cry, faint and have a variety of emotional freak-outs. Some photographers, regardless of their artistic prowess technical and savvy are not cut out for this kinda work and should simply stay away from it for the sake of their own mental health and peace and those of their potential clients.
True enough, some folks of all genders can be overly fussy, bossy and innately uncooperative- its all part of human nature. It is just as important for the professional wedding photographer to vet his clients as it is for the clients to vet their potential photographer. If the photographer feels that he or she is personally incomparable with a potential client, especially the bride or the groom, he or she should respectfully decline the job. I have declined some assignments over the years- not to be mean and or vindictive. If I feel that I won't be able to do my best work or that I will become a distraction or disquieting a force at a wedding, I would rather not go there. Doing a job that I am not comfortable with is a disservice to the client. Perhaps another photographer would be more comparable for that particular bride of family.
I hope this helps clear up some of the issues. I am sure they well resurface someday soon but as I alluded to, this is just for the record!
Blame the consumer? It's understandable, some folks don't consider the photography an important priority in their wedding planning. Either they just don't care or they are not particularity fussy and will accept a few “snapshots” as a souvenir of their wedding celebration. Could be that the just don't want to spend the money- how simple is that? So they seek out a “bargain” or the lowest price and as the old expression goes “the gets what the pays fer”! It's not a service that folks buy every day and some just don't know the difference between professional services and hack jobs- it's unfortunate. The may expect professional work at an unrealistically low prices and are later disappointed by inferior results or poor service. Most people don't plan weddings every day nor do the make other significant purchases every day- stuff like major appliances, cars, expensive furniture, and the services of trades-persons. The SMART folks, however, do the research, shop around, ask friends and relatives for referrals and advice, check with the Better Business Bureau and familiarize themselves with brands, and well known established businesses. It's easy enough to find out about the photographers credentials, level of education and affiliations with professional organizations. When they find a wedding photographer that the are considering, they ask questions, find out if the photographer's style and working methods are comparable with their tastes and plans as well as their budget- NO SURPRISES!
Blame it on the hacks? I don't think they are looking for “easy money” or trying to rip anyone off. They just don't know what the are doing or what the are getting into and think having a decent camera is enough to undertake professional work or work that really requires an experienced professional. They might even be foolish enough to think that wedding photography is “easy money” or fun, that is, until they try it. Some quit after a few tries and some quit after a nasty and devastating law suit. Others just plod on and continue to serve the low-price end of the market. The survive because not everyone is an aficionado of fine photography or savvy consumer. So... some of y'all who are photographers or photo-enthusiasts show up at a wedding as a guest and cringe at what you observe. It is what it is! Professional photography is not a licensed or regulated business with educational or specific standards in all North American jurisdictions as it is in some European countries. To become “street legal” all one needs is a business and taxation permit and they are off to the races. Of course, they are subject to all the ordinary consumer laws but it is still up to the buyer to beware.
Blame it on the real professionals? Well- some pros think are doing well enough and don't bother with educating the general public about the advantages of professional photography. I and many of my successful colleagues and friendly competitors work hard at public relations. I regularly appear at trade and consumer shows, bridal fairs, and display my work in many ways at every opportunity. I participate and donate my time, money and services at charitable events. I buy a bit of print and broadcast advertising. I network with may other vendors in the wedding marketplace. In this business you can't sit back and wait for customers to knock on your door and then complain when the work is going to the hacks- many professional wedding photographers do that to their own detriment. At the same time you need to work diligently at satisfying you existing clients and providing the best product and services that you can. It's a hard full time job!
Blame it on digital photography and automation? Forgetaboutit. I have been at this work as a full time professional for over 5 decades. Believe me- the hacks were always out there with Speed Graphics, medium format manual cameras and all kinds of 35mm film gear. Some of them were better equipped than most pros, as to equipment inventories- that is- not know how and experience. There is always someone out there that is willing to do a cheaper and lesser job at cheaper and lesser rates and there are always customers for them- not only in photography either!
Another rant from me: Why are some of y'all so surprised when you see true professionalism? Or for that matter, so much incompetence and lack of common sense, decorum and respectfulness? Again, it is what it is- some folks have no manners and simply, are not professionals! Who comes to a wedding as a guest, let alone a professional, “dressed like a bum”?! Again, my studio and many of my cohorts, colleagues and friendly competitors have professional dress codes. My crew and I wear tuxedos or conservative business suits or blazers at all wedding celebrations. It's good public relations, it's good respectable manners and it gives folks the impression that we are there to WORK not to party! It helps us earn respect and cooperation from church officials, wedding coordinators , catering staff and other vendors.
Final rant, at least for this post! I find the term “bridezilla” rather distasteful, unkind, unsympathetic and even rather misogynistic. Emotions and sometimes tempers can run high at some weddings and the consummate PROFESSIONAL photographer has to be prepared to calm things down especially where the bride is concerned. Moms and bridesmaids can also “stress out”, not that the guys are immune to emotional swings when the pressure is on. I have had my share of grooms, dads and best men cry, faint and have a variety of emotional freak-outs. Some photographers, regardless of their artistic prowess technical and savvy are not cut out for this kinda work and should simply stay away from it for the sake of their own mental health and peace and those of their potential clients.
True enough, some folks of all genders can be overly fussy, bossy and innately uncooperative- its all part of human nature. It is just as important for the professional wedding photographer to vet his clients as it is for the clients to vet their potential photographer. If the photographer feels that he or she is personally incomparable with a potential client, especially the bride or the groom, he or she should respectfully decline the job. I have declined some assignments over the years- not to be mean and or vindictive. If I feel that I won't be able to do my best work or that I will become a distraction or disquieting a force at a wedding, I would rather not go there. Doing a job that I am not comfortable with is a disservice to the client. Perhaps another photographer would be more comparable for that particular bride of family.
I hope this helps clear up some of the issues. I am sure they well resurface someday soon but as I alluded to, this is just for the record!
Oct 30, 2017 14:20:31 #
ricardo7 wrote:
20 years ago at my brother-in-laws wedding the photographer wore
a black suit, white shirt and a tie. His two assistants wore classy black
dresses. The photographer used a Hasselblad and two backup Nikons.
An assistant carried a clip board to make sure every shot that was
planned was made. Real pros. Today, anyone can pick up a DSLR
and using the camera's "fool proof" features claim to be able to make
competent photographs. Not so!
a black suit, white shirt and a tie. His two assistants wore classy black
dresses. The photographer used a Hasselblad and two backup Nikons.
An assistant carried a clip board to make sure every shot that was
planned was made. Real pros. Today, anyone can pick up a DSLR
and using the camera's "fool proof" features claim to be able to make
competent photographs. Not so!
OOPS Wrong quote. Sorry.
Oct 30, 2017 14:21:55 #
JR45 wrote:
I attended a wedding last month at witch there was... (show quote)
I'd be surprised if the photos you order are overexposed. This must be their way of putting "Proofs" on-line without enticing people to download them themselves.
Oct 30, 2017 14:30:19 #
I used to shoot weddings and portraits. I long ago gave it up because even a pro can do no right. No matter how beautiful the shot, the (usually) bride seldom likes how she looks. This holds true for the paying subject of a portrait. I will only shoot a wedding now if I am a guest and just taking additional shots for my friend or relative. I will only shoot portraits now if I am hired to do so and am hiring a model. I much prefer products because they have no opinions. And when I am shooting products, the art director or other person with the opinion signs off on the work as I shoot.
Oct 30, 2017 14:49:30 #
Shot over 50 weddings, always in coat & tie. Always went to the rehearsal to observe, and make suggestions/ask questions so as to have heads up as to what was happening and when. This took a lot of guessing and stress out of the actual event.
Oct 30, 2017 15:26:54 #
There's a great web site devoted to these IWACs. http://www.youarenotaphotographer.com
It's dedicated to fauxtographers.
--Bob
It's dedicated to fauxtographers.
--Bob
Rongnongno wrote:
I was at a wedding yesterday and made a point of n... (show quote)
Oct 30, 2017 15:31:08 #
Like all of us I have attended a large number of weddings. My own was shot with a Rollei and all B&W in 1966. Today's extravaganza weddings require all the skills and more of a photojournalist, a sports and portrait pro. I have watched teams of three dressed in dark suits and cocktail dresses be everywhere and elicit smiles from the most grumpy Uncle (taking pride in it). This is the most important (and hopefully singular) day in the Couple's lives. And as a 51 year married man, I will say that the two things that endure from our wedding is that 51 year old B&W wedding album of a scared girl and an all potential and no cattle guy in a Good Humor Uniform. All the gifts besides two silver goblets are long gone and mostly forgotten (but they helped get us started together).
My suggestion for the wedding pros still active is to suggest and facilitate gifts toward a Photographer's Gift Card as part of the Wedding Registry. I have gifted several times toward hiring a pro as part of my declining to shoot a wedding. If couples are brash enough to solicit funds toward a Honeymoon (yeah, I remember that, too), I think the Photographer's funding is entirely legit and the value lasts longer than anything else one could give to a Couple. It is also a possible group gift that close relatives could combine on that would be most welcome, I'm sure.
Go ahead, make it a trend! (Also known as Marketing!)
My suggestion for the wedding pros still active is to suggest and facilitate gifts toward a Photographer's Gift Card as part of the Wedding Registry. I have gifted several times toward hiring a pro as part of my declining to shoot a wedding. If couples are brash enough to solicit funds toward a Honeymoon (yeah, I remember that, too), I think the Photographer's funding is entirely legit and the value lasts longer than anything else one could give to a Couple. It is also a possible group gift that close relatives could combine on that would be most welcome, I'm sure.
Go ahead, make it a trend! (Also known as Marketing!)
Oct 30, 2017 15:49:15 #
It's certainly a memorable day, but the most important day? I hope not :) seriously I imagine most of us have been or are married I'm pretty sure we have our own idea's about the most important days of our lives and some of us may even share that still with our partners.
For many brides and grooms the wedding is just one massive expense catering to the desires of their parents and a bunch of half known well wishers. Most of it matters barely an iota you can strip it all away and all that really matters is each other.
If your not sure ask your other halves :) (A great phrase which expresses what its really about.)
For many brides and grooms the wedding is just one massive expense catering to the desires of their parents and a bunch of half known well wishers. Most of it matters barely an iota you can strip it all away and all that really matters is each other.
If your not sure ask your other halves :) (A great phrase which expresses what its really about.)
Oct 30, 2017 16:01:50 #
Ron, I couldn't agree with you more on this one. I had my own wedding band for over 30+ years before retiring. Years earlier I've seen wedding photogs appearing in classy suites with Hassies to D3x's, D4's, etc. They moved around the church and reception halls taking shots like choreography to a dancer (not everyone of them fit that bill, but most did). Within the past several years...what the hell happened!!! My last reception playing gig (came out of retirement for a friend) I actually saw 2 photo assistants with dark jeans and black T-shirts that had big letters "I Shoot Raw." And this gig was at a Country club. I tried doing the wedding gig thing and decided my patience was overtaxing at an alarming rate so that was the end of that. Oh well, I may be a dated old fart, but I'll stick to shooting for family and friends and that's it!!
Oct 30, 2017 16:58:48 #
hookedupin2005
Loc: Northwestern New Mexico
When my step daughter got married, her and her husband hired a lady photographer... She showed up, dressed appropriately,stayed out of the way of everyone, yet was always in the right spot at the right time..Very professional. I saw her lugging three cameras around, so she had all the right equipment. And her pictures were spot on beautiful.
Don't know what she charged, but she was worth it.
Don't know what she charged, but she was worth it.
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