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Extension tubes v. Close up Rings
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Oct 29, 2017 06:58:05   #
Robert Bailey Loc: Canada
 
No one has mentioned a "bellows unit" yet.
They have come way down in price since eBay has opened up the market to Asian suppliers.

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Oct 29, 2017 07:13:19   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
photodoc16 wrote:
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo show that the longer the focal length of a macro lens the less soft the image would be using close up rings. Longer than 100mm and the rings would be fine and shorter than 100mm, the extension tubes would be preferable. At 100 mm it would be a toss up. Of course, the extension tubes are much more expensive than the rings.
Does anyone have the experience to comment on this information and, if so, what would you choose for my Tokina 100mm to get to greater than 1:1 magnification?
Thanks,
Photodoc16
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo sho... (show quote)


Did I mention that with Tubes, Bellows, Reversed lens, especially shorter lenses you may have working distances between lens and subject of only 0.25"? Lighting can be tricky.

I've done some focus stacking. I found I can do it fine without a lot of specialized equipment or software. It just is a slow process. At least a macro lens, tripod, and Photoshop (there are other programs for stacking as well).

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Oct 29, 2017 07:30:22   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
photodoc16 wrote:
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo show that the longer the focal length of a macro lens the less soft the image would be using close up rings. Longer than 100mm and the rings would be fine and shorter than 100mm, the extension tubes would be preferable. At 100 mm it would be a toss up. Of course, the extension tubes are much more expensive than the rings.
Does anyone have the experience to comment on this information and, if so, what would you choose for my Tokina 100mm to get to greater than 1:1 magnification?
Thanks,
Photodoc16
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo sho... (show quote)


The first part of the statement is baloney. The focal length of a macro lens at 1:1 only changes minimum working distance. He/she may have meant that using tubes with macro lenses with greater focal lengths is more difficult to handhold given the increased length. It’s unclear what he/she meant by “rings” as extension tubes are sometimes referred to as rings. If the reference was to a filter-like device fitted to the front lens element then the advantage would be smaller size and no loss of light. That’s assuming that a high quality diopter is being used. These can run several hundred dollars. As Martin said, Raynox is an economical option.

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Oct 29, 2017 07:34:41   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
photodoc16 wrote:
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo show that the longer the focal length of a macro lens the less soft the image would be using close up rings. Longer than 100mm and the rings would be fine and shorter than 100mm, the extension tubes would be preferable. At 100 mm it would be a toss up. Of course, the extension tubes are much more expensive than the rings.
Does anyone have the experience to comment on this information and, if so, what would you choose for my Tokina 100mm to get to greater than 1:1 magnification?
Thanks,
Photodoc16
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo sho... (show quote)


If by rings your talking about close up filters for the front of your lens, then I always used extension tubes because I never found a quality close up filter/lens. But be aware, extension tubes diminish your depth of field, focusing on the entire bug, etc. becomes critical.

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Oct 29, 2017 07:37:35   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
billnikon wrote:
If by rings your talking about close up filters for the front of your lens, then I always used extension tubes because I never found a quality close up filter/lens. But be aware, extension tubes diminish your depth of field, focusing on the entire bug, etc. becomes critical.


Plus the aforementioned loss of light, requiring a change in exposure or supplemental lighting

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Oct 29, 2017 07:45:51   #
Largobob
 
martinfisherphoto wrote:
First off your Tokina 100mm is an extremely fine macro lens, I've taken thousand of shots with mine. If you were to get a close up lens I would only recommend the Raynox DCR 150 or 250, http://extreme-macro.co.uk/raynox-adapter-techniques/ The only problem with using this lens and any other close up ring is when your focused to true 1:1 with your macro lens your only 6 inches from the subject. To get higher magnification with the close up lens attached your focusing distance for higher magnification with the DCR150 shrinks to about 4 inches, and with the DCR 250 even further to about 2 inches for maximum magnification. This in turn reduces your depth of field and also requires a flash to get proper lighting and to avoid camera shake. I would recommend a full set of tubes First, which comes in a 3 piece set. This allows you to add one at a time if you chose, slowly increasing your magnification. I could rattle on, but suggest learning how to use your Tokina first at true 1:1 with a flash then venture into greater magnifications. Stop over at the Macro site here on the hogg and pick the brains of the local macro fanatics. Good group and very helpful.
PS a 100mm macro lens plus a full set of tubes gets you 2:1 only.. Adding the DCR250 on the end gets you about 4:1 but your depth of field is reduced to the thickness of fine rice paper. Guys that venture to greater magnifications are also stacking their photos, extremely time consuming and a full understanding of the macro field, additional software, not to mention tripod, more lighting, a whole different ball game..
First off your Tokina 100mm is an extremely fine m... (show quote)






Another consideration: Extension tubes contain no glass. Cheap glass could potentially add distortion to your images.....all they do is move your lens farther out from your sensor. I'm guessing this causes the diameter of the "circle of light" to increase....thus the sensor only "sees" the center of a now larger image ... and tht = magnification. I have been pleased with my inexpensive set of three rings (36mm, 20mm, 12mm) made by Kenko (from B&H Photo I believe). If you purchase a set of extension tubes, be sure they are designed specifically for your camera (mine say Auto Ext Tube Set fNikon AF/Digital). My set extends all the electrical contacts from camera to lens (AF, Aperature, etc). I can select to use one, several or all tubes to get the desired reach. My extension tubes allow me to focus my AF-S VR Nikkor 70 - 200mm f2.8 G IF-ED much closer to the subject than it was designed to do. Great for wildflowers, etc.

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Oct 29, 2017 08:07:52   #
mborn Loc: Massachusetts
 
I use the Canon Close-up filter on my 70-200 mm lens It does take time to get used to focusing. On my other macro lenses, I use extension tube

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Oct 29, 2017 08:25:18   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Is an extension bellows an option? I don't know if they are still made or not. Not likely to pass any electrical signal between lens and the camera though...

Best,
Todd Ferguson

photodoc16 wrote:
Richard,
I guess I must be. There doesn't seem to be any other option except the extension tubes and the screw on filter types. Is there?
Thanks,
Photodoc16 (Richard)

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Oct 29, 2017 08:34:09   #
DaveC Loc: Illinois
 
I’ve tried pretty much all of these methods. In theory, extension tubes will introduce some abberations since most lenses are designed for minimum abberstions when focused at infinity and the rings move the focusing distance much closer. In practice, when used on a true macro lens I have never noticed any. I’ve never tried them on a non-macro.

For the screw-on diopters, the low-cost, single-element ones sold introduce serious and obvious aberrations. As mentioned, there are achromatic ones available, these are much more expensive and worth every penny. Canon makes them, I think I’ve seen another brand but don’t remember where Nikon had them at one time, but they have discontinued them. They are what I have. Don’t even think about the single element ones, you are wasting your money.
I have combined extension tubes and screw-on diopters on a Nikon 105 micro lens with good success, but realize that working distances are getting short.

You can c

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Oct 29, 2017 08:59:36   #
alfeng Loc: Out where the West commences ...
 
photodoc16 wrote:
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo show that the longer the focal length of a macro lens the less soft the image would be using close up rings. Longer than 100mm and the rings would be fine and shorter than 100mm, the extension tubes would be preferable. At 100 mm it would be a toss up. Of course, the extension tubes are much more expensive than the rings.
Does anyone have the experience to comment on this information and, if so, what would you choose for my Tokina 100mm to get to greater than 1:1 magnification?
Thanks,
Photodoc16
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo sho... (show quote)

I have (and, have used) Macro lenses, bellows, extension tubes, and close-up lenses ...

BUT, I don't do what many consider to be Macro photography ...

So, what I say is based on my just wanting to get a little closer to the subject.

With extension tubes, if you have a FLAT FIELD lens which your Tokina lens should be, then you should not expect any distortion ...

IMO, this is ONLY a factor if you are photographing objects which clearly have perpendicular lines -- e.g., stamps.

With close-up lenses, you may-or-may-not realize some barrel distortion or pin cushioning -- it REALLY depends on the lens ...

I was very skeptical (aka "snobbish") about close-up lenses; but, I wanted to see if I could get closer to an object while using a fixed-lens TLR. The lens was a 75mm f3.5 Tessar formula. I think I probably stopped it down to f5.6, maybe f8.0. I thought the results were excellent; but, THAT was contingent on my taking the time to focus carefully on the object.

IMO, if you are not trying to capture the image of a FLAT object, then it really doesn't matter if you opt for close-up lenses because the edges will not be in focus and the distortion will be minimal.

The huge advantage of using close-up lenses is that your autofocus will still function ... but, you should probably be focusing in manual mode.

On the other hand, the lens's autofocus will not function with "dumb" hollow extension tubes or a set of bellows; so unless you pony up for tubes with communication pins your camera will not communicate with your lens ... again, you should probably be focusing in manual mode.

So, just exactly what types of objects were you planning on taking MACRO images of?

Stamps?

Coins?

Flowers?

Bugs?

Other?

BTW. I eventually opted to mount a 105mm "enlarger" lens on my bellows rather than trying to use the bellows with any of my other lenses.



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Oct 29, 2017 09:27:47   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
photodoc16 wrote:
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo show that the longer the focal length of a macro lens the less soft the image would be using close up rings. Longer than 100mm and the rings would be fine and shorter than 100mm, the extension tubes would be preferable. At 100 mm it would be a toss up. Of course, the extension tubes are much more expensive than the rings.
Does anyone have the experience to comment on this information and, if so, what would you choose for my Tokina 100mm to get to greater than 1:1 magnification?
Thanks,
Photodoc16
I was told today by a Canon rep at a Photoexpo sho... (show quote)


Here are some facts:

Diopter filters shorten the focal length of the lens - but there is NO light loss - that is why they are usually preferred on longer focal length lenses. The stronger the diopter, the more focal length and image quality you loose. Two element diopters filters are much preferred and are more costly.

With tubes, you loose light at the sensor.

If I were going larger than 1:1, I would use an enlarger lens in reverse on a bellows.
The smaller lens profile of enlarger lenses makes lighting much easier in the close distances involved.

I have also used a pellicle mirror in front of the lens with the lighting at right angles to provide coaxial illumination to the subject. I have done 10:1 mag. this way of electronic circuits using an 8X10 camera.
In this set-up we used a Zeiss macro lens in reverse.

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Oct 29, 2017 09:32:20   #
Fotomacher Loc: Toronto
 
RichardTaylor wrote:
Do you mean screw on dioptre lenses that attach to the lens filter ring?


The diopter rings usually are made with cheap glass. You’ll get much better results using your good lens with extension tubes.

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Oct 29, 2017 09:39:41   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Fotomacher wrote:
The diopter rings usually are made with cheap glass. You’ll get much better results using your good lens with extension tubes.


Ever hear of the Canon 500 and 250 D's ??

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Oct 29, 2017 09:42:42   #
OddJobber Loc: Portland, OR
 
lamiaceae wrote:
Did I mention that with Tubes, Bellows, Reversed lens, especially shorter lenses you may have working distances between lens and subject of only 0.25"?


Yup. Got a cobweb stuck to my lens.

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Oct 29, 2017 09:43:06   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Robert Bailey wrote:
No one has mentioned a "bellows unit" yet.
They have come way down in price since eBay has opened up the market to Asian suppliers.



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