Amateur or Beginning Photographers: Upgrade Or Not? (Page 3): No it does not, Program ("auto") mode, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and manual mode.

rdubreuil Loc: Dummer, NH USA

jccash wrote:

Does the D850 have full auto? In others words, if the “green” auto setting like a D7200 has an option on the D850?

I like the button settings on the D500 which I think is similar on the D850. No “green” full automyiotion. But lots of custom settings...

No it does not, Program ("auto") mode, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and manual mode.

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

ltcarizona wrote:

I post this question for discussion for those beginners in photography regarding upgrading cameras. This is based on other questions I have seen posted on this site. I understand everyone has the opinions and there are those who have to have the best. But I always look at this question based on your level of photography expertise. I have gone thru the process and I am glad I had a professional to work with. I had the opportunity in my time to learn from photography instructors, professional photographers, and Playboy. It really does make a difference!

For example a person has a Nikon D7200 and is thinking about upgrading to the Nikon D850. Money is not a problem. So what do we tell him that is realistic and best for him?

Since this person has said money is no problem why not just tell him to buy it since he can grow into it even if he does not have the experience, skills, or needs the abilities the new camera offers him for what he wants to do with it. Heck why not just tell him to buy a Leica or the medium format cameras. But?

The one thing every photographer knows is that an amateur or beginner has to start somewhere. While camera are so smart they basically become a high price fix lens rangefinder camera with the professional look. Therefore until the amateur or beginner has the following I do not recommend going into the high priced cameras: 1. Developed level of photography basics through some on hands training with another experienced photographer. 2. The photography he is going to be undertaking or specialize in needs an advanced pro level camera. 3. And he is willing to spend the money on the level of glass or lenses that support that camera to its fullest.

After all why spend money on a 44 Magnum when the 9mm can shoot more rounds more accurately and be just a deadly. Maybe because you want to be the big boy on the block. But in real life shooting cases the 9 mm for rounds on target accuracy would win out. Don't forget the other guy will be shooting at you.

So much the same with photography in a way. Right now I own a Nikon D810 after owning since 1973 a variety of Nikon and Canon film, FX and DX cameras; from the very expensive to least. I know that the camera doesn't truly make the photographer but his skills as such. A entry level DSLR can win photography contests just like the professional cameras, and that is a fact.

So I ask myself should I upgrade to the D850? My answer is NO. Why you ask? Because I am a landscape photographer mostly, do not take astrophotography, but still could with the D810, do not really need the extra MP, don't need the little faster motor drive, etc. So for me I will wait for something else to come along. Here I am looking a my needs as a photographer ever though I could buy the most expensive camera in the world; though it would not make me a better photographer. I could go on with other points that I think others to this forum could make.

SO, What does everyone else think?

I post this question for discussion for those begi... (show quote)

I think 99% of all camera's are better than 98% of all photographers.

Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast

Great points, all, good comments all. Money no object? Heck yeah, buy anything you want but one thing is certain, the camera doesn't make the photographer, its only a tool, the best tools always help but only if you know how to use them. I would love to have worked with a professional, especially starting out, versus watching a video....on hands, in field experience learning techniques with a pro beats a video any day. Sadly, not all will be able to work with a pro but hands on classes and videos are available. I offer this versus a gun analogy....I learned to fly not by watching a video but by an instructor there to guide me, glad I did. Flying and photography is only analogous in that its best to learn the basics before you get into the more complex. But for now I will have to continue to practice with what cameras I have, although not cheap for my budget, but definitely not nearly in the 850 class....'If you got it, flaunt it, may not be a good photographer but at least you'll look the part' 🙂🙂

BJW

I’m all for working with the best tools one can possibly get. I’m in favor of moviing from one “tool” to another to get better results or to accomodate one’s needs , such as lighter or more compact equipment. I purposefully use the term “moving” rather than “upgrading” because I have found that a new “upgrade” is called that but more for the new bells and whistles that manufacturers incorporate or try to improve on which have little if anything to do with the fundamental craft of photography. An upgrade to me would mean a different camera or lens that helps me become a better photographer, that simplifies the photographic experience, that encourages me to shoot more frequently, that adds to my comprehension of what I must do to produce a better image. Some (not all) of the factors that define a real “upgrade” to my mind would be:

1: smaller, lighter, more compact equipment
2: In body and in lense image stabilization that’s so good that I rarely have to bring a tripod anymore.
3: Faster frames per second and bigger buffers that don’t fill up so quickly especially for shooting sports and wildlife
4: Camera ergonomics designed in such a way whereby all controls that affect correct and creative exposure are easily accessible on the camera without digging through multiple levels of menus and submenus, including a fuuly articulared screen with touch control.
5: a camera that lets the photographer focus on the fundamentals of his or her craft and skills and doesn’t do the creative thinking for him or her.
6: The best glass you can get.
7: Continuing education via online courses and workshops with top notch photographers which will help improve our photographic skills to get the most benefit from the “upgrade”.

My 2 cents.

BJW

CatMarley Loc: North Carolina

jerryc41 wrote:

"Money is not a problem." That mean a lot. Better equipment offers advantages over lesser gear. If someone is leaning toward a purchase and can afford it, I see no reason to talk him out of it.

Don't you think that having something very complicated can be discouraging to the point of never learning it? I have a wealthy friend who thought she wanted to learn how to use a computer, so she went out and got this 17 inch monster laptop, top of the line machine. Unfortunately she could never learn how to use it, and finally gave it to her ex husband. I think beginners are better off with simple basic equipment that they can learn easily and enjoy, and upgrade when their taste for a deeper engagement with the hobby arises.

BlueMorel Loc: Southwest Michigan

Speaking as someone whose budget barely allows getting the basics for my camera like filters and tripod, I can tell you that if I won the lottery I would go for the best I could get for whatever photography style I was into and the best lenses. I'd probably look into mirrorless for the weight factor then learn to use it based on my present skills and experience. So what if it has a learning curve? That's half the fun.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

ltcarizona wrote:

I post this question for discussion for those beginners in photography regarding upgrading cameras. This is based on other questions I have seen posted on this site. I understand everyone has the opinions and there are those who have to have the best. But I always look at this question based on your level of photography expertise. I have gone thru the process and I am glad I had a professional to work with. I had the opportunity in my time to learn from photography instructors, professional photographers, and Playboy. It really does make a difference!

For example a person has a Nikon D7200 and is thinking about upgrading to the Nikon D850. Money is not a problem. So what do we tell him that is realistic and best for him?

Since this person has said money is no problem why not just tell him to buy it since he can grow into it even if he does not have the experience, skills, or needs the abilities the new camera offers him for what he wants to do with it. Heck why not just tell him to buy a Leica or the medium format cameras. But?

The one thing every photographer knows is that an amateur or beginner has to start somewhere. While camera are so smart they basically become a high price fix lens rangefinder camera with the professional look. Therefore until the amateur or beginner has the following I do not recommend going into the high priced cameras: 1. Developed level of photography basics through some on hands training with another experienced photographer. 2. The photography he is going to be undertaking or specialize in needs an advanced pro level camera. 3. And he is willing to spend the money on the level of glass or lenses that support that camera to its fullest.

After all why spend money on a 44 Magnum when the 9mm can shoot more rounds more accurately and be just a deadly. Maybe because you want to be the big boy on the block. But in real life shooting cases the 9 mm for rounds on target accuracy would win out. Don't forget the other guy will be shooting at you.

So much the same with photography in a way. Right now I own a Nikon D810 after owning since 1973 a variety of Nikon and Canon film, FX and DX cameras; from the very expensive to least. I know that the camera doesn't truly make the photographer but his skills as such. A entry level DSLR can win photography contests just like the professional cameras, and that is a fact.

So I ask myself should I upgrade to the D850? My answer is NO. Why you ask? Because I am a landscape photographer mostly, do not take astrophotography, but still could with the D810, do not really need the extra MP, don't need the little faster motor drive, etc. So for me I will wait for something else to come along. Here I am looking a my needs as a photographer ever though I could buy the most expensive camera in the world; though it would not make me a better photographer. I could go on with other points that I think others to this forum could make.

SO, What does everyone else think?

I post this question for discussion for those begi... (show quote)

My own beliefs vary much from yours. I believe there are lots of bells and whistles on cameras like the D850 but the basic usage is not a lot different from using a Nikon D3300. It is STILL aperture, shutter speed and ISO. Having said that if a person wants to start his camera life with a Nikon D850 or even an F5 and has the money to spend then why not. Those cameras give the user choices that are not there with the beginner cameras. There is no rule that says a beginner must start off with a beginner camera. Some people excel at what they do and will work hard to know the ins and outs to using the extra bells and whistles of the professional series camera. Other people will always look like beginners even after 50 years of photography. Why can't we leave it up to the buyer/user to decide what he/she wants in the end product?

With respect, your analogy of the 44 Magnum compared to a 9mm is just horse pucky. These are two firearms that are used for completely different purposes. If you have a 9mm pistol for self defense then you have a fine caliber provided you select ammunition designed for self defense and learn how to use it effectively. The 44 Magnum was designed more for a hunting handgun and has taken game up to elephant and cape buffalo in the hands of a skilled shooter. While it has been used for self defense most people would not select that caliber as a specific self defense gun. It is heavy, holds six cartridges compared to the general 13-17 of a 9mm, and has a ferocious recoil for most people who don't shoot often. For many people the 44 Magnum is a one shot revolver and they have had enough. Muzzle blast is also ferocious as well unless the cartridge is loaded down to approximate a 44 Special cartridge level of power. It simply isn't fair to compare cartridges of totally different power for totally different firearm uses. Each is good for its designated uses. I doubt you would choose a 9mm for a back up gun while hunting grizzly bear.

Dennis

crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada

CatMarley wrote:

Don't you think that having something very complic... (show quote)

Most cameras (even high end) have some form of an auto mode. The camera is only as complicated as you want to make it.

I picked up a Rebel the other day and could not figure out how to use it (i shoot manual). I learned on a 70D so I was used to the menus and buttons there. Moving to a 6D and 5DmkIV was seamless.

However, i could shoot them all on auto :-)

MrGNY Loc: New York

I am going to look at your question from this perspective. If the said person shoots good photo's and wants to make the jump to full frame from the D7200 to D850 so be it. The logic being if you have the funds to make the leap go all out pay once cry once. Cover all the bases. Over the course of learning both professionally and non professionally how many bodies does a person buy? You read on the boards how a person has this body for this and this body for that and this is my travel camera etc. A person who does photography professionally (aka being paid) has a multiple cameras in there kit.

It comes down to the person buying the camera making the decision as to what they need or want. The worst thing you can do is discourage someone, you can try to steer them if they ask for an opinion. But they may just surprise you because of the feature set on the camera and they aren't intimidated by it.

wapiti Loc: round rock, texas

Peterff wrote:

Do we really need gun analogies for this discussion? Can you even get bump stocks for cameras? Most people that have their photo taken don't die, unless you're Princess Diana of course. Or possibly Kim Kardashian who merely thinks that she has.

This makes no sense and is certainly not applicable to the OP. Sorry Peterff. Just realized that this quote was not yours.

wapiti Loc: round rock, texas

twiceeagles wrote:

There is a place for the anti-gun political garbage on UHH. If you hit the all section and go to the Chit-Chat area, there is a place for non camera discussion. There is at least one of us who doesn't like to hear a bunch of liberal crapola.

lwerthe1mer Loc: Birmingham, Alabama

tdekany wrote:

First of all, I’m all for the best, but when I see IQ mentioned as a reason, well if you take snapshots, your pictures will still be snapshots. How many people do prints and print big? All one needs to do is search the web to see what can be done with something like the D3100 in the hands of a talented photographer. There is too much emphasis on gear, not enough on improving our skills. M2c

Bravo!!! Skills, not GAS!!!

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

My personal approach has always been, get the best you can afford. Then, the onus is on your skills. It's not limited by the equipment you are using.
--Bob

ltcarizona wrote:

I post this question for discussion for those beginners in photography regarding upgrading cameras. This is based on other questions I have seen posted on this site. I understand everyone has the opinions and there are those who have to have the best. But I always look at this question based on your level of photography expertise. I have gone thru the process and I am glad I had a professional to work with. I had the opportunity in my time to learn from photography instructors, professional photographers, and Playboy. It really does make a difference!

For example a person has a Nikon D7200 and is thinking about upgrading to the Nikon D850. Money is not a problem. So what do we tell him that is realistic and best for him?

Since this person has said money is no problem why not just tell him to buy it since he can grow into it even if he does not have the experience, skills, or needs the abilities the new camera offers him for what he wants to do with it. Heck why not just tell him to buy a Leica or the medium format cameras. But?

The one thing every photographer knows is that an amateur or beginner has to start somewhere. While camera are so smart they basically become a high price fix lens rangefinder camera with the professional look. Therefore until the amateur or beginner has the following I do not recommend going into the high priced cameras: 1. Developed level of photography basics through some on hands training with another experienced photographer. 2. The photography he is going to be undertaking or specialize in needs an advanced pro level camera. 3. And he is willing to spend the money on the level of glass or lenses that support that camera to its fullest.

After all why spend money on a 44 Magnum when the 9mm can shoot more rounds more accurately and be just a deadly. Maybe because you want to be the big boy on the block. But in real life shooting cases the 9 mm for rounds on target accuracy would win out. Don't forget the other guy will be shooting at you.

So much the same with photography in a way. Right now I own a Nikon D810 after owning since 1973 a variety of Nikon and Canon film, FX and DX cameras; from the very expensive to least. I know that the camera doesn't truly make the photographer but his skills as such. A entry level DSLR can win photography contests just like the professional cameras, and that is a fact.

So I ask myself should I upgrade to the D850? My answer is NO. Why you ask? Because I am a landscape photographer mostly, do not take astrophotography, but still could with the D810, do not really need the extra MP, don't need the little faster motor drive, etc. So for me I will wait for something else to come along. Here I am looking a my needs as a photographer ever though I could buy the most expensive camera in the world; though it would not make me a better photographer. I could go on with other points that I think others to this forum could make.

SO, What does everyone else think?

I post this question for discussion for those begi... (show quote)

dhowland

Tough one. Like many (or most) my budget has forced me to really think through what gear I buy (and how, like waiting for sales or buying refurbished or used). But if someone has enough money to buy big right off the bat, as a beginner, they would theoretically also have the money to buy up as their skills improve. If I were rich I'd probably opt for the best (or among the best) consumer or least pro camera, knowing that if my skills grow, I'd go up. Starting off with the most expensive top-notch gear, which is also often the most complex, might actually slow you down ... taking you to a point where the tech has advanced markedly ... or even discouraging you. By starting a bit more lean, you could get yourself to a point where you are ready to pony up real cash for some truly beautiful new gear equipped with the latest advancements.

lwerthe1mer Loc: Birmingham, Alabama

tdekany wrote:

First of all, I’m all for the best, but when I see IQ mentioned as a reason, well if you take snapshots, your pictures will still be snapshots. How many people do prints and print big? All one needs to do is search the web to see what can be done with something like the D3100 in the hands of a talented photographer. There is too much emphasis on gear, not enough on improving our skills. M2c

Bravo!!! More emphasis on skills than GAS!!!