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Tilting wall/buildings
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Sep 24, 2017 17:35:19   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Charles 46277 wrote:
One of the most important differences between the view cameras Ansel Adams used, and the smaller cameras such as 35mm (which he also occasionally used) is that a view camera can do what you say. By making the back(the film or sensor) perfectly perpendicular to the ground (parallel to the building), you get upright buildings. Then, by raising the front of the camera (the board with a lens on it), you can move to the upper part of the image (where the top of the building is, leaving out the unwanted ground area). Behold! Straight building, top to bottom. You can also get a similar effect regarding lines that are horizontal in the picture, by swinging the back one way or the other to make the two ends of a building (or whatever) look more (or less) equal in height, when one is farther away. If you shift the whole image to one side by moving the back that way, so the part of the glass in the picture with your reflection moves outside the frame, you vanish from the image.

The advent of 35mm in journalism and later in general commercial use meant we had to get used to tilting buildings--and often we exaggerate the effect on purpose. But yes, Photoshop has perspective correction you can use after shooting--I never tried it. The format of your camera (full frame or less) does not matter.

If you really want to correct perspective in the camera, as you say (I suspect the quality is better? Maybe not...), you can do that for much less money than a zillion-dollar tilt lens. Just buy an old view camera (many are cheaper than that lens), and attach your Canon to the back with an adapter made for that (from eBay--4x5 back adapter for Canon, around $100). The 4x5s called "field cameras" are smaller and much lighter than studio models, and the ones called press cameras (such as Graphic) are meant to be used either on tripod or hand-held. But that was when men were men, especially journalists--by today's standards, the press cameras are quite hefty. You see them in old movies. And press cameras do not have quite as much correction movement as a full-featured view camera. The adapter that fits your Canon to a view camera does not work with wide angle Canon lenses, though--it puts too much distance between sensor and lens. In that case, just use a wide angle large format lens on the view camera with 4x5 film, and give the Canon a rest. In any case the setup will use a large format lens--not the Canon lenses. Then when the film is developed, you can scan it and resume digital festivities.

The large format digital setup requires a view camera lens 125mm or above, because of the minimum distance from lens to sensor. The angle of view for any 125mm lens is exactly the same on your digital camera, if it really is 125mm and not "equivalent to 125mm". My avatar picture here beside my name, of the rex begonias, was shot with this setup, using a big studio lens on an 8x10 camera and a Canon digital 650D camera on back.
One of the most important differences between the ... (show quote)

I would think that natural perspective would have to be really bothersome for someone to lug a view camera around and go through the develop-scan process for each image.

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Sep 24, 2017 18:00:20   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
You can get shift adapters for most mirrorless cameras to use with standard lenses. These will give some degree of perspective control on camera. I think they work best with M4/3 cameras. Fotodiox have them for a variety of cameras and lens mounts. I think one be my next purchase. I'll post how it turns out.

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Sep 24, 2017 18:14:12   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Charles 46277 wrote:
One of the most important differences between the view cameras Ansel Adams used, and the smaller cameras such as 35mm (which he also occasionally used) is that a view camera can do what you say. By making the back(the film or sensor) perfectly perpendicular to the ground (parallel to the building), you get upright buildings. Then, by raising the front of the camera (the board with a lens on it), you can move to the upper part of the image (where the top of the building is, leaving out the unwanted ground area). Behold! Straight building, top to bottom. You can also get a similar effect regarding lines that are horizontal in the picture, by swinging the back one way or the other to make the two ends of a building (or whatever) look more (or less) equal in height, when one is farther away. If you shift the whole image to one side by moving the back that way, so the part of the glass in the picture with your reflection moves outside the frame, you vanish from the image.

The advent of 35mm in journalism and later in general commercial use meant we had to get used to tilting buildings--and often we exaggerate the effect on purpose. But yes, Photoshop has perspective correction you can use after shooting--I never tried it. The format of your camera (full frame or less) does not matter.

If you really want to correct perspective in the camera, as you say (I suspect the quality is better? Maybe not...), you can do that for much less money than a zillion-dollar tilt lens. Just buy an old view camera (many are cheaper than that lens), and attach your Canon to the back with an adapter made for that (from eBay--4x5 back adapter for Canon, around $100). The 4x5s called "field cameras" are smaller and much lighter than studio models, and the ones called press cameras (such as Graphic) are meant to be used either on tripod or hand-held. But that was when men were men, especially journalists--by today's standards, the press cameras are quite hefty. You see them in old movies. And press cameras do not have quite as much correction movement as a full-featured view camera. The adapter that fits your Canon to a view camera does not work with wide angle Canon lenses, though--it puts too much distance between sensor and lens. In that case, just use a wide angle large format lens on the view camera with 4x5 film, and give the Canon a rest. In any case the setup will use a large format lens--not the Canon lenses. Then when the film is developed, you can scan it and resume digital festivities.

The large format digital setup requires a view camera lens 125mm or above, because of the minimum distance from lens to sensor. The angle of view for any 125mm lens is exactly the same on your digital camera, if it really is 125mm and not "equivalent to 125mm". My avatar picture here beside my name, of the rex begonias, was shot with this setup, using a big studio lens on an 8x10 camera and a Canon digital 650D camera on back.
One of the most important differences between the ... (show quote)


A quick look on ebay found this for pentax

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pentax-DSLR-Digital-Back-Adapter-For-4x5-Large-Format-Camera-K50-K20D-K7-K5-K3-/282090424093?hash=item41ade6471d:g:yx0AAOSwvTBZp39a
This adapter allows you use all Pentax digital camera(PK mount) to adapt on a 4x5" large format camera, moveable designed to allow you to shoot 5 images horizontal and combine as a panorama image by software, made by professional large format manufacturer-Shen Hao, quality is grurenteed!

hmm so it's $200 for that + the camera ...

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Sep 24, 2017 19:26:49   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
dyximan wrote:
My question is when taking a cityscape with A crop sensor camera compared to a full frame, Will one leave the building relatively plum level and square and the other tilt or bow more to a counterpoint. My understanding is that the crop sensor like the Camera I use D5300 did tilt the buildings in. My next question is I have read that this can be taken care of in post processing. But was curious if there is anything that can be done within the camera itself and or lens, I read something about a tilt shift lens.
Thank you for your help and advice
My question is when taking a cityscape with A cro... (show quote)


A tilt shift lens is the better solution. But to my knowledge, there are no T/S lenses specifically for crop sensor cameras. The ones out there will work, but the crop effect will limit your angle of view.

DXO Viewpoint III is the best software I've seen to correct this in post processing, though the keystone correction in Adobe software is pretty good. However, when you have a really bad case of keystoning, you will lose a lot of your image area (in total pixels) and along with it some image quality.

I rarely use software correction, preferring to use my T/S lenses. However sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

I needed to use a 14mm for this, and had to tilt the camera upwards with the intent of cropping later for the composition I was after. I used DXO Viewpoint III to make the correction, since Lr was unable to fully correct. Even DXO was taxed to the max on this image, but I was happy with the result.


(Download)


(Download)

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Sep 24, 2017 19:36:17   #
wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska
 
Charles 46277 wrote:
One of the most important differences between the view cameras Ansel Adams used, and the smaller cameras such as 35mm (which he also occasionally used) is that a view camera can do what you say. By making the back(the film or sensor) perfectly perpendicular to the ground (parallel to the building), you get upright buildings. Then, by raising the front of the camera (the board with a lens on it), you can move to the upper part of the image (where the top of the building is, leaving out the unwanted ground area). Behold! Straight building, top to bottom. You can also get a similar effect regarding lines that are horizontal in the picture, by swinging the back one way or the other to make the two ends of a building (or whatever) look more (or less) equal in height, when one is farther away. If you shift the whole image to one side by moving the back that way, so the part of the glass in the picture with your reflection moves outside the frame, you vanish from the image.

The advent of 35mm in journalism and later in general commercial use meant we had to get used to tilting buildings--and often we exaggerate the effect on purpose. But yes, Photoshop has perspective correction you can use after shooting--I never tried it. The format of your camera (full frame or less) does not matter.

If you really want to correct perspective in the camera, as you say (I suspect the quality is better? Maybe not...), you can do that for much less money than a zillion-dollar tilt lens. Just buy an old view camera (many are cheaper than that lens), and attach your Canon to the back with an adapter made for that (from eBay--4x5 back adapter for Canon, around $100). The 4x5s called "field cameras" are smaller and much lighter than studio models, and the ones called press cameras (such as Graphic) are meant to be used either on tripod or hand-held. But that was when men were men, especially journalists--by today's standards, the press cameras are quite hefty. You see them in old movies. And press cameras do not have quite as much correction movement as a full-featured view camera. The adapter that fits your Canon to a view camera does not work with wide angle Canon lenses, though--it puts too much distance between sensor and lens. In that case, just use a wide angle large format lens on the view camera with 4x5 film, and give the Canon a rest. In any case the setup will use a large format lens--not the Canon lenses. Then when the film is developed, you can scan it and resume digital festivities.

The large format digital setup requires a view camera lens 125mm or above, because of the minimum distance from lens to sensor. The angle of view for any 125mm lens is exactly the same on your digital camera, if it really is 125mm and not "equivalent to 125mm". My avatar cpicture here beside my name, of the rex begonias, was shot with this setup, using a big studio lens on an 8x10 camera and a Canon digital 650D camera on back.
One of the most important differences between the ... (show quote)


If you use a recessed lensboard a wider angle lens will work. I have one for my 90 mm lens. By the way for those who are not up on different format cameras. A 90mm lens is a wide angle lens on a 4X5 view cameras, a normal lens on a 2 1/4 and a short telephoto on a 35mm camera. Dave

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Sep 24, 2017 19:44:52   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
dyximan wrote:
My question is when taking a cityscape with A crop sensor camera compared to a full frame, Will one leave the building relatively plum level and square and the other tilt or bow more to a counterpoint. My understanding is that the crop sensor like the Camera I use D5300 did tilt the buildings in. My next question is I have read that this can be taken care of in post processing. But was curious if there is anything that can be done within the camera itself and or lens, I read something about a tilt shift lens.
Thank you for your help and advice
My question is when taking a cityscape with A cro... (show quote)


You can do some correction in post using Lightroom but, as someone else has said, you would need to shoot very wide as you will lose the sides of the image when you correct it. And, as others have said, all 35mm cameras will tilt buildings, and trees, too. You could rent a Lens Baby lens and see if that works or any other tilt shift lens if you are shooting a lot of buildings and must have them straight; renting a lens would help you to determine if buying one is the right choice for you.

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Sep 25, 2017 03:05:46   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
We used to call it "Skew and Transform."

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Sep 25, 2017 05:51:59   #
Robert Bailey Loc: Canada
 
Here is a link to an article from B&H Photo on perspective control (or tilt and shift) lenses.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/perspective-control-and-tilt-shift-lenses

The last time I looked at prices they were not nearly as expensive as some others have claimed in this thread- about $2,000 or so for a "name brand", and perhaps $600 for a "3rd party" lens.

As someone else has mentioned, there are also adapters that go between the camera body and a lens. These adaptors are usually designed to use a "medium format" lens on a full-frame or APS-C body.

As others have also mentioned, the other options are to buy a large format view camera or else use software such as Adobe Photoshop.

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Sep 25, 2017 05:59:56   #
tracs101 Loc: Huntington NY
 
Try this to straighten the buildings in a photo. http://www.photographymad.com/pages/view/fixing-the-keystone-effect-using-photoshop

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Sep 25, 2017 06:29:08   #
Bill29707 Loc: Greenville, NC
 
Here is an example of the tilting and the correction I used in Lightroom. This is downtown Charlotte NC with the Bank of America corporate center in the middle.

As shot with Sony RX-10 M3
As shot with Sony RX-10 M3...
(Download)

Corrected in Lightroom
Corrected in Lightroom...
(Download)

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Sep 25, 2017 06:35:10   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
dyximan wrote:
My question is when taking a cityscape with A crop sensor camera compared to a full frame, Will one leave the building relatively plum level and square and the other tilt or bow more to a counterpoint. My understanding is that the crop sensor like the Camera I use D5300 did tilt the buildings in. My next question is I have read that this can be taken care of in post processing. But was curious if there is anything that can be done within the camera itself and or lens, I read something about a tilt shift lens.
Thank you for your help and advice
My question is when taking a cityscape with A cro... (show quote)


It's the angle of the camera, not the sensor, and post processing can fix it, more or less.

Reply
 
 
Sep 25, 2017 07:10:29   #
Gifted One Loc: S. E. Idaho
 
jerryc41 wrote:
It's the angle of the camera, not the sensor, and post processing can fix it, more or less.



Isn't the angle of the camera back and the sensor the same?

J. R.

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Sep 25, 2017 07:53:03   #
Nikonman44
 
Have to agree with what that supporter said.

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Sep 25, 2017 07:55:54   #
Nikonman44
 
great illustration of correcting to need. Biggest idea from all these suggestions is get as high as you can to get the perspective you desire.

Third of fourth floor of a close by building or even a roof top available space will do the best for you then perspective adjustments in the camera and or post shooting.

Keep it straight.

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Sep 25, 2017 07:56:51   #
Nikonman44
 
thats solid info and very simple. Plane of item and plane of sensor

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