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How important to the hobbyist is a full gamut monitor?
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Sep 24, 2017 09:38:45   #
appealnow Loc: Dallas, Texas
 
Ugh, this discussion about a week late. My 'puter died and I finally got a new monitor. Thought the Dell U-2415 was huge upgrade, I didn't know about this point, which would have been a factor since I am just starting to do Photoshop and learn it. Could y'all be a little more detailed on which brands and models of monitors fit the bill. Thanks.

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Sep 24, 2017 10:04:35   #
peteto Loc: Las Vegas
 
rmalarz wrote:
If I'm going to spend my time on anything, I want the best I can get to accomplish that anything.
--Bob


Absolutely

Pete

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Sep 24, 2017 10:51:44   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Since most printers use sRGB and web images only display in sRGB, how important for most of the photo hobby world is a monitor that can display AdobeRGB? When you finish processing raw files using 16bit mode they then must be converted to sRGB with the rendering intent set to adjust/compensate for the loss of the out of gamut colors. If those OOG colors are lost anyway, how important is it for them to be seen on the monitor. As an example my current monitor will give you 100% sRGB and ~80% of the Adobe gamut. I believe that the additional 20% is mostly in the brighter green and yellow spectrum. How much of that can the average person detect and if that 20% is going to be converted to the nearest color anyway, why should I covet a better monitor?
Since most printers use sRGB and web images only d... (show quote)


I would suggest that for those who are interested in accurate color, and those who love color, a wide gamut monitor is important. Heck it's fun to see those brilliant colors even if you have to smash them to translate an image into sRGB.

However for accurate color, color management, including regular calibration, is even more important than the type of monitor.

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Sep 24, 2017 11:17:27   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
Gene51 wrote:
Try not to combine color gamut and bit depth.

If you capture in raw, you are getting everything. After you have edited your raw file, you can convert it to ProPHoto gamut, and 16 bit depth - I use PSD since all the post processing software I use reads it. TIFF is just as good. When I am done processing the image, I check for out of gamut colors, then convert to sRGB or Adobe RGB depending on where the image will end up. For print I use AdobeRGB, and for web, social media etc I use sRGB. Rendering intent can also affect how a printer will deal with out of gamut colors. Again, if your image has no out of gamut colors, you are not likely to see a difference between relative colorimetric and perceptual rendering intent.

As far as any differences between the color spaces are concerned, it all has to do with the image you are processing. Most are nearly or completely within the gamut of both the display and the printer. You will not see any differences there. Most printers print a larger gamut than sRGB, and nearly all will print some colors that are not viewable on a display.

This article may shed some light:

https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167

On some images I can see a difference between my 8 ink Epson 4880 and my 12 ink HP Z3200, and others not so much. My prints usually look more vibrant than the display.

I think your mistakes are is making the assumption that if a device claims sRGB (or any other) color space coverage, it is the same as any other device claiming the same, and believing that you need to convert to sRGB to print. There will always be a bias and gamut mismatch (which is why when color is important you need to profile every component in the workflow, including the camera, display and output device (printer, projector, etc) and if using film the scanner, it should also be profiled.

Most photographers don't need that level of control over color. You can produce really great prints with only your display profiled, and using OEM inks and paper in your printer.

I use large gamut 14/16 bit files throughout my workflow, from capture to final, and I select the color space appropriate to the output device at the very end.
Try not to combine color gamut and bit depth. br ... (show quote)


Gene. Thank you for your input. From your post I now know that I didn’t know. I was working with the idea that all consumer printers only printed sRGB and that thought alone lead me to several wrong conclusions. I will keep on post processing using AdobeRGB and will no longer convert to sRGB unless I want to post an image on the web. Printing will be done straight from the finished file with no conversion.
FWIW my monitor is calibrated on a regular basis, I soft proof using profiles and only use Epson inks. Knowing how fallible I can be there is a need to eliminate any other possible glitches.
I deal with AMD so my color perception is slowing going south. I use my bride to double check colors when I'm in doubt so as much as possible I want to have her see in the print what I saw on the monitor, . (Women are supposed to have better color perception anyway.)
Thanks again
Rich

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Sep 24, 2017 11:22:21   #
dyximan
 
Gene51 wrote:
Try not to combine color gamut and bit depth.

If you capture in raw, you are getting everything. After you have edited your raw file, you can convert it to ProPHoto gamut, and 16 bit depth - I use PSD since all the post processing software I use reads it. TIFF is just as good. When I am done processing the image, I check for out of gamut colors, then convert to sRGB or Adobe RGB depending on where the image will end up. For print I use AdobeRGB, and for web, social media etc I use sRGB. Rendering intent can also affect how a printer will deal with out of gamut colors. Again, if your image has no out of gamut colors, you are not likely to see a difference between relative colorimetric and perceptual rendering intent.

As far as any differences between the color spaces are concerned, it all has to do with the image you are processing. Most are nearly or completely within the gamut of both the display and the printer. You will not see any differences there. Most printers print a larger gamut than sRGB, and nearly all will print some colors that are not viewable on a display.

This article may shed some light:

https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167

On some images I can see a difference between my 8 ink Epson 4880 and my 12 ink HP Z3200, and others not so much. My prints usually look more vibrant than the display.

I think your mistakes are is making the assumption that if a device claims sRGB (or any other) color space coverage, it is the same as any other device claiming the same, and believing that you need to convert to sRGB to print. There will always be a bias and gamut mismatch (which is why when color is important you need to profile every component in the workflow, including the camera, display and output device (printer, projector, etc) and if using film the scanner, it should also be profiled.

Most photographers don't need that level of control over color. You can produce really great prints with only your display profiled, and using OEM inks and paper in your printer.

I use large gamut 14/16 bit files throughout my workflow, from capture to final, and I select the color space appropriate to the output device at the very end.
Try not to combine color gamut and bit depth. br ... (show quote)

Don't we also need to calibrate our monitor to ensure that what we see on the monitor is what we see come out of the printer?

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Sep 24, 2017 12:25:25   #
JCam Loc: MD Eastern Shore
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Since most printers use sRGB and web images only display in sRGB, how important for most of the photo hobby world is a monitor that can display AdobeRGB? When you finish processing raw files using 16bit mode they then must be converted to sRGB with the rendering intent set to adjust/compensate for the loss of the out of gamut colors. If those OOG colors are lost anyway, how important is it for them to be seen on the monitor. As an example my current monitor will give you 100% sRGB and ~80% of the Adobe gamut. I believe that the additional 20% is mostly in the brighter green and yellow spectrum. How much of that can the average person detect and if that 20% is going to be converted to the nearest color anyway, why should I covet a better monitor?
Since most printers use sRGB and web images only d... (show quote)


I seriously doubt that the "hobbyists" here get really excited about the differences between sRGB and AdobeRGB abilities of their monitors since AdobeRGB is mainly required for magazine type publishing. To me the main reason for getting a 27" monitor, and color calibrating it, was the better view ability of my pictures on the monitor that is almost twice the size of my 15" laptop screen. It makes PP sooo much easier with the larger images, and since I'm not taking pictures for resale or submission to magazines, neither do I care about the esoteric differences that I can not even see !

If I sell a print or two at local shows, Great, if I don't that's just fine too; and I don't have to print and frame another copy for my home hanging.

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Sep 24, 2017 12:35:34   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
distill wrote:
If I cannot see it, it really does not matter if I can see hues that should be there then it matters

In a good quality image, yes, you may not be consciously able to see the hues. But the interesting thing is that between the eye and brain, the information that is there does get registered. Even though you may not be able to say why, you may very well like one printed version better than another because of the differences in printers as well as other factors.

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Sep 24, 2017 12:43:48   #
studio89
 
I use a full gamut monitor. Mine was $1500 so that is a drawback. The thing that is good is that when I calibrate my monitor and my Epson 7900 printer, I am able to print what I see on screen. I’m certain that when I go through the process with a client that they are impressed with what they see.

Case in point, is that having a good monitor is only as good as the profiling that should go with it. This is just my two cents for you to consider.

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Sep 24, 2017 16:17:19   #
planepics Loc: St. Louis burbs, but originally Chicago burbs
 
I just had my first metal print made. When looking at the FAQ section on the website they had an ICC profile. Is that just for printing or does the editing software use the info to get color matching? I'm wondering if it's worth downloading. Sometimes I shoot JPG and sometimes RAW. My only monitor (unless I slave to my TV) is my laptop.

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Sep 24, 2017 19:12:06   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
As a hobbyist photographer and professional graphic designer...I’d say if you can afford one, go for it, but don’t sweat it if you can’t.

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Sep 24, 2017 21:37:22   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Cdouthitt wrote:
As a hobbyist photographer and professional graphic designer...I’d say if you can afford one, go for it, but don’t sweat it if you can’t.


Best possible answer.

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Sep 25, 2017 05:54:47   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
planepics wrote:
I just had my first metal print made. When looking at the FAQ section on the website they had an ICC profile. Is that just for printing or does the editing software use the info to get color matching? I'm wondering if it's worth downloading. Sometimes I shoot JPG and sometimes RAW. My only monitor (unless I slave to my TV) is my laptop.


You use it to soft proof your image to see how the print will look taking into consideration the printer/ink/paper gamut. It helps to use the profile when the image has out of gamut colors and you can make adjustments and select the best rendering intent.

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Sep 25, 2017 15:00:25   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
If you don't print I don't see how it matters. You have no way of knowing what device will be used to view the images you post online. It's also unknown how people actually perceive colors. One person sees olive green and thinks it grey, etc. Colors also vary when seen under different lighting. Under florescent store lighting my wife's black coat looks dark green to me but she doesn't see it.

If you only post pics online, it's unlikely many will view posted pics with a top of the line calibrated monitor. I have an old Viewsonic VA2012wb led back lit lcd monitor that has never been calibrated as it has auto white balance. If I compare a pic of a small flag with the actual flag I see the same reds, whites and blues. That's good enough for me.

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Sep 26, 2017 23:05:54   #
jlsphoto Loc: Chcago SubBurbs
 
Printing from raw file in RGB space to an ink jet 8 ink printer will give you a wider range of color than from sRGB image. I convert to srgb when sending to labs for print and or the web.

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Sep 26, 2017 23:23:12   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
On UHH you get the following: (1) expert advice, (2) Strong conflicting opinions, (3) completely wrong answers. It's up to the reader to sort it all out.

Excerpts from some of the more "interesting" replies in this thread are included below:

"Probably not that important."

"If you don't print I don't see how it matters"

"The sRGB color space has much more colors than our eyes can see"

"I seriously doubt that the "hobbyists" here get really excited about the differences between sRGB and AdobeRGB"

"Don't we also need to calibrate our monitor to ensure that what we see on the monitor is what we see come out of the printer?"

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