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It's Always The 12 Inches Behind The Camera...., Except When It's Not!!!
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Sep 6, 2017 10:00:06   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I'm waiting for the shovel that digs its own hole.

One thing I like about life is the technology. Cars, cameras, computers, and power tools are all better than they were a few years ago, and they will continue to get better. When I was a kid, I drove a 1958 English Ford Prefect. It started, stopped, and got me from here to there. If I had maintained that car, it would still do those things today. I prefer to have a car with auto trans, electric windows, A/C, keyless entry, and no ignition points.

It's the same with cameras. When something new and appealing comes along, if the temptation is strong enough, I sell what I have and buy the new model. Then I go out and shoot even more. I admire people who can keep a camera for years and shoot half a million pictures with it, but that's not me.

"What does your current camera not do that a new model would do?" doesn't work on me.
I'm waiting for the shovel that digs its own hole.... (show quote)


That works fine if you have a lot of disposable income to fork over to the manufacturers, but the phrase in
quotes in your post has to work for the rest of us. >Alan

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Sep 6, 2017 10:58:45   #
jmvaugh Loc: Albuquerque
 
IMHO the 12 inches behind the camera and the camera need to work well together to capture the vision. For my hobbies, I buy a model somewhat above my present skill level so I'm inspired and motivated to grow into it. If money were no object and I didn't need to justify my upgrade to my at home financial manager 😁 I'd get pro gear, L lenses, top of the line tripods for every occasion, speed lights and strobes, and a wardrobe of backpacks and messenger bags for my gear. It would take months to years for my skill to catch up....but that would be my challenge. And of course the pros would snicker at me as yet another newbie that can barely use their top notch gear.
I've been very blessed with what I do have so I'll just be another novice gear head drooling over the latest and greatest for the next 3 - 5 years.

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Sep 6, 2017 11:06:37   #
BlueMorel Loc: Southwest Michigan
 
I'm still learning my camera AND technique. Not likely to be able to afford trading up any time soon, so the 12" behind the camera is improving, and my output is thus improving. I have no illusions to become any Ansel Adams, or to compete consistently against some of you so I'm competing against myself. When I get a good photo I give myself a high five.

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Sep 6, 2017 11:18:12   #
ORpilot Loc: Prineville, Or
 
boberic wrote:
If you are 12 inches behind the camera, how do you see through the viewfinder?


That is about the right distance for being under the black cloth on a view camera.

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Sep 6, 2017 11:49:08   #
Edia Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Technology makes better tools that are an improvement over previous generations but only incrementally. The bottom line is always the photographer and to a much lesser extent, the tools he uses. The subject and lighting affect the finished photo more that what camera and lens is being used. New gadgets are fun but do not always lead to better photos. A camera system is a bunch of compromises that attempts to make it work for various types of photography that involve weight, size and cost. I was just at the US Tennis Open and saw a Pro photographer with two Canon 1-DX cameras with EF-400 f2.8 lenses strapped to him. The gear must have cost over $15,000 and weighed over 30 lbs. For a Pro sports photography that kind of gear is necessary, but for most of us, this is overkill.

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Sep 6, 2017 11:56:23   #
Spirit Vision Photography Loc: Behind a Camera.
 
It's usually not the camera. The majority of you shooters long ago acquired the knowledge and skill to make fantastic images with the most basic of cameras. No need to chase technology. That's just my opinion and I do not condemn those that do. It's your choice to make.

SVP

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Sep 6, 2017 12:04:03   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
Or the casket that fills itself

jerryc41 wrote:
I'm waiting for the shovel that digs its own hole.

.

"e.

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Sep 6, 2017 12:28:39   #
dpcarriere
 
My 30 plus years of gemstone cutting has a parallel here. Gemcutters currently have access to a wide array of hardware with which to choose from. Some very expensive, well made machines for the professionals and some for the nickel and dime hobbyist that are very reasonably priced. New cutters expect miraculous results when put at the controls of the new, costly, high end machines and most of them are promptly disappointed with their results. On the other hand give one of the Masters a lower level, poorly constructed machine and he/she will produce a masterpiece. It's not the machine, it's the person behind the controls.

What the Master will tell you is that new, well made, expensive technology makes the job much easier and much quicker.

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Sep 6, 2017 13:07:03   #
BlueMorel Loc: Southwest Michigan
 
Like in cars, the most important part is the nut behind the wheel.

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Sep 6, 2017 14:46:40   #
cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast
 
SharpShooter wrote:
I think I hear that here on the Hog at least once per day, if not a lot more often, and in some posts, A LOT!!!
Technically, with ANY machine, that would be true. Even a lowly shovel cannot dig it's own hole!
And I'll be the first to agree that the true art produced by any camera is dependent on the skill of the operator.
But personally I have NEVER traded up to another camera until the shortcomings of my current equipment were not becoming blatantly apparent!
But plain and simple, different types of photography needs different types/levels of cameras.
Sure a new photographer is happy if their camera just takes a sharp image of a landscape.
But what about if you're shooting with a backlit subject using a dedicated spot focus point in the upper left hand corner with changing light and your exposure just won't be correct if the metering system is not linked to that focus point, and you're shooting fast and furious action??? Sorry folks, but a cell phone won't cut it in that situation no matter HOW good the monkey is!!
So do you really believe that the 12 inches behind the camera is all that's needed, the heck with the camera?
Landscape, sports, BIF's, is it all the same?
Are you the one that gives that advice? If so, I'd like to hear your opinion? And WHAT do YOU shoot and with WHAT that has led you to give that advice???
No blame here, just a friendly philosophical discussion! LoL
SS
I think I hear that here on the Hog at least once ... (show quote)


I agree, I recall waiting months to get my Nikon D800e to upgrade from my Nikon D300, even having to take a pre-booked Alaska Cruise without the D800e and "get along" with the D300.

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Sep 6, 2017 15:16:57   #
tomcat
 
I have one of those shovels that digs its own hole!!!


A small tiller that I just hold in place and it can dig a 10" hole perfect for planting pots

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Sep 6, 2017 15:29:21   #
terry44 Loc: Tuolumne County California, Maui Hawaii
 
I like the shovel example, I use that when I am out gold prospecting anyone can dig a hole with a cheap or quality shovel but if you don't know where to dig all you will have is a hole. It takes knowledge and practice to know where to place the shovel (or camera)
to get some gold or in photography's case a good or great composition. Studying and practice make it more likely you will hit a jackpot.
SharpShooter wrote:
I think I hear that here on the Hog at least once per day, if not a lot more often, and in some posts, A LOT!!!
Technically, with ANY machine, that would be true. Even a lowly shovel cannot dig it's own hole!
And I'll be the first to agree that the true art produced by any camera is dependent on the skill of the operator.
But personally I have NEVER traded up to another camera until the shortcomings of my current equipment were not becoming blatantly apparent!
But plain and simple, different types of photography needs different types/levels of cameras.
Sure a new photographer is happy if their camera just takes a sharp image of a landscape.
But what about if you're shooting with a backlit subject using a dedicated spot focus point in the upper left hand corner with changing light and your exposure just won't be correct if the metering system is not linked to that focus point, and you're shooting fast and furious action??? Sorry folks, but a cell phone won't cut it in that situation no matter HOW good the monkey is!!
So do you really believe that the 12 inches behind the camera is all that's needed, the heck with the camera?
Landscape, sports, BIF's, is it all the same?
Are you the one that gives that advice? If so, I'd like to hear your opinion? And WHAT do YOU shoot and with WHAT that has led you to give that advice???
No blame here, just a friendly philosophical discussion! LoL
SS
I think I hear that here on the Hog at least once ... (show quote)

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Sep 6, 2017 15:43:26   #
Chicflat Loc: Tulsa, Ok,
 
I bought a new T6i only because the one I lost mu previous one unfortunately; it was a t3i. I think I take better photographs with the new camera because I think it gives more technical caapability. However, the main reason I am doing better, I think, are the results of taking a photograhy course, studying the works and the advice of others, and some hard work at trying to improve my skills.

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Sep 6, 2017 16:52:45   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
Chicflat wrote:
I bought a new T6i only because the one I lost mu previous one unfortunately; it was a t3i. I think I take better photographs with the new camera because I think it gives more technical caapability. However, the main reason I am doing better, I think, are the results of taking a photograhy course, studying the works and the advice of others, and some hard work at trying to improve my skills.


Chic, I think everything you have said is true!
But as someone here so deftly pointed out, if your shot is not in focus, you could have a 200 pound brain 12 inches behind the camera and it might as well be a 200 pound pile of grey mush if your camera can't get the job done!!! LoL
Some can do just fine with a phone camera and then better with a newer, better phone camera. In fact that how probably 90% of people taking pics today view photography.
But for a few, the most sophisticated $7000 focus system 12 inches in front of them can barely get the job done, it's still hit and miss and that's with gobs of knowledge behind the camera.
Sure, when those same photographers go do landscape, they don't use that same camera, because it requires a completely different tool and set of skills to get THAT job done well!
SS

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Sep 6, 2017 18:45:43   #
flashbang
 
I guess I have had one version or another of this conversation with many other photographers over the years. For the first 4 decades of my professional career, I worked with film and totally manual cameras, mostly Leica RF's, Nikon F2 SLRs. And whatever lights were best at the time. I won't bother with the war stories of learning the craft, but when I finally had to switch to digital shooting, (and I mean I had to!) I carried along of that discipline and technical skill

Today, I shoot most of the time with my digital cameras (Olympus Mirrorless Micro 4/3) and lights in manual mode. I have most of the controls on the camera disabled. I need to set ISO, f/stops and shutter speed; I simply can't be bothered – or need to adjust - all those other settings when I am working.

Whether shooting film or digital, optics and lights are still pretty much the same and I am pretty sure of what I am going to capture before I hit the trigger: the last thing I want on a job is a surprise! When I am in a fast breaking situation – especially when I need to shoot quickly in changing conditions - I will use auto, ETTL or whatever setting works best, but I almost always have to tweak things one way or another.

When I am out snap shooting on my own, I work pretty much the same way. My favorite travel cameras are a couple of aging Fuji X-10's and yes, I will fool with lighting effects and such for my own work, but again, it is minimal. And I usually manage to pay for my vacations with the photos done with these cameras.

So, my .02.

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