Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Check out Landscape Photography section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
I want to buy my first DSLR, but am open to mirrorless.
Page <<first <prev 7 of 12 next> last>>
Sep 2, 2017 13:01:27   #
cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast
 
burkphoto wrote:
Medium format gear is very heavy, and very, very expensive, but you get maximum image quality and image size. Unless you are wealthy, a working pro, or full time artist, you don't need it. Normal lens is 75 to 80mm.

Full frame format gear is heavy and very expensive, but you get extremely good image quality and image size. Normal lens is 50mm.

APS-C format gear is marginally lighter than full frame gear, if you use APS-C lenses. It yields very good image quality and size. Relative to full frame gear, there's generally a one f/stop low light performance penalty, a one stop extension of depth of field for a given field of view, and a 1.6 crop factor (Canon) or 1.5 crop factor (everyone else). So a normal lens is 35mm.

Micro Four Thirds (Micro 4/3, M43, mu43, etc.) gear is about one fourth the size and weight of an "equivalent field of view" full frame system. It's about 1/3 the weight of an "equivalent field of view" APS-C dSLR system. It yields very good image quality and size. Relative to full frame gear, there's generally a two f/stop low light performance penalty, a two stop extension of depth of field for a given field of view, and a 2.0 crop factor for still images. So a normal lens is 25mm.

It is very hard to purchase a BAD camera these days. All the major brands are quite capable, and the gear is reliable. Nearly all cameras have the same core features, and then a superset of unique features that give each model its particular appeal.

The advantages of dSLR seem to be:

Ubiquitousness — They are the most popular advanced cameras.
Lens selection — An abundance of native and third-party lenses is available.
Best autofocus speed — Some more expensive models are most appropriate for sports and fast-moving wildlife.
No viewfinder latency — You see action in real time.
Best range of models available — see ubiquitousness.

The disadvantages of a dSLR include:

Viewfinder black-out at time of exposure — The reflex viewing system mirror has to move out of the way of light reaching the sensor.
Size, bulk, and weight — Lenses can be heavy, bodies are thick and heavier than mirrorless.
Noise — Shutters and mirrors can be quite loud.
Live view mode requires use of LCD/LED screen on back of camera. This can disturb patrons in a theater.

The advantages of mirrorless cameras include:

Mirrorless cameras are available in full frame, APS-C, and Micro Four Thirds formats.
There is no mirror chamber — you at least have smaller, lighter, more compact camera bodies.
No viewfinder blackout — There is no mirror to have to move out of the way at moment of exposure.
Most dSLR lenses and cinematography lenses can be adapted to mirrorless cameras (with some automation limitations).
Fewer moving parts can mean enhanced reliability.
Lenses can be engineered with better correction of chromatic aberrations, coma, astigmatism, etc.
Micro Four Thirds lenses are MUCH smaller, lighter, and compact than full frame and APS-C lenses.
Many mirrorless cameras have electronic shutter modes that are completely silent. This is great for working in theaters, concert halls, around wildlife...
Electronic viewfinders allow use of the electronic shutter in a dark theater without disturbing patrons.
Electronic viewfinders provide a view of your image the way the camera will process it for a JPEG. You can adjust menu settings and see the effects.
Set the camera to save B&W JPEGs, and also save raw color images for later choice. The viewfinder displays the image in B&W, for easier pre-visualization.
There is never a need to adjust fine focus of each lens to each camera body, as there can be with dSLRs.

The disadvantages of mirrorless cameras include:

Responsiveness — There is still a slight latency (delay) of the electronic viewfinder image. However, each generation of mirrorless diminishes it.
Some folks don't like the electronic viewfinder. But if you haven't tried one in three years, you're in for a treat!
Availability of parts and service — It's still a bit spotty, although Panasonic and others are starting to build professional services organizations and are beefing up their repair teams.

Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony make the very best mirrorless cameras. Canon and Nikon make the most popular dSLRs. Pentax is still in the mix.

All the manufacturers have at least a decent selection of lenses. Where selection is relatively limited, the available choices tend to be professional quality glass.

Micro Four Thirds is a camera/lens mount system shared by Olympus and Panasonic. There are many lenses available for M43 — http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html

Most mirrorless camera manufacturers have entry-level, "social and travel" cameras, enthusiast-level, and professional-level cameras. Most also have two predominant body styles — rangefinder-like and dSLR-style. Most do not have optical viewfinders. A few only have a rear LCD screen, and no EVF.

You really need to TRY any camera you think you might want to buy, so borrow, rent, or otherwise get your hands on one for a few days. Pay attention to:

Ergonomics — The size, weight, heft, balance, feel, button and dial placement, etc. in YOUR hands, not mine, Joe's, or Sally's.
Menu organization — Some brands have MUCH easier menu structures to navigate. Again, this is a personal preference thing.
Programmability — Some brands have dials and buttons that you can reassign to meet your needs and preferences.

There is no one "best" camera. There is only the one that meets your juncture of budget, weight, bulk, speed, feel, thinking style, photography style, subject choice...

You may want to buy USED or REFURBISHED gear to start. Adorama, B&H, Cameta Camera, and KEH are all good sources of used cameras, lenses, and other photo gear. KEH sells only used gear. Most manufacturers sell refurbished gear through their web sites as well as dealers.

If you are just learning the principles of photography, consider buying a good lens and a cheap, used body. Once you've recorded your "10,000 images," you should know what sort of camera system you really want.
Medium format gear is very heavy, and very, very e... (show quote)


You have written one of the best pros and cons description of all the major camera categories that I have ever seen! Wow!

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 13:04:36   #
psyxprtaol.com
 
Great post

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 13:05:25   #
sergiohm
 
First make sure you really need a DSLR, they are bigger and heavier than mirrorless and bridge cameras.
Personally I don't think there is any need to go full frame, I can recommend the D7200 from Nikon, great camera.
However I've been using the Sony DSC-RX10 III, a fantastic bridge camera with a 28-600 mm reach. You can't change lenses but there's no need to.
I also love my petite Nikon 1 (mirrorless, very light and even shoots in RAW mode).
I've also had the Sony A6000 and it is very nice.
These are all cameras that I have had for sometime and I can say they are very good specially if they are your first camera for serious photography.

Reply
Check out Film Photography section of our forum.
Sep 2, 2017 13:08:03   #
Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin
 
Mac wrote:
What I don't care for with mirrorless cameras is the Electronic View Finder and Shutter Lag.


Have you tried a modern mirrorless? Both the things you mention are a very old problem
Try a new Sony or Fuji you will be amazed.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 13:45:30   #
Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin
 
MiraMeadows wrote:
Hi all, I am wanting to buy my first serious camera (had a Brownie Super 27 when I was 7 and took pictures of everything on the planet. Also had a point and shoot enjoyed it too. Now its my cell phone.). I am retired and want to become passionate about photography again. Not sure in which direction to go. I have the intelligence and enthusiasm to learn the working of any camera (also know I need to take a course and do some reading). My plan is to buy the body separately and maybe 2 to 3 lenses separately. I would love to go with a full frame camera, respectable MP, decent viewing screen and one that is enjoyable to learn to use. I will be traveling a lot in the future so landscapes, nature, candid shots of street scenes are my interests. I also love shooting macro or blown up shots of tiny things. I'm 66 and have some arthritis in my hands. First question, would a light weight DSLR be better or can I get decent fast lenses with mirrorless? If DSLR is the way to go, Canon or Nikon? I know enough to know once you commit to one or the other, your married. I dont want to buy cheap now and upgrade over and over again. I'm not 20 so I dont have luxury of many years for that. I want to buy a great camera and gradually add some great lenses, filters, etc. Help, any recommendations?..🤠
Hi all, I am wanting to buy my first serious camer... (show quote)

Don't be fooled by the weight of mirrorless I have a couple of fuji's and although the body's are light the lenses are as heavy or maybe heavier than DSLR lenses. But at the end of the day don't be influenced by us all on here we are all biased by the equipment we use. Look at reviews on the internet. Then go into your local camera store and try out as many as you can. The feel of a camera will be a big decider. Best of luck and happy shooting

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 13:48:55   #
MiraMeadows Loc: Summerville, SC
 
Thanks dandi, want to out my hands on a Fuji XT2 and a couple of great lenses and see how they feel.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 13:59:45   #
Michael Obringer Loc: Indiana +13 more
 
The new Leica TL2 has specs that match everyones. It's Leica's entry level mirrorless (small size and weight) yet matches Leica's more expensive cameras for image quality. One lens—the 23mm Summicron f/2 (35mm equivalent). is all I use. It'll give you a 36 mp equivalent, because of its 1.5 crop, and its outstanding quality is such that so when you go pro you won't have to upgrade. $3500 with lens. Good luck and have fun no matter what you choose.

Fellow hoggers: don't hate on the T series. I'm not listening. I have a Leica T and it's far and away the best Leica I've owned. It's 1/3 the price of the M or SL, and 1/10 of the S which is their full frame 36mp camera.

Reply
 
 
Sep 2, 2017 14:03:36   #
MiraMeadows Loc: Summerville, SC
 
Thanks Phil, got it, Sony A6500 body with zoom lens 18-105mm f4.0 OSS G, Zeiss E 24mm F1.8 prime lens and FE 90mm f2.8 OSS G prime lens..add some filters, a tripod and other stuff and this could be what I end up going with.. Great suggestion. Going to a camera shop next week to put my hands on some cameras.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 14:07:56   #
MiraMeadows Loc: Summerville, SC
 
Hey Architect 1776, I am not in any hurry to buy right now so I may wait to buy and see what is on the mirrorless horizon...thanks

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 14:09:05   #
OKPhotog Loc: Oklahoma
 
MiraMeadows wrote:
I've read that there is a lag in shutter speed with mirrorless. This could really cause missed shots with animals who dont like posing...lol


Shooting with a Fuji XT-2 and using proper settings for action (continuous focus, high speed continuous drive, zone focus, and proper tracking for the subject), I do not experience a lag in shutter speed. If there is a slight lag, it is not detectable to me. A number of years ago I had an electronic viewfinder camera that did lag and it was an issue, but I have not experienced that with the Fuji XT-2 which is supposed to have a much improved autofocus system over earlier X series cameras. The Fuji XT-2 is my first Fugi so I can't confirm that statement, but I find focusing VERY quick and accurate. The electronic viewfinder does pixelate some when shooting high speed continuous, but I have had a very high success rate on focus. Additionally, for action I am often using the XF 55-200mm lens that regularly gets panned for not focusing quickly. I have not found that to be the case AT ALL if I'm using the proper settings. Fuji lenses are excellent and I say that as a long time user of excellent Canon L lenses.

Whatever choice you make, enjoy!!

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 14:13:30   #
MiraMeadows Loc: Summerville, SC
 
Hey Mark jay, was going to look at the Fuji XT2 body as a serious contender.. Thanks

Reply
Check out Sports Photography section of our forum.
Sep 2, 2017 14:15:37   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
I don't want to be redundant but not much has been said about the different color renditions of each of these cameras and systems.... I have Canon, Olympus and Sony; each one captures a diff. looking image as far as color rendition is concerned. Sure you can do a lot in PP but each will give you a different native look straight out of the camera. Sony and Olympus will tend to be more contrasty and sharper while Canon is more romantic ( warmer look ). Put your hands on your top choices and look at the output and the differences in their respective the color renditions... specs don't mean much when you don't like how the image looks... Good Luck, Bob

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 14:17:57   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
After looking at so many available options - if I were starting over (again), the APS-C mirrorless is the winner for me. Sony is and will be the leader for years to come.
I feel the APS-C MILC is the best combination of features, quality, speed, ergonomics, value, for any intended purpose. If you like interchangeable lenses - maybe the a6300 or a6500 is for you.
Another option for a light weight unit - I would budget lightly and start with something like a Panasonic FZ1000 Hybrid. Light, fixed lens, plenty of zoom (25-400), Panny's are arguably the best video camera out there today. Like so many 1" sensor cameras, if you like to shoot in low light, this may not be for you.
If DSLR features are calling you, Would stick with either Nikon or Canon. Their support is terrific.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 14:26:06   #
Hip Coyote
 
First, define what it is you are going to be doing with the camera...you said travel...but where and how? I hike and got tired of carrying a full dslr on very long hikes over altitude..so I switched to m4/3. Headed to Machu Picchu and cannot carry 20 lbs of stuff at 15000 foot elevation hike. But, if you are going to have a car or tour bus nearby that carries the weight for you, then I'd go for a general purpose dslr...probably from Canon in that there is so many accessories out there, it is the predominant brand across the world (I saw 10 canon for every Nikon on a trip recently...a few Sonys and only one Olympus (not including mine.) All cameras take great photos...it is the Indian not the arrow that makes the shot.

I have an old Canon 60D that is still a remarkable camera...get an 80D and you wont be sorry.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 14:27:10   #
MiraMeadows Loc: Summerville, SC
 
Thanks Catmarley, I've been reading (several times) all the responses and you may be the first gal to answer..lens glass quality, weight and variety will reign supreme in my decision. I have read that you can't go wrong with Fuji lenses or Sony Carl Zeiss lenses...so mirrorless may be the wizest choice.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 7 of 12 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Check out Video for DSLR and Point and Shoot Cameras section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.