Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
I want to buy my first DSLR, but am open to mirrorless.
Page <<first <prev 5 of 12 next> last>>
Sep 2, 2017 08:30:12   #
genocolo Loc: Vail and Gasparilla Island
 
GregWCIL wrote:
You have a big decision to make and once you go a certain route you will be invested and it wouldn't be cheap to change equipment lineups. So......either find some friends or maybe a camera club where you can actually try a camera out. Only you can tell what "feels" good. You can rent them reasonably. Check with a local camera store. But try to get it out into real-world situations.

About any interchangeable lens camera can give good results. I personally like full frame Nikons but I have a friend (he's a retired wedding photographer) who produces really great results with his little Olympus 4/3 cameras. I bought my wife a little Sony A6000. It has stunning capabilities but I personally don't like the electronic viewfinder. Much of your decision will be based on your intended use: Mirrorless is a little smaller (but lenses aren't necessarily smaller) so handier for casual and landscape photos, a dslr's optical viewfinder is tough to beat if you are shooting fast moving things like wildlife.

Stunning photos!

I'm six3 and 240 yet packing around a full frame camera and several lenses does get tiring at times. And we are all getting older.
Good luck with your decision. I too got back into photography as a perfect matchup to our desire to travel more as we near retirement. My passion has led us to some beautiful places. I hope you have equal success.
You have a big decision to make and once you go a... (show quote)

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 08:31:16   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
MiraMeadows wrote:
Andy, going to research mirrorless..haven't really looked into them and they are lighter weight.


Give serious consideration to the Fuji X-T2 unless you *must* have full frame. Many Nikon shooters are transitioning to Fuji.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_895hPva0ZY

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 08:32:34   #
psyxprtaol.com
 
Thanks Bill. Another helpful post.

Reply
 
 
Sep 2, 2017 08:40:55   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
Mark7829 wrote:
There is no weight savings with mirrorless. What weight they removed from the camera body was added back to the lens. Mirrorless lenses, weigh more than their counter parts. I am 66. I have a full frame set up and large primes, 500 and 400-200. They are heavy but not so much that I can't handle it.

*

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 09:33:35   #
lamontcranston
 
burkphoto wrote:
Medium format gear is very heavy, and very, very expensive, but you get maximum image quality and image size. Unless you are wealthy, a working pro, or full time artist, you don't need it. Normal lens is 75 to 80mm.

Full frame format gear is heavy and very expensive, but you get extremely good image quality and image size. Normal lens is 50mm.

APS-C format gear is marginally lighter than full frame gear, if you use APS-C lenses. It yields very good image quality and size. Relative to full frame gear, there's generally a one f/stop low light performance penalty, a one stop extension of depth of field for a given field of view, and a 1.6 crop factor (Canon) or 1.5 crop factor (everyone else). So a normal lens is 35mm.

Micro Four Thirds (Micro 4/3, M43, mu43, etc.) gear is about one fourth the size and weight of an "equivalent field of view" full frame system. It's about 1/3 the weight of an "equivalent field of view" APS-C dSLR system. It yields very good image quality and size. Relative to full frame gear, there's generally a two f/stop low light performance penalty, a two stop extension of depth of field for a given field of view, and a 2.0 crop factor for still images. So a normal lens is 25mm.

It is very hard to purchase a BAD camera these days. All the major brands are quite capable, and the gear is reliable. Nearly all cameras have the same core features, and then a superset of unique features that give each model its particular appeal.

The advantages of dSLR seem to be:

Ubiquitousness — They are the most popular advanced cameras.
Lens selection — An abundance of native and third-party lenses is available.
Best autofocus speed — Some more expensive models are most appropriate for sports and fast-moving wildlife.
No viewfinder latency — You see action in real time.
Best range of models available — see ubiquitousness.

The disadvantages of a dSLR include:

Viewfinder black-out at time of exposure — The reflex viewing system mirror has to move out of the way of light reaching the sensor.
Size, bulk, and weight — Lenses can be heavy, bodies are thick and heavier than mirrorless.
Noise — Shutters and mirrors can be quite loud.
Live view mode requires use of LCD/LED screen on back of camera. This can disturb patrons in a theater.

The advantages of mirrorless cameras include:

Mirrorless cameras are available in full frame, APS-C, and Micro Four Thirds formats.
There is no mirror chamber — you at least have smaller, lighter, more compact camera bodies.
No viewfinder blackout — There is no mirror to have to move out of the way at moment of exposure.
Most dSLR lenses and cinematography lenses can be adapted to mirrorless cameras (with some automation limitations).
Fewer moving parts can mean enhanced reliability.
Lenses can be engineered with better correction of chromatic aberrations, coma, astigmatism, etc.
Micro Four Thirds lenses are MUCH smaller, lighter, and compact than full frame and APS-C lenses.
Many mirrorless cameras have electronic shutter modes that are completely silent. This is great for working in theaters, concert halls, around wildlife...
Electronic viewfinders allow use of the electronic shutter in a dark theater without disturbing patrons.
Electronic viewfinders provide a view of your image the way the camera will process it for a JPEG. You can adjust menu settings and see the effects.
Set the camera to save B&W JPEGs, and also save raw color images for later choice. The viewfinder displays the image in B&W, for easier pre-visualization.
There is never a need to adjust fine focus of each lens to each camera body, as there can be with dSLRs.

The disadvantages of mirrorless cameras include:

Responsiveness — There is still a slight latency (delay) of the electronic viewfinder image. However, each generation of mirrorless diminishes it.
Some folks don't like the electronic viewfinder. But if you haven't tried one in three years, you're in for a treat!
Availability of parts and service — It's still a bit spotty, although Panasonic and others are starting to build professional services organizations and are beefing up their repair teams.

Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony make the very best mirrorless cameras. Canon and Nikon make the most popular dSLRs. Pentax is still in the mix.

All the manufacturers have at least a decent selection of lenses. Where selection is relatively limited, the available choices tend to be professional quality glass.

Micro Four Thirds is a camera/lens mount system shared by Olympus and Panasonic. There are many lenses available for M43 — http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html

Most mirrorless camera manufacturers have entry-level, "social and travel" cameras, enthusiast-level, and professional-level cameras. Most also have two predominant body styles — rangefinder-like and dSLR-style. Most do not have optical viewfinders. A few only have a rear LCD screen, and no EVF.

You really need to TRY any camera you think you might want to buy, so borrow, rent, or otherwise get your hands on one for a few days. Pay attention to:

Ergonomics — The size, weight, heft, balance, feel, button and dial placement, etc. in YOUR hands, not mine, Joe's, or Sally's.
Menu organization — Some brands have MUCH easier menu structures to navigate. Again, this is a personal preference thing.
Programmability — Some brands have dials and buttons that you can reassign to meet your needs and preferences.

There is no one "best" camera. There is only the one that meets your juncture of budget, weight, bulk, speed, feel, thinking style, photography style, subject choice...

You may want to buy USED or REFURBISHED gear to start. Adorama, B&H, Cameta Camera, and KEH are all good sources of used cameras, lenses, and other photo gear. KEH sells only used gear. Most manufacturers sell refurbished gear through their web sites as well as dealers.

If you are just learning the principles of photography, consider buying a good lens and a cheap, used body. Once you've recorded your "10,000 images," you should know what sort of camera system you really want.
Medium format gear is very heavy, and very, very e... (show quote)


Bill,
What an EXCELLENT post. I've read the entire thread and it's all great advice for anyone choosing a new camera system, but your post goes to the heart of the matter and gets the Blue Ribbon. I would show that post to anyone who might be considering buying a new camera. Thanks for taking the time to offer some very helpful information.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 09:46:37   #
TomV Loc: Annapolis, Maryland
 
markjay wrote:



Go mirrorless.
Unless you want to struggle learning the Sony system - don't go near it. The menus are unintelligible.

I personally have a Canon M5. I love it. It's fantastic. .


Unintelligible menus? Really? I have been shooting with Sony for well over a decade. I can get a bit confused when trying my son-in-law's Nikon. The OP has no such history. She will have a learning curve regardless.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 09:49:59   #
joseph premanandan
 
i just you try FujiX-T1 mirrorless camera.i am quite pleased with its performanc

Reply
 
 
Sep 2, 2017 09:53:50   #
Toment Loc: FL, IL
 
burkphoto wrote:
Medium format gear is very heavy, and very, very expensive, but you get maximum image quality and image size. Unless you are wealthy, a working pro, or full time artist, you don't need it. Normal lens is 75 to 80mm.

Full frame format gear is heavy and very expensive, but you get extremely good image quality and image size. Normal lens is 50mm.

APS-C format gear is marginally lighter than full frame gear, if you use APS-C lenses. It yields very good image quality and size. Relative to full frame gear, there's generally a one f/stop low light performance penalty, a one stop extension of depth of field for a given field of view, and a 1.6 crop factor (Canon) or 1.5 crop factor (everyone else). So a normal lens is 35mm.

Micro Four Thirds (Micro 4/3, M43, mu43, etc.) gear is about one fourth the size and weight of an "equivalent field of view" full frame system. It's about 1/3 the weight of an "equivalent field of view" APS-C dSLR system. It yields very good image quality and size. Relative to full frame gear, there's generally a two f/stop low light performance penalty, a two stop extension of depth of field for a given field of view, and a 2.0 crop factor for still images. So a normal lens is 25mm.

It is very hard to purchase a BAD camera these days. All the major brands are quite capable, and the gear is reliable. Nearly all cameras have the same core features, and then a superset of unique features that give each model its particular appeal.

The advantages of dSLR seem to be:

Ubiquitousness — They are the most popular advanced cameras.
Lens selection — An abundance of native and third-party lenses is available.
Best autofocus speed — Some more expensive models are most appropriate for sports and fast-moving wildlife.
No viewfinder latency — You see action in real time.
Best range of models available — see ubiquitousness.

The disadvantages of a dSLR include:

Viewfinder black-out at time of exposure — The reflex viewing system mirror has to move out of the way of light reaching the sensor.
Size, bulk, and weight — Lenses can be heavy, bodies are thick and heavier than mirrorless.
Noise — Shutters and mirrors can be quite loud.
Live view mode requires use of LCD/LED screen on back of camera. This can disturb patrons in a theater.

The advantages of mirrorless cameras include:

Mirrorless cameras are available in full frame, APS-C, and Micro Four Thirds formats.
There is no mirror chamber — you at least have smaller, lighter, more compact camera bodies.
No viewfinder blackout — There is no mirror to have to move out of the way at moment of exposure.
Most dSLR lenses and cinematography lenses can be adapted to mirrorless cameras (with some automation limitations).
Fewer moving parts can mean enhanced reliability.
Lenses can be engineered with better correction of chromatic aberrations, coma, astigmatism, etc.
Micro Four Thirds lenses are MUCH smaller, lighter, and compact than full frame and APS-C lenses.
Many mirrorless cameras have electronic shutter modes that are completely silent. This is great for working in theaters, concert halls, around wildlife...
Electronic viewfinders allow use of the electronic shutter in a dark theater without disturbing patrons.
Electronic viewfinders provide a view of your image the way the camera will process it for a JPEG. You can adjust menu settings and see the effects.
Set the camera to save B&W JPEGs, and also save raw color images for later choice. The viewfinder displays the image in B&W, for easier pre-visualization.
There is never a need to adjust fine focus of each lens to each camera body, as there can be with dSLRs.

The disadvantages of mirrorless cameras include:

Responsiveness — There is still a slight latency (delay) of the electronic viewfinder image. However, each generation of mirrorless diminishes it.
Some folks don't like the electronic viewfinder. But if you haven't tried one in three years, you're in for a treat!
Availability of parts and service — It's still a bit spotty, although Panasonic and others are starting to build professional services organizations and are beefing up their repair teams.

Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony make the very best mirrorless cameras. Canon and Nikon make the most popular dSLRs. Pentax is still in the mix.

All the manufacturers have at least a decent selection of lenses. Where selection is relatively limited, the available choices tend to be professional quality glass.

Micro Four Thirds is a camera/lens mount system shared by Olympus and Panasonic. There are many lenses available for M43 — http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html

Most mirrorless camera manufacturers have entry-level, "social and travel" cameras, enthusiast-level, and professional-level cameras. Most also have two predominant body styles — rangefinder-like and dSLR-style. Most do not have optical viewfinders. A few only have a rear LCD screen, and no EVF.

You really need to TRY any camera you think you might want to buy, so borrow, rent, or otherwise get your hands on one for a few days. Pay attention to:

Ergonomics — The size, weight, heft, balance, feel, button and dial placement, etc. in YOUR hands, not mine, Joe's, or Sally's.
Menu organization — Some brands have MUCH easier menu structures to navigate. Again, this is a personal preference thing.
Programmability — Some brands have dials and buttons that you can reassign to meet your needs and preferences.

There is no one "best" camera. There is only the one that meets your juncture of budget, weight, bulk, speed, feel, thinking style, photography style, subject choice...

You may want to buy USED or REFURBISHED gear to start. Adorama, B&H, Cameta Camera, and KEH are all good sources of used cameras, lenses, and other photo gear. KEH sells only used gear. Most manufacturers sell refurbished gear through their web sites as well as dealers.

If you are just learning the principles of photography, consider buying a good lens and a cheap, used body. Once you've recorded your "10,000 images," you should know what sort of camera system you really want.
Medium format gear is very heavy, and very, very e... (show quote)


Excellent!

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 10:05:55   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
MiraMeadows wrote:
Hi all, I am wanting to buy my first serious camera (had a Brownie Super 27 when I was 7 and took pictures of everything on the planet. Also had a point and shoot enjoyed it too. Now its my cell phone.). I am retired and want to become passionate about photography again. Not sure in which direction to go. I have the intelligence and enthusiasm to learn the working of any camera (also know I need to take a course and do some reading). My plan is to buy the body separately and maybe 2 to 3 lenses separately. I would love to go with a full frame camera, respectable MP, decent viewing screen and one that is enjoyable to learn to use. I will be traveling a lot in the future so landscapes, nature, candid shots of street scenes are my interests. I also love shooting macro or blown up shots of tiny things. I'm 66 and have some arthritis in my hands. First question, would a light weight DSLR be better or can I get decent fast lenses with mirrorless? If DSLR is the way to go, Canon or Nikon? I know enough to know once you commit to one or the other, your married. I dont want to buy cheap now and upgrade over and over again. I'm not 20 so I dont have luxury of many years for that. I want to buy a great camera and gradually add some great lenses, filters, etc. Help, any recommendations?..🤠
Hi all, I am wanting to buy my first serious camer... (show quote)


If you want a camera you will really enjoy, look at the Fuji line - XT-20 or XT-2. I am an older woman, and have had many Nikons since the 70's, but arthritis has caught up to me and I discovered the Fuji, Much easier to hold and manipulate, lighter weight, and has been designed to make the best compromises for the enthusiast photographer. The lenses are small and super quality, and all the controls are external - you don't have to hunt through menus once you have set up the camera to suit your preferences. My poor Nikons are sitting in a drawer. I have not yet gotten around to selling them!

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 10:07:22   #
jccash Loc: Longwood, Florida
 
Mark7829 wrote:
There is no weight savings with mirrorless. What weight they removed from the camera body was added back to the lens. Mirrorless lenses, weigh more than their counter parts. I am 66. I have a full frame set up and large primes, 500 and 400-200. They are heavy but not so much that I can't handle it.


I agree and disagree. If you add a heavy lens you are 100% correct. No weight savings... But with the Sony a6000/6300/6500 and kit lens huge weight savings. My guess is it is the same with other mirrorless cameras...

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 10:18:26   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
Mark7829 wrote:
There is no weight savings with mirrorless. What weight they removed from the camera body was added back to the lens. Mirrorless lenses, weigh more than their counter parts. I am 66. I have a full frame set up and large primes, 500 and 400-200. They are heavy but not so much that I can't handle it.


You obviously have not handled a Fuji X. The lenses are smaller and lighter than their Nikon counterparts. I have both. That is not to say that the Fuji equipment is lightweight. Where Nikon uses a lot of plastic, Fuji sticks to solid metal and glass - top quality materials and construction, and superb IQ.

Reply
 
 
Sep 2, 2017 10:25:39   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
CatMarley wrote:
You obviously have not handled a Fuji X. The lenses are smaller and lighter than their Nikon counterparts. I have both. That is not to say that the Fuji equipment is lightweight. Where Nikon uses a lot of plastic, Fuji sticks to solid metal and glass - top quality materials and construction, and superb IQ.


Fuji's versatile and excellent 18-135 zoom lens is on my camera all the time and it is a hell of a lot lighter and smaller than Nikon's 24-120 which was on my D800 all the time.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 10:31:09   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
CatMarley wrote:
You obviously have not handled a Fuji X. The lenses are smaller and lighter than their Nikon counterparts. I have both. That is not to say that the Fuji equipment is lightweight. Where Nikon uses a lot of plastic, Fuji sticks to solid metal and glass - top quality materials and construction, and superb IQ.

Agree. I was going to do a lens-by-lens comparison, but I don't have the time right now. Check out the 16mm Fuji and compare weights with the Nikkor 16 2.8 You have to compare apples to apples..... the weight argument is weak, at best. A lot of the negatives posted about mirrorless no longer apply.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 10:36:55   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
CatMarley wrote:
You obviously have not handled a Fuji X. The lenses are smaller and lighter than their Nikon counterparts. I have both. That is not to say that the Fuji equipment is lightweight. Where Nikon uses a lot of plastic, Fuji sticks to solid metal and glass - top quality materials and construction, and superb IQ.



Fuji has always made excellent products especially lenses.

Reply
Sep 2, 2017 10:51:35   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
MiraMeadows wrote:
Hi all, I am wanting to buy my first serious camera (had a Brownie Super 27 when I was 7 and took pictures of everything on the planet. Also had a point and shoot enjoyed it too. Now its my cell phone.). I am retired and want to become passionate about photography again. Not sure in which direction to go. I have the intelligence and enthusiasm to learn the working of any camera (also know I need to take a course and do some reading). My plan is to buy the body separately and maybe 2 to 3 lenses separately. I would love to go with a full frame camera, respectable MP, decent viewing screen and one that is enjoyable to learn to use. I will be traveling a lot in the future so landscapes, nature, candid shots of street scenes are my interests. I also love shooting macro or blown up shots of tiny things. I'm 66 and have some arthritis in my hands. First question, would a light weight DSLR be better or can I get decent fast lenses with mirrorless? If DSLR is the way to go, Canon or Nikon? I know enough to know once you commit to one or the other, your married. I dont want to buy cheap now and upgrade over and over again. I'm not 20 so I dont have luxury of many years for that. I want to buy a great camera and gradually add some great lenses, filters, etc. Help, any recommendations?..🤠
Hi all, I am wanting to buy my first serious camer... (show quote)


Go to a store and see them in person. A mirrorless camera will be somewhat lighter than a normal DSLR but sometimes I think that a small camera with small buttons might actually be harder to hold and push buttons than a larger camera with larger and more spaced out buttons. In any case, once you put a pro lens on a mirrorless camera that is going to bring the weight up. If you are serious about mirrorless, I'd probably look at Sony first. They seem to be #1 in that department. I doubt that the other companies will let that stand for long though. As far as Canon or Nikon full frame bodies go, they are both fine pieces of equipment and I wouldn't hold it against you for choosing either. At the time I bought my first DSLR I went with Canon because my girlfriend at the time had just bought one and we could learn the buttons and menus together. I also looked at the prices and compared to Nikon they were a little less expensive and had a few more lenses to choose from. Now that is not true except for the lens part. I think Canon still has more lenses to choose from. Now that I know more about both Nikon and Canon I'd have to say that more people say that the Canon lenses lend themselves better to doing portraiture and any kind of pictures with people. I say this because I've heard it over and over again. But Nikon has an advantage with landscape photography supposedly because of the resulting colors and detail. I think Canon had the advantage over Nikon in the wildlife department, but now they are more even and Nikon could possibly be slightly ahead with their D500 body. In any case, they will always be competitive and one will edge over the other from time to time.

If you go to the store and look at them ask the sales person to show you the menus of a Canon and a Nikon. I personally think the Canon menu system is more intuitive than Nikon. There you have it. My general opinion on Nikon and Canon. One thing you are absolutely correct about, once you choose one, you are married to it. I have a $7000 lens, a $5500 lens, a $3500 body, a $2000 body and several $2000 lenses. It would be hard to switch to Nikon and take the hit on getting rid of all this expensive hardware and start over buying the same expensive lenses and bodies.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 5 of 12 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.