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Right to Photograph a child in a Public Place
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Aug 21, 2017 00:05:47   #
epd1947
 
Harvey wrote:
Goly Darn - one more member - besides myself - with some common sense and decency toward others


.


I agree with the decency toward others - but the original question was about the rights of the photographer - and I think people need to understand what their rights actually are so when and if they are told that they can or can't do something they know the truth of the situation. Having said that, I agree that because you might have the right to do something you don't always need to do that something. As a matter of principle I would not take photos of a stranger's child unless I asked first - and, to date, I haven't asked.

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Aug 21, 2017 00:33:03   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
epd1947 wrote:
Commercial use is not simply a matter of money - it generally involves use of a photo in advertising to promote a product. A photographer can earn money from a photograph without it being considered a commercial use of the image. For example, you can sell the use of the photo to a newspaper for their use in an article (that would be an editorial use) or you could sell copies of the photo as art or publish the photo as part of a coffee table book - such usage would fall under the heading of artistic use not commercial. So, the mere fact that the photographer may earn some money from the image does not necessarily make it a commercial use.
Commercial use is not simply a matter of money - i... (show quote)


Right. I had a huge argument with someone here who kept insisting that commercial use did mean anything that made money for the photographer. I kept trying to explain commercial vs. editorial or artistic use, but he refused to understand or accept it.

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Aug 21, 2017 00:59:09   #
fotoman150
 
fourg1b2006 wrote:
You might be 100% correct as far as the law goes. But being correct is sometimes not the right thing to do. If a parent come to me and asked me to delete the photo of her child,i would have done it in a heartbeat. In this world we live in today people are scared. For all they know you could be a pedophile that would put that photo of their child on porn sites. So tell me....was it worth it to be correct.



That's f- ing stupid to think that a pervert would want a picture of a clothed child. What would he do with it? Parents are stupid.

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Aug 21, 2017 01:22:58   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
fotoman150 wrote:
That's f- ing stupid to think that a pervert would want a picture of a clothed child. What would he do with it? Parents are stupid.

As previously stated, the head could be edited to appear on another body and displayed on an inappropriate site; it's been done - BY A MEMBER OF THIS FORUM TO THE PICTURE OF ANOTHER MEMBERS CHILD!

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Aug 21, 2017 01:37:44   #
Vince68 Loc: Wappingers Falls, NY
 
tatala wrote:
Right to photograph a child. I was at a car show in a main street in a town and I photograph a child standing in the street and the mother came up to me and asked me to delete the picture of her child. I than proceeded to explain to her that it was a public place and I was allowed to take all the photos I wanted as long as I didn't use then for a monetary gain.
I might enter her son's picture in a photo club's private competition if it turned out to be good enough in which the reward is a ribbon if it wins. So I was not willing to delete it. She than called over the police who kept me retained for about an hour to see what was to come of this matter and they finally said I had two alternatives. Delete it or give them the camera or be arrested. I really thought I was within the law and I didn't have to delete it but I didn't have much choice here since I didn't want to be arrested and they said my picture would be in the paper and all the pictures I had taken for the day at the car show like 350 including maybe 30 other children would be deleted. What are your thoughts on this? What is the law here? Thanks.
Right to photograph a child. I was at a car show i... (show quote)


17 pages and lots of differing thoughts, opinions and also agreeing on this. I saw one member mention the ACLU, and I did not see anything posted. Here is a link to the ACLU on Photographers knowing your rights and what to do if stopped. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/photographers-what-do-if-you-are-stopped-or-detained-taking-photographs

I googled public photography and rights and found this on Wikipedia website. I copied just the USA part to a word document and am posting that too.

Not saying the OP was wrong or right, but as others have said, the world we live in today is a lot different than when probably a lot of us Hogs grew up. Things have changed a lot, and in reality with all the crazy things that go on today, you can't be too careful, or blame a mother for not wanting you to take her child's picture.

Attached file:
(Download)

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Aug 21, 2017 01:54:50   #
frogcw321 Loc: Riverside
 
DOJ's releasement on the matter of photography in public and right

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/photographers-what-do-if-you-are-stopped-or-detained-taking-photographs

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Aug 21, 2017 02:38:00   #
DJO
 
Tinkwmobile wrote:
A legal guideline:

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

Yes, you have the right; no the police had no grounds. Common sense may have lead to another response.


Bert P. Krages II Attorney at Law, the author and alleged expert, has not cited a single statute or example of case law to support his proclamations, nor is there mention of such in any other web article or personal opinion offered so far in this thread.

These are all delusions of adequacy!

Bert P. Krages II Attorney at Law does, however, provide a disclaimer and his contact information at the end of his narration. It wouldn't be all that great of a leap for someone to construe a bit of ambulance chasing going on.

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Aug 21, 2017 06:37:28   #
Mary Kate Loc: NYC
 
longtimeclicker wrote:
NEVER assume a cop knows what they are talking about when they tell you something is illegal. Unless it is something they deal with every day, they will simply tell you it is illegal because they don't want to be bothered finding out what the law actually is. Once they've taken this position, there is no way they are going to back down unless you get a higher authority involved -- that is simply the personality of the majority of people who choose to become cops. They will also try to bully you into believing that they can confiscate and destroy things when there are very few laws that allow this.

This is relevant because if you're going to stand up for your rights in any situation (not just photography), you need to be prepared to deal with the probable consequences which are almost guaranteed to include an enormous expenditure of time on your part.

I'm not saying not to do it, just choose your battles. To me, this situation didn't sound like a battle worth fighting. Apparently it was for the original poster.

Many people also seem to be missing the important distinction between what is covered by criminal law (could get you arrested) and what is covered by civil law (could get you sued). If it is a civil issue, the only thing at stake is money, not your freedom.
NEVER assume a cop knows what they are talking abo... (show quote)


You may be right about the police. What is even scarier is someone with a camera is now an authority regarding the police.

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Aug 21, 2017 08:23:10   #
Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts
 
DaveO wrote:
I wonder why anyone would want to engage in unnecessary actions that make others uncomfortable, fearful or suspicious of your intentions, particularly with regard to children and the many unsavory incidents involving them.


Because it is how history is recorded and Art is made. Police Dash Cams and Body Cams. News photographers photographing a house fire or picketers at a rally and on and on. Today if the test used is if it makes someone uncomfortable or not no pictures would ever be taken. Here is the complete opposite but entirely valid statement to yours. I wonder why anyone would go out in public if they feel uncomfortable having their picture taken? Does that make sense to you? Because actually that statement is backed up by the law not sentiment like yours is. I understand what you are saying and I am not saying I disagree or agree with you what I am saying is it is just not that simple. Further no one has the right to judge the OP what he did was well within his legal rights. If you or anyone else chooses not to take that same shot that is fine too but no one should judge him, his motives, or his ethics. The OP asked a question about his legal rights in this situation not whether he had the moral or ethical right to do it.

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Aug 21, 2017 08:37:27   #
nimbushopper Loc: Tampa, FL
 
Jaackil wrote:
Because it is how history is recorded and Art is made. Police Dash Cams and Body Cams. News photographers photographing a house fire or picketers at a rally and on and on. Today if the test used is if it makes someone uncomfortable or not no pictures would ever be taken. Here is the complete opposite but entirely valid statement to yours. I wonder why anyone would go out in public if they feel uncomfortable having their picture taken? Does that make sense to you? Because actually that statement is backed up by the law not sentiment like yours is. I understand what you are saying and I am not saying I disagree or agree with you what I am saying is it is just not that simple. Further no one has the right to judge the OP what he did was well within his legal rights. If you or anyone else chooses not to take that same shot that is fine too but no one should judge him, his motives, or his ethics. The OP asked a question about his legal rights in this situation not whether he had the moral or ethical right to do it.
Because it is how history is recorded and Art is m... (show quote)


Very well put!

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Aug 21, 2017 08:41:52   #
Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts
 
DJO wrote:
Bert P. Krages II Attorney at Law, the author and alleged expert, has not cited a single statute or example of case law to support his proclamations, nor is there mention of such in any other web article or personal opinion offered so far in this thread.

These are all delusions of adequacy!

Bert P. Krages II Attorney at Law does, however, provide a disclaimer and his contact information at the end of his narration. It wouldn't be all that great of a leap for someone to construe a bit of ambulance chasing going on.
Bert P. Krages II Attorney at Law, the author and ... (show quote)


No he does not in that particular publication but his assertations are backed up by DOJ letters and ACLU publications which interpret the laws on this subject. Just because he does not cite specific codes and laws does not make his statements incorrect. However on the other hand as a member of his Bar Association he is libel for those statememts because he is giving specific legal advise so there is a reasonable assumption that his statements are correct. He need not cite codes or laws to support his statements. When the architect gives you his proposal for the addition on your house he dosent need to cite the specific codes that say supporting wall studs will be 16 inches on center for it to be true. You can not challege what he says based on the fact he didn't cite a single law. If you want to challenge his statements cite the law he is wrong about

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Aug 21, 2017 08:58:19   #
Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts
 
BHC wrote:
As previously stated, the head could be edited to appear on another body and displayed on an inappropriate site; it's been done - BY A MEMBER OF THIS FORUM TO THE PICTURE OF ANOTHER MEMBERS CHILD!


Ok that is a completely different issue.
In the case where a pervert takes the head of one child and photoshops it onto the body of another for a pornographic purpose to be displayed on an inappropriate site. Or let's say the pervert steals a photograph online of a child even fully clothed and puts it on a inappropriate site. The original photographer still did nothing wrong and is not liable the pervert is. If you own an gun that is legally registered and is properly stored. Someone breaks into your home steals it and commits a crime with it you are not liable so I am not really sure what your statement has to do with the Op's question.

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Aug 21, 2017 09:05:06   #
patriciawest Loc: Lorain, Ohio
 
I try to avoid shooting any faces in my landscape photos, especially children. With all the crazies out there, you don't want to be lumped in with them. A chat with the parent first, business card or maybe make an appointment would be a better way to go about it. When we were at niagara I did take crowd photos....of people taking selfies....but no one seemed to care.

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Aug 21, 2017 09:08:02   #
Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
I agree. Using a wide to normal lens lends an immediacy to street photos where long lenses suggest a distance from the subject. Also, usually you don't want an out of focus background in street photos - the surroundings are an important element.


That just is not true. Many street photographers use 70-200 or longer lenses I have seen some use 85 and 135 primes and those are considered long. And many street photographers do use depth of feild to isolate their subjects. Just google street photography and you will find many examples or shallow depth of feild.

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Aug 21, 2017 09:10:28   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Jaackil wrote:
Ok that is a completely different issue.
In the case where a pervert takes the head of one child and photoshops it onto the body of another for a pornographic purpose to be displayed on an inappropriate site. Or let's say the pervert steals a photograph online of a child even fully clothed and puts it on a inappropriate site. The original photographer still did nothing wrong and is not liable the pervert is. If you own an gun that is legally registered and is properly stored. Someone breaks into your home steals it and commits a crime with it you are not liable so I am not really sure what your statement has to do with the Op's question.
Ok that is a completely different issue. br In th... (show quote)



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