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Right to Photograph a child in a Public Place
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Aug 20, 2017 13:22:48   #
Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!
 
tatala wrote:
To me I believe whatever the law is that is what I have to go by. Keep in mind there are cameras posted everywhere so we all are photographed every second where ever you go. I was using the photo with no evil intentions and would normally have deleted it if asked nicely. I guess I was testing the law and what it was exactly so I knew how to act in my street photography. Even the police didn't know what to do here, it took them over an hour to come up with an answer. I believe the mother after, thinking things over, was hiding the child, from the real father because she was white and the child was black and she was with a white man who could care less that I took the picture. From that point on I figured I just got permission before I took any pictures of a child but I still would like to know the law? Yes you can be a nice guy and delete any picture but that isn't telling me what the law states! Yes I have deleted many pictures that people have requested me to do but I like to tell them what the law is at the same time and than if they still want it deleted I do it.
To me I believe whatever the law is that is what I... (show quote)


Who cares if the law does not prohibit the photographing of children in public, you SHOULD have honored the mothers request to delete the photo. When "photographers" behave like this, it's no wonder photographers inherent such a bad reputation. If a parent or guardian requests that you delete the photo of their child, throw out your "rights" in this type of situation and instead do what's RIGHT for them not for yourself....it's their child not your. :) By the way, you stated the possibility of the mothers movies as to why she did not want the child photograph. Maybe in her mind, your motive was perversion? Just a thought. :)

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Aug 20, 2017 13:27:53   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
I am a big fan of the great street photographers in the history of photography. Some people have asked why anyone would want to photograph strangers, especially kids, without permission on the street. Some even say it is creepy. But if the great street photographers like Henri Cartier Bresson had been required to ask permission before shooting, we would be missing a huge chunk of the greatest photographs ever taken. And to curtail the opportunity to follow in their footsteps today would be unacceptable. I'm sure active, skilled street photographers (which I am not) know they might sometimes offend people, and figure out strategies to lessen that. I have even seen at least one photographer who appears to intentionally piss people off to get photos of pissed off people. That offends me, but the first amendment still covers offensive art.

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Aug 20, 2017 13:31:24   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
blackest wrote:
It pretty much boils down to :-

The law does not apply when:

1)The person appears as a member of the public and is not named or otherwise identified,
2)The name or likeness is associated with a news report or presentation having public interest,
3)The name or likeness is an "expressive work" or "original work of fine art" [terms defined in the statute],
4)The name or likeness is associated with an announcement for a commercial or advertising purpose for certain permitted uses in paragraph (2) and (3) above,
5)It is associated with the identification of a natural person as the author or contributor to a written work, or the performer of a recorded performance under circumstances in which the written work or recorded performance is lawfully produced, reproduced, exhibited, or broadcast.
42 Pa. Cons. Stat. ยง 8316(e)(2).
It pretty much boils down to :- br br The law do... (show quote)

You may be right, although I question the credentials of a resident of a foreign country. But, in all fairness, should not the law be presented in context and in its entirety:

ยง 8316. Unauthorized use of name or likeness.
(a) Cause of action established.--Any natural person whose name or likeness has commercial value and is used for any commercial or advertising purpose without the written consent of such natural person or the written consent of any of the parties authorized in subsection (b) may bring an action to enjoin such unauthorized use and to recover damages for any loss or injury sustained by such use.
(b) Parties authorized to bring action.--Such action may be brought by:
(1) The natural person.
(2) A parent or guardian of a natural person, if the natural person is a minor.
(3) If such natural person is deceased, any person, firm or corporation authorized in writing to license the commercial or advertising use of the natural person's name or likeness by the natural person during the natural person's lifetime or by will or other testamentary device; an executor named in a will or designated by a court of competent jurisdiction; or where there is no such authorization, then by the deceased person's surviving spouse at the time of death until the surviving spouse's death or, in a case where there is no surviving spouse, then any other heir or group of heirs having at least a 50% interest in the deceased person's estate as provided for under law.
(4) Any other person, firm or corporation authorized in writing by such natural person to license the commercial or advertising purposes of the person's name or likeness.
(c) Repose.--No action shall be commenced under this section more than 30 years after the death of such natural person.
(d) Immunity.--No person, firm or corporation, including their employees and agents, in the business of producing, manufacturing, publishing or disseminating material for commercial or advertising purposes by any communications medium shall be held liable under this section unless they had actual knowledge of the unauthorized use of the name or likeness of a natural person as prohibited by this section.
(e) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Commercial or advertising purpose."
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the term shall include the public use or holding out of a natural person's name or likeness:
(i) on or in connection with the offering for sale or sale of a product, merchandise, goods, services or businesses;
(ii) for the purpose of advertising or promoting products, merchandise, goods or services of a business; or
(iii) for the purpose of fundraising.
(2) The term shall not include the public use or holding out of a natural person's name or likeness in a communications medium when:
(i) the natural person appears as a member of the public and the natural person is not named or otherwise identified;
(ii) it is associated with a news report or news presentation having public interest;
(iii) it is an expressive work;
(iv) it is an original work of fine art;
(v) it is associated with announcement for a commercial or advertising purpose for a use permitted by subparagraph (ii), (iii) or (iv); or
(vi) it is associated with the identification of a natural person as the author of or contributor to a written work or the performer of a recorded performance under circumstances in which the written work or the recorded performance is lawfully produced, reproduced, exhibited or broadcast.
"Commercial value." Valuable interest in a natural person's name or likeness that is developed through the investment of time, effort and money.
"Communications medium." Includes, but is not limited to, a newspaper, magazine, book, newsletter, billboard, telephone, radio, television, recording, computer software, digital communications network, transit ad, audiovisual work or global communications network.
"Expressive work." A literary, dramatic, fictional, historical, audiovisual or musical work regardless of the communications medium by which it is exhibited, displayed, performed or transmitted, other than when used or employed for a commercial or advertising purpose.
"Name" or "likeness." Any attribute of a natural person that serves to identify that natural person to an ordinary, reasonable viewer or listener, including, but not limited to, name, signature, photograph, image, likeness, voice or a substantially similar imitation of one or more thereof.
"Natural person." A living person or a deceased person who was domiciled within this Commonwealth at the time of such person's death.
(Dec. 9, 2002, P.L.1320, No.154, eff. 60 days)

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Aug 20, 2017 13:31:40   #
Tet68survivor Loc: Pomfret Center CT
 
Well discretion is the better part of valor, especially if the kid has an irrate Dad! Could be painful!

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Aug 20, 2017 13:34:38   #
Digital1022 Loc: Holland, PA
 
jjyiii wrote:
believing you have a right to privacy in public is a mistake, as long as you are on a public area and the subject, or object are in site of a public area are open to being photographed without any repercussions... The fact a person request you remove, or destroy the photo is your choice, but the law, nor any person demand you to under the treat of incarceration.
I for one will not destroy the photos, but it is a choice, however...if an officer sworn to uphold the law threatens me, I have a lawyer ready to take them, the municipality in to court and trust me, I will own them.
The federal law covers the protection of privacy under the constitution and there is no law that changes this. Even though the affects from 9-11 law tried to make the decision as to the right of privacy. But as much as they tried to harass people doing photos of certain things, the law protected the photographers.
Do as you feel comfortable with doing.
believing you have a right to privacy in public is... (show quote)


You may be well versed in federal law, but you don't know crap about state law and in the case of privacy or taking unauthorized pictures of children or adults, state law governs. Therefore, before I made too many assertions about your lawyer and that you would win hands down, you might want to review your state's statutes on the matter. Don't know where you reside, but in PA and NJ, you won't win with the argument that there is no "federal law". The case will never go to federal law or federal court unless you want to try to make the case that somehow your right is protected under the bill of rights or federal statute. If you bother to review the case law in the state like PA, federal law never enters the process and if you took an image of an individual without his consent, you and your lawyer will probably find yourself in front of a state jury. Good luck with that one.

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Aug 20, 2017 13:34:51   #
Tet68survivor Loc: Pomfret Center CT
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
Guess I will have to give up shooting any high school or college sports...

Cops are not lawyers nor experts in the law. They may know more about aspects of the law than the average person. But they often try to use their Authority and threats to make you comply with their commands.

I wonder if I can continue to shoot trains as I might get a photo of the engineer or conductor doing work. And shooting at the drag races sounds like I could be in trouble there too. See how rediculous this becomes very quickly... And when you consider that most everyone has a still and video camera in their hand today.

Best,
Todd Ferguson
Guess I will have to give up shooting any high sch... (show quote)


Yes your right about Cops and law but if you argue, they'll bust your head and camera!

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Aug 20, 2017 13:37:53   #
dpfoto Loc: Cape Coral, FL
 
That's why it's nice to have a camera with TWO cards (Nikon D800 for example). In a case like this, just remove the unused card from the camera and give it to them. Everyone happily goes their merry way, and YOU still have the images.

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Aug 20, 2017 13:39:30   #
Tet68survivor Loc: Pomfret Center CT
 
dpfoto wrote:
That's why it's nice to have a camera with TWO cards (Nikon D800 for example). In a case like this, just remove the unused card from the camera and give it to them. Everyone happily goes their merry way, and YOU still have the images.


๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

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Aug 20, 2017 13:40:59   #
Nature_Shooter Loc: Chesterfield Missouri
 
Regardless of what the law states, in a case like this, just delete the picture. I get standing up for principle, however, in today's society, I can understand a parent being cautious/protective. They may have a very good reason for not having their child photographed by themselves that is none of your business. Since the only purpose of having the picture is for a contest, what is the harm in deleting it? Pick and choose your battles wisely. This was not a case to do battle.

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Aug 20, 2017 13:51:51   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
Racmanaz wrote:
Who cares if the law does not prohibit the photographing of children in public, you SHOULD have honored the mothers request to delete the photo. When "photographers" behave like this, it's no wonder photographers inherent such a bad reputation. If a parent or guardian requests that you delete the photo of their child, throw out your "rights" in this type of situation and instead do what's RIGHT for them not for yourself....it's their child not your. :) By the way, you stated the possibility of the mothers movies as to why she did not want the child photograph. Maybe in her mind, your motive was perversion? Just a thought. :)
Who cares if the law does not prohibit the photogr... (show quote)


My thoughts also. Couldn't agree more. This is a case where any reasonable person would understand that the protection of one's child ALWAYS trumps the "photographer's" chances in a contest.

How about hiring a model and getting a release instead of exploiting someone else's child?

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Aug 20, 2017 13:53:34   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
dpfoto wrote:
That's why it's nice to have a camera with TWO cards (Nikon D800 for example). In a case like this, just remove the unused card from the camera and give it to them. Everyone happily goes their merry way, and YOU still have the images.


...hahaha...done that!

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Aug 20, 2017 13:56:04   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
There is no right to expect privacy on a public street. If that were the case, Paparazzi's would be out of a job. Photos taken in a public setting are legal. There are exceptions when it comes to military bases and some government installations.
In the case of a minor as a subject, common courtesy should prevail by asking a parent or guardian for permission. I would even tell them I will send them a copy or print if they were okay with the shot. If they refuse permission, I would find another subject and move on, even though you had a legal right to photograph the subject without getting it. Never heard of, read, or was told about "isolation" of a subject. Really can't blame the parent, but cops were ignorant of the law. It was probably not worth pushing it to make a point, but had your situation resulted in an arrest and deletion of your images, it would have been grounds for a lawsuit.
Suggest taking a look at this short video.
https://www.aclu.org/...rights/photographers-what-do-if-you-are-stopped-or-detained-..

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Aug 20, 2017 14:00:43   #
krl48 Loc: NY, PA now SC
 
Gspeed wrote:


First, the photo was not going to be used for promotional or publicity purposes, so it might be outside the scope of the New Jersey law.

Second, your source, DMLP, has not updated the information presented since 2014. 3 years of cases may have changed or even invalidated some or all of NJ's law.

It also doesn't seem to impact the right of the photographer to take the image, but only impact what they may do with it later.

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Aug 20, 2017 14:04:25   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Great research. It's appreciated. However, this entire entry begs the questions. What is an unnatural person? Do unnatural persons have any protections at all? I think you can see where this is going. Apparently, this was of some importance to the person/people who wrote this. It'd be interesting to find out why this was of sufficient importance to specify "natural".

Oh, and for all those opposed to deleting an image. Remember a deleted image can be recovered. Just take the card with the image out of the camera, insert a new one and resume photographing. Of course, it's best to do the card swap discretely.
--Bob

BHC wrote:
You may be right, although I question the credentials of a resident of a foreign country. But, in all fairness, should not the law be presented in context and in its entirety:

ยง 8316. Unauthorized use of name or likeness.
(a) Cause of action established.--Any natural person whose name or likeness has commercial value and is used for any commercial or advertising purpose without the written consent of such natural person or the written consent of any of the parties authorized in subsection (b) may bring an action to enjoin such unauthorized use and to recover damages for any loss or injury sustained by such use.
(b) Parties authorized to bring action.--Such action may be brought by:
(1) The natural person.
(2) A parent or guardian of a natural person, if the natural person is a minor.
(3) If such natural person is deceased, any person, firm or corporation authorized in writing to license the commercial or advertising use of the natural person's name or likeness by the natural person during the natural person's lifetime or by will or other testamentary device; an executor named in a will or designated by a court of competent jurisdiction; or where there is no such authorization, then by the deceased person's surviving spouse at the time of death until the surviving spouse's death or, in a case where there is no surviving spouse, then any other heir or group of heirs having at least a 50% interest in the deceased person's estate as provided for under law.
(4) Any other person, firm or corporation authorized in writing by such natural person to license the commercial or advertising purposes of the person's name or likeness.
(c) Repose.--No action shall be commenced under this section more than 30 years after the death of such natural person.
(d) Immunity.--No person, firm or corporation, including their employees and agents, in the business of producing, manufacturing, publishing or disseminating material for commercial or advertising purposes by any communications medium shall be held liable under this section unless they had actual knowledge of the unauthorized use of the name or likeness of a natural person as prohibited by this section.
(e) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Commercial or advertising purpose."
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the term shall include the public use or holding out of a natural person's name or likeness:
(i) on or in connection with the offering for sale or sale of a product, merchandise, goods, services or businesses;
(ii) for the purpose of advertising or promoting products, merchandise, goods or services of a business; or
(iii) for the purpose of fundraising.
(2) The term shall not include the public use or holding out of a natural person's name or likeness in a communications medium when:
(i) the natural person appears as a member of the public and the natural person is not named or otherwise identified;
(ii) it is associated with a news report or news presentation having public interest;
(iii) it is an expressive work;
(iv) it is an original work of fine art;
(v) it is associated with announcement for a commercial or advertising purpose for a use permitted by subparagraph (ii), (iii) or (iv); or
(vi) it is associated with the identification of a natural person as the author of or contributor to a written work or the performer of a recorded performance under circumstances in which the written work or the recorded performance is lawfully produced, reproduced, exhibited or broadcast.
"Commercial value." Valuable interest in a natural person's name or likeness that is developed through the investment of time, effort and money.
"Communications medium." Includes, but is not limited to, a newspaper, magazine, book, newsletter, billboard, telephone, radio, television, recording, computer software, digital communications network, transit ad, audiovisual work or global communications network.
"Expressive work." A literary, dramatic, fictional, historical, audiovisual or musical work regardless of the communications medium by which it is exhibited, displayed, performed or transmitted, other than when used or employed for a commercial or advertising purpose.
"Name" or "likeness." Any attribute of a natural person that serves to identify that natural person to an ordinary, reasonable viewer or listener, including, but not limited to, name, signature, photograph, image, likeness, voice or a substantially similar imitation of one or more thereof.
"Natural person." A living person or a deceased person who was domiciled within this Commonwealth at the time of such person's death.
(Dec. 9, 2002, P.L.1320, No.154, eff. 60 days)
You may be right, although I question the credenti... (show quote)

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Aug 20, 2017 14:11:15   #
Japakomom Loc: Originally from the Last Frontier
 
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
This is a case where any reasonable person would understand that the protection of one's child ALWAYS trumps the "photographer's" chances in a contest.


It is such a simple answer to this situation.
Why would you want to go against the parents wishes? How embarrassing to have your wants supersede such a simple request from the child's parent. Have some common decency!

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