greymule Loc: Colorado

GOP propaganda seemed to work well and is still working well

We as a Country are Doomed by our own ignorance


http://www.kunc.org/post/study-death-panel-myth-persists-one-third-americans-still-believe-false-claim

SteveR Loc: Michigan

I don't know, greymule, what were these panels that tried to get rid of mammograms and the psa test? Look for more. We have a friend who lives in England. She needed a heart bypass but couldn't get it because of her age. She was in her sixties.

Croce Loc: Earth

The so called "Death Panel" could euphemistically be called "underwriting guidelines". All insurance companies have them and they set forth how claims are to be treated. The "Death Panel" scare is quite understandable to me. It is a foregone conclusion that a person of advanced age, say 75, will not benefit as much from a heart or kidney transplant as a person of say 45 will, given good initial outcomes from the proceedure. The practice of most insurers is to control costs, and the dominant fear people have of Obamacare is that it will do so in a more stringent fashion. Application of such policies are what is referred to as the "Death Panel". It can be expected that although no panel actually exists, underwriting rules will be put in place which preclude the possibility of older patients receiving expensive life saving proceedures due to a lower cost/benefit expectation. Read SteveR's post, second post on this subject for an example. In reality there will be an effect similar to what a "Death Panel" if it existed, could impose. If it is not there now, it could be amended without legislative action by the administering bureaucracy at any time in the future. Insurers guard against such cost over runs by placing per illness and lifetime limits such as in major med policies, on claim payouts and/or hiking premiums to cover those costs and by maintaining the right to not insure a high risk person due to pre existing conditions. Guess which option is most likely to be imposed by our government. The one applied in Steves post. Hence the fear of a "Death Panel" effect. Of course similar policies could be applied to other types of patients also. Advanced age guidelines could also be expanded in the future to include those with debilitating congenital conditions such as cerebral palsy, severe mental retardation or whatever. People of very high cost/benefit expectations. These factors are what is feared.

jdtx Loc: SA, Tx.

the name is a bit overdone maybe, but the results are the same

bookergt Loc: Georgia

People tend to believe what they want to believe. Some people ask real questions and do actual research to find answers. Others simply listen to what "they" said or believe because it was on TV and it must be true.

gstephan73 Loc: California, Nevada, and Minnesota

So, would you rather a for (their) profit insurance company lackey determine medical payments for your or your loved ones untreated terminal condition, or a government not-for-profit government administrator?

Croce Loc: Earth

The problem Gstephan is that the government will come to the point where although not for profit they will run up against budget constraints. This government has only money that it takes from you as a taxpayer. That is not an infinite resource. As happens in all the other countries with similar systems, financial reckoning inevitably occurs. Since the money pot is then empty, restriction or rationing of services is the only other alternative besides printing money until the money is worthless. As the old saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Everything has its price and everything has its limitation. Cruel fact of life. Your question then is not a no brainer. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

pigpen

First of all, nobody really knows what is in this GIANT bill. Pelosi herself said brilliantly, "We have to pass it , to know what's in it." There's an example of our congress doing their job.

Secondly, I remember hearing BamBam saying something along the lines of , "Maybe grandma will just have to take a pill." That was in response to someone asking about denying operations to the elderly. Whether you call it a "death panel" or not, that is still someone deciding the length and/or quality of someone else's life.

My wife's grandmother had a heart attack at 82. She required a quadruple bypass. She is now 96, and going strong. If someone had told her to just "take a pill" 14 years ago, we would have buried her long ago.

Personally, I have known many people, including elderly, that have needed major operations and procedures. I don't know ANY who have been refused for any reason, including age.

If you want call "death panels" a myth, go ahead. Just like Pelosi said, we won't know until it's implemented. Then it's too late.

Why would you possibly want to trust or believe the goverment. ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY HAVE VOTED TO MAKE THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES EXEMPT FROM THIS HEALTHCARE. That doesn't throw up a red flag to you people? And why have it not take affect until 2014 if it's so wonderful? I'll tell you why. So that the truth of it will not hinder BamBam's relection campaign. "This is very important for America, we must push this bill through. Oh, and by the way, you won't get it for 3 1/2 years."

viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

There is no age barrier in the NHS in the UK. If the story of the refusal of the bypass is correct she could have appealed but I don't believe it. I know of several pople in the 70s who have had a bypass op. More likely there was a medical reason.I have a friend in his 90s who had a knee replacement.
All I know is, if I am ill I will get treatment and noone will ask for my credit card.Non-urgent cases will have to wait a maximum os eighteen weeks but that's a small price to pay for peace of mind.

Reddog Loc: Southern Calif

Janet Brewer was the only one with Death Panels! O' Wait Cant Be she's GOP!!

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Great find, SteveR; a typical right wing attack on socialized medicine in other countries. It makes us all shake our heads in fear and gratitude that we don't live there. However, the UK is 30th on the latest CIA World Factbook in life expectancy, and the US is 50th. Other lists are virtually identical.

I resort to life expectancy, because there are so many aspects of a health care system that it is easy to find an apparent glitch int he system, real or fictitious, that attempts to discredit the entire system. Moreover, tracking down anecdotal evidence, such as you raised is nearly impossible. Without fail, all the countries whose socialized systems are periodically under right wing attack have life expectancy better than our own. The reason is socialized medicine works, and our pay or die system does not.

During the Bush administration an average of 48,000 Americans died of treatable causes. They were not treated because they did not have the money. A simple matter, such as high blood pressure will eventually kill a person if left untreated. The coup de grace via stroke may come decades before it would if the person lived in England, where contrary to what you say, people are indeed treated for illnesses.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

That's good to hear. I was only repeating what I'd heard from the woman herself a number of years ago. I don't know what the exact particulars were except that she had a heart episode of some kind. She was in the states visiting her daughter when she told us, so apparently she didn't drop over dead without it.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

Ah, the right wing extremist defense. It seems that anybody who disagrees with Nagy is a right wing extremist. What is the explanation, however, for the mammogram and psa panels? Just a question from right field, so to speak.

PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Disagrees with Nagy? You disagree with facts by inventing or passing on Fixed News alarmist lies about health care systems, apparently either out an of unexamined knee jerk loyalty to your sources, or because you have become one of their clones. Yes, the tactic of assailing the health care systems that are better than ours is a right wing tactic. Moreover, the primary point of what I said was not the right wing defense. I quoted to you from the CIA Factbook. Examine the rationality of your original point vis a vis the data in CIA Factbook, please.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

Nagy, everything everywhere is better than America. Why are you here?