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Health Care Logic is missing.
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Jul 20, 2017 15:25:26   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
For quite some time I have been wondering just what was wrong/bad in Obama care and just why these portions had not been addressed, fixed and/or replaced rather than do as the Trump wants to do repeal it and replace it with another totally different plan that has been kept secret and the only thing we hear about is it will cost more, be unaffordable by millions and repaid with tax credits that millions could not use because they can't work to earn the money needed to buy this insurance. These politicians who are pushing this plan need to get out of their office and down into the streets, employment offices, food banks, county welfare offices where the people they are supposed to be representing exist.

It lifted my hopes for this country when those few Republican used their conscience instead of political party when not voting for Trumps plan.

By the way for millions of folks here in many parts of the USA there is just "NO" such thing as "Go Out and Get A Job" that is steady work and pays at or above poverty scale. Those who are in denial of this fact just are blind to the reality that exists in many of our cities, and rural areas throughout our nation. Yes The Trump is well aware of this as he is "Against" higher wages as he has said and proved by applying for "THOUSANDS" of visas for foreign works to work for poverty wages at his resorts and winery.

It would be a good thing if the folks of this country could do as The Trump does - use the program and then not pay for it as The Trump does so many of the businesses and people "He" screws over.

I hope some of you here on UHH can help me understand why this is bothering me.

Harvey

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 15:35:37   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
I am sure that you will get many helpful responses.

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 15:37:50   #
Jerry Coupe Loc: Kent, WA
 
I just logged in and read your message, after send e-mails this morning to both of my senators and my representative suggesting that the Democrats should now take over the driver's seat, identify fixes to the ACA (we need to get away from the "Obamacare brand" terminology due to the extensive fear among Trump supporters that the white folk are losing control in the US).
Then the Dems need to take the 'case for their fixes' directly to the whole population, and also make clear that they are more than willing to have conferences, committee meetings and broad input to fix health care for the future.
Ultimately, the Country needs a bi-partisan bill or fix. And the Country needs to get all senators and representatives listening to their constituents.

Reply
 
 
Jul 20, 2017 15:51:15   #
orrie smith Loc: Kansas
 
Harvey wrote:
For quite some time I have been wondering just what was wrong/bad in Obama care and just why these portions had not been addressed, fixed and/or replaced rather than do as the Trump wants to do repeal it and replace it with another totally different plan that has been kept secret and the only thing we hear about is it will cost more, be unaffordable by millions and repaid with tax credits that millions could not use because they can't work to earn the money needed to buy this insurance. These politicians who are pushing this plan need to get out of their office and down into the streets, employment offices, food banks, county welfare offices where the people they are supposed to be representing exist.

It lifted my hopes for this country when those few Republican used their conscience instead of political party when not voting for Trumps plan.

By the way for millions of folks here in many parts of the USA there is just "NO" such thing as "Go Out and Get A Job" that is steady work and pays at or above poverty scale. Those who are in denial of this fact just are blind to the reality that exists in many of our cities, and rural areas throughout our nation. Yes The Trump is well aware of this as he is "Against" higher wages as he has said and proved by applying for "THOUSANDS" of visas for foreign works to work for poverty wages at his resorts and winery.

It would be a good thing if the folks of this country could do as The Trump does - use the program and then not pay for it as The Trump does so many of the businesses and people "He" screws over.

I hope some of you here on UHH can help me understand why this is bothering me.

Harvey
For quite some time I have been wondering just wha... (show quote)


What is wrong with Obama Care is that is a social health care system, we already have a social health care system to help the poor and unemployed. The Trump Care would be as wrong as Obama Care, in my opinion. The government is here to help regulate insurance costs and regulate health care costs, not provide health care to all the people. I am in my late sixties and am able to remember health care when the insurance actually paid claims to any medical care person or hospital without a lot of question, and not need to be in a network where we are limited to facilities and doctors we may see. The system worked and worked well. The government needs to restore this system rather than create something new that will just fail.
As to higher wages, if you are talking about minimum wage, when you raise the wages, companies will just raise their prices and your wages will be worthless. Research and look at what the dollar was worth in 1960 as compared to today. This is primarily due to minimum wage increases. I cannot recall which state just initiated a minimum wage increase, but the employees found they were making less money now than before the wage increase due to hours being cut to compensate for the higher wages. It is a lose lose situation.
I realize there is no easy solution to these problems, but bringing jobs back to the United States, rather than farming them out to foreign countries would be a great start.

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 15:57:25   #
DrPhrogg Loc: NJ
 
I agree on so many issues here. Most of Congress, both Dems & GOP, have no idea what the average person has to do just to get by. While they all "support our military", they vote to cut the funds that families need. Housing, Commissary, medical, all used to support the family. However, if a soldier is deployed, very often the family ends up on welfare to get by. This is wrong. The GOP argued for years that health care should be available across state lines. They now have an absolute majority, and can't get this simple thing done without complicating it with tax cuts for the rich, who don't need it. Instead of one, big, complicated bill, fix all the little problems. ACA is not failing. It is being sabotaged by those who didn't like the idea that Obama got it passed when the idea was originally a conservative one. (Heritage Foundation plan- first used in MA by Romney) Remember, Obamacare was a label adopted by the GOP. So many people want Obamacare gone, just don't touch their ACA.
Perhaps term limits is the answer. You get a total of 12 years in Federal elected service, or 15 years combined state plus federal elected positions, and you are not eligible to run again. Period! We need elected officials who are representing the people of their district rather than the party or their own re-election. Jefferson said it well. Service is not a career, it is an honor. You serve your term, then go home and earn a living under the laws you wrote

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 16:03:38   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
DrPhrogg wrote:
I agree on so many issues here. Most of Congress, both Dems & GOP, have no idea what the average person has to do just to get by. While they all "support our military", they vote to cut the funds that families need. Housing, Commissary, medical, all used to support the family. However, if a soldier is deployed, very often the family ends up on welfare to get by. This is wrong. The GOP argued for years that health care should be available across state lines. They now have an absolute majority, and can't get this simple thing done without complicating it with tax cuts for the rich, who don't need it. Instead of one, big, complicated bill, fix all the little problems. ACA is not failing. It is being sabotaged by those who didn't like the idea that Obama got it passed when the idea was originally a conservative one. (Heritage Foundation plan- first used in MA by Romney) Remember, Obamacare was a label adopted by the GOP. So many people want Obamacare gone, just don't touch their ACA.
Perhaps term limits is the answer. You get a total of 12 years in Federal elected service, or 15 years combined state plus federal elected positions, and you are not eligible to run again. Period! We need elected officials who are representing the people of their district rather than the party or their own re-election. Jefferson said it well. Service is not a career, it is an honor. You serve your term, then go home and earn a living under the laws you wrote
I agree on so many issues here. Most of Congress, ... (show quote)

"...if a soldier is deployed, very often the family ends up on welfare to get by." You have absolutely not an inkling of military pay and benefits. For those that wish to argue, please refer to military pay rates, housing, subsistence, medical and how much of this income is tax free before replying.

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 16:13:20   #
blue-ultra Loc: New Hampshire
 
Bottom line, Government should not be in the health care insurance business. The ACA was written by the insurance companies to assure that they made a good profit.

The current plan is in my personal opinion illegal. The government has no right to require the citizens of this country to buy any product. The skirted this by saying it was a tax and the government has a right to tax people.

The problem here is that many of us that had insurance that was reasonable with reasonable deductibles were forced to pay for those who never had insurance and the net result was that many if not most saw their premiums go up in thousands of dollars with extremely high deductibles. Thus shifting the cost of health care cost to the middle class.

It is far too easy to blame Trump and the republicans for the mess, but you need to remember the Democrats wrote the bill with their friends in the insurance business and passed it without one single republican vote…

While it is now the republican job to fix this mess there is major disagreement on what on how to do it.
The real issue is once you give something for free it is very difficult to pull it back.

I sincerely believe that the government should not be in the insurance business and allow the free market to determine the cost based on need for the individual. The government role should be to regulate the insurance business so that people are not taken advantage of, We have examples of government regulations to protect the public, such as automobile, aviation, business, home and fire, the list goes on.

The last thing we should want is the government running health care they fail at this all one has to do is to look at the post office, UPS and Fed EX would have never been created if the government knew how to operate a business.

Reply
 
 
Jul 20, 2017 16:13:39   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
I have seen and read that and I find it rediculious that our service men and women are not paid a living wage to support their families.
DaveO wrote:
"...if a soldier is deployed, very often the family ends up on welfare to get by." You have absolutely not an inkling of military pay and benefits. For those that wish to argue, please refer to military pay rates, housing, subsistence, medical and how much of this income is tax free before replying.

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 16:16:46   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
Harvey wrote:
I have seen and read that and I find it rediculious that our service men and women are not paid a living wage to support their families.


Unfortunately you replied with zero knowledge of wages and benefits. Silly me, I kind of knew that most wouldn't bother to verify this information.

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 16:21:20   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
The government could not even run Joe Conforti's Mustang Ranch in Reno, nv that he had made millions with the IRS took it over for back taxes and went broke. LOL - for those who do not know Mustang Ranch was a Whorehouse, bar, gambling house (slots only)

blue-ultra wrote:
Bottom line, Government should not be in the health care insurance business. The ACA was written by the insurance companies to assure that they made a good profit.

The current plan is in my personal opinion illegal. The government has no right to require the citizens of this country to buy any product. The skirted this by saying it was a tax and the government has a right to tax people.

The problem here is that many of us that had insurance that was reasonable with reasonable deductibles were forced to pay for those who never had insurance and the net result was that many if not most saw their premiums go up in thousands of dollars with extremely high deductibles. Thus shifting the cost of health care cost to the middle class.

It is far too easy to blame Trump and the republicans for the mess, but you need to remember the Democrats wrote the bill with their friends in the insurance business and passed it without one single republican vote…

While it is now the republican job to fix this mess there is major disagreement on what on how to do it.
The real issue is once you give something for free it is very difficult to pull it back.

I sincerely believe that the government should not be in the insurance business and allow the free market to determine the cost based on need for the individual. The government role should be to regulate the insurance business so that people are not taken advantage of, We have examples of government regulations to protect the public, such as automobile, aviation, business, home and fire, the list goes on.

The last thing we should want is the government running health care they fail at this all one has to do is to look at the post office, UPS and Fed EX would have never been created if the government knew how to operate a business.
Bottom line, Government should not be in the healt... (show quote)

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 17:24:40   #
shangyrhee Loc: Nashville TN to Sacramento CA
 
Let us put our political bias aside for a moment. How many of you want to get rid of Medicare for our senior citizens ? The program is government run single payer and socialistic program. I am willing to bet my money for 90% senior & perhaps 80% entire population. If Part D is allowed to negotiate with drug companies the total cost would be much less . The current statistics show Medicare expense is le s than private health care companies and we get less hassle than private ins companies. All developed countries in Europe & Asia spend 5% less than US covering 100 % their populations where as US covers less than 84%. The outcome of health care is much better as well The ACA is working on the basis of Medicare Model in light version meaning that everyone has to support,(pay)preexcisting condition should be covered & common sense negotiation for cost control. If private companies are not willing there has to be safety net I e public /gov. The ACA or another alternative plan will not work if you remove any essential component. Lying or deception does not work in this world. Shang

Reply
 
 
Jul 20, 2017 17:51:22   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
shangyrhee wrote:
Let us put our political bias aside for a moment. How many of you want to get rid of Medicare for our senior citizens ? The program is government run single payer and socialistic program. I am willing to bet my money for 90% senior & perhaps 80% entire population. If Part D is allowed to negotiate with drug companies the total cost would be much less . The current statistics show Medicare expense is le s than private health care companies and we get less hassle than private ins companies. All developed countries in Europe & Asia spend 5% less than US covering 100 % their populations where as US covers less than 84%. The outcome of health care is much better as well The ACA is working on the basis of Medicare Model in light version meaning that everyone has to support,(pay)preexcisting condition should be covered & common sense negotiation for cost control. If private companies are not willing there has to be safety net I e public /gov. The ACA or another alternative plan will not work if you remove any essential component. Lying or deception does not work in this world. Shang
Let us put our political bias aside for a moment. ... (show quote)


Pretty close!

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 18:56:20   #
ken hubert Loc: Missouri
 
Harvey wrote:
For quite some time I have been wondering just what was wrong/bad in Obama care and just why these portions had not been addressed, fixed and/or replaced rather than do as the Trump wants to do repeal it and replace it with another totally different plan that has been kept secret and the only thing we hear about is it will cost more, be unaffordable by millions and repaid with tax credits that millions could not use because they can't work to earn the money needed to buy this insurance. These politicians who are pushing this plan need to get out of their office and down into the streets, employment offices, food banks, county welfare offices where the people they are supposed to be representing exist.

It lifted my hopes for this country when those few Republican used their conscience instead of political party when not voting for Trumps plan.

By the way for millions of folks here in many parts of the USA there is just "NO" such thing as "Go Out and Get A Job" that is steady work and pays at or above poverty scale. Those who are in denial of this fact just are blind to the reality that exists in many of our cities, and rural areas throughout our nation. Yes The Trump is well aware of this as he is "Against" higher wages as he has said and proved by applying for "THOUSANDS" of visas for foreign works to work for poverty wages at his resorts and winery.

It would be a good thing if the folks of this country could do as The Trump does - use the program and then not pay for it as The Trump does so many of the businesses and people "He" screws over.

I hope some of you here on UHH can help me understand why this is bothering me.

Harvey
For quite some time I have been wondering just wha... (show quote)


You kidding??? They ALL need out of office. Permanently! On both sides!

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 18:57:29   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
ken hubert wrote:
You kidding??? They ALL need out of office. Permanently! On both sides!


Not to worry, they'll be going on break shortly to rest up.

Reply
Jul 20, 2017 18:58:29   #
ken hubert Loc: Missouri
 
Jerry Coupe wrote:
I just logged in and read your message, after send e-mails this morning to both of my senators and my representative suggesting that the Democrats should now take over the driver's seat, identify fixes to the ACA (we need to get away from the "Obamacare brand" terminology due to the extensive fear among Trump supporters that the white folk are losing control in the US).
Then the Dems need to take the 'case for their fixes' directly to the whole population, and also make clear that they are more than willing to have conferences, committee meetings and broad input to fix health care for the future.
Ultimately, the Country needs a bi-partisan bill or fix. And the Country needs to get all senators and representatives listening to their constituents.
I just logged in and read your message, after send... (show quote)


Your first paragraph showed your stupidity and partisonship. Now no one will take you seriously

Reply
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