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Jul 12, 2017 17:24:33   #
whitewolfowner
 
chasgroh wrote:
...really? Sez you! Your condescension aside, I regard it as a small, really insignificant, fee for good tools. I make my living from good tools in cabinetry/carpentry and learned looooooong ago that that's *the* way to craft better, more efficient, product. And as a result, make consistent money. Someone could say that chipped flint has a better cutting edge but I don't use those tools and would much rather buy, then take my circular blades to a professional sharpener when they need it. I am turning my photography into money, slowly but surely, and will pay the price for the tools necessary to enable that goal. YMMV.
...really? Sez you! Your condescension aside, I ... (show quote)



And some word workers sharpen their won tools themselves and feel they get a better job for it. Some have only a few tools in their shop and make do with what they have; they innovate and make what they have work; some even use tools that do use electricity and they make beautiful cabinetry and instruments. The point is; you do not need the latest and greatest of everything to produce good work. Marketing makes you think you do but I guess it comes to who controls your mind; you or the media?

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Jul 12, 2017 17:26:44   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
blackest wrote:
There are a few holes here, I bought lightroom 5 in 2015 i think at full price around $142 I think, if i wanted to upgrade to lightroom standalone it would be $72 from any version of lightroom, any. Roughly every couple of years Adobe has put out a new version. So lightroom 7 if it is to be released should be this year. If they offer the same upgrade deal as they have for 6 then it should cost me around $72 I think thats worthwhile for me and a good reason not to buy 6.

if we work on lightroom 1 being $142 and $72 per upgrade 2,3,4,5,6 that would be around $500 if you skipped 1 each time it's around $280.

On your 10 year cycle thats between $28 and $50 a year compared with $120 a year (being European i can't get that low a subscription rate anyway).

I'm doing better on the standalone front with Lightroom and Affinity Photo, than I would be with a subscription. Unfortunately i buy lenses

so financially no better off
There are a few holes here, I bought lightroom 5 i... (show quote)

I don't know about you, but for me.... between golf and photography... I'd save money on drugs, alcohol and loose women!

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Jul 12, 2017 17:37:06   #
whitewolfowner
 
DWU2 wrote:
Don't assume that just because you use a Mac that a Mac OS upgrade won't kill LR5. Here's what Scott Kelby said about the NIK issue, which is equally applicable to older versions of LR:
https://scottkelby.com/google-makes-official-nik-collection-dead-qa/. Also, I don't think Adobe is ever going to introduce LR7 in a standalone version. Why should they? If that was their intention, they'd be selling upgrades to the standalone version of LR6. Finally, if you're not using plug-ins, why not? I'd suggest you rethink that.
Don't assume that just because you use a Mac that ... (show quote)



They said that about ligthroom 6 too; so only time will tell. And even if they come out with lightroom 7 doesn't mean I have to go run and buy it either. I would only get it if I could justify the purchase. I never said that macs never hurt the functioning of software when they upgrade it. Actually, I never commented on it at all. But, for your information, I am running three operating systems on my mac right now (you can do that on a mac; I think you can to on a PC, but not sure and don't care, really). I am running 10.6.8, for the sole purpose to be able to run several programs for earlier years, 10.9.5, mostly to be able to ilife before they destroyed in the same manner they destroyed Final Cut and 10.10.5 for everything else. Don't bother to tell me that 10.10 is out of date, I know they have at least 110.12 out there; but again, I do not have to have the latest and greatest the second it comes out; it all in your mind set and how much marketing has control of your mind. I will upgrade to a newer version of OS when there is reason for me to do so, but not sooner. I have no need for plug ins; lightroom does everything I need it to do for me. Why buy a royals royce when a Prius does the job? Just because some add in a magazine or on TV tells me that I have to have this does not mean they are right. When I see an add, I will check out the product; if I need it or would like it I strive to obtain it; if not there is no reason to buy it.

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Jul 12, 2017 17:50:14   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
And some word workers sharpen their won tools themselves and feel they get a better job for it. Some have only a few tools in their shop and make do with what they have; they innovate and make what they have work; some even use tools that do use electricity and they make beautiful cabinetry and instruments. The point is; you do not need the latest and greatest of everything to produce good work. Marketing makes you think you do but I guess it comes to who controls your mind; you or the media?
And some word workers sharpen their won tools them... (show quote)

Only the professionals on this board "need" any particular software. A hobby isn't about needs, but wants and recreation. I say carpe diem!
When the hobby becomes more than I can afford without buying groceries or paying power bills, I'll find a new one. I can always resort to playing solitaire on my 1997 Win 95 laptop.

As for the media, please. That fear is for the weak minds who still want to hang on to the "good old days." Anybody over the age of 19 should be able to discern the difference.
If you can't afford updates, or have other priorities like feeding a family, there's no shame, just say "too rich for my blood."
But don't try to justify your stance to others with condescension, made up facts and weak-ass insinuations.

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Jul 12, 2017 18:15:35   #
whitewolfowner
 
mikeroetex wrote:
Only the professionals on this board "need" any particular software. A hobby isn't about needs, but wants and recreation. I say carpe diem!
When the hobby becomes more than I can afford without buying groceries or paying power bills, I'll find a new one. I can always resort to playing solitaire on my 1997 Win 95 laptop.

As for the media, please. That fear is for the weak minds who still want to hang on to the "good old days." Anybody over the age of 19 should be able to discern the difference.
If you can't afford updates, or have other priorities like feeding a family, there's no shame, just say "too rich for my blood."
But don't try to justify your stance to others with condescension, made up facts and weak-ass insinuations.
Only the professionals on this board "need&qu... (show quote)



And what did I say that was a made up fact. And if you think that the media is not influencing you, then you may be among the most controlled by them. I have worked for years as a professional and have photos published all over the world; too many to even try to guess how many since I was 19-20 years old and got my first photo journalist job. Not all pros need the latest and greatest software or everything out there. It all depends on their skill level and the type of shooting they are doing. Generally speaking, it's usaully the hobbyist that has a ton of gear laying around; pros buy what they need for their work and when a special job comes along that demand a special lens out of their bag of tricks, they borrow or rent.

And I never said anything about financial situation of me or anyone else. I am a practical person and get what I need and some times. Yes I have to sacrifice and scrimp sometimes to get it and sometimes not, just as most of us do. At least we both agree hat we do not make our families suffer so we can save for something.

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Jul 13, 2017 01:32:00   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
And what did I say that was a made up fact.
You mean other than claiming to own a product for seven years that was released 4 years ago?
whitewolfowner wrote:
And if you think that the media is not influencing you, then you may be among the most controlled by them.
Actually, I was in the media, a reporter for more than 15 years and my mind control powers are very strong young Jedi!
whitewolfowner wrote:
I have worked for years as a professional and have photos published all over the world
Then why don't you post some of them and share so we may all learn??
I'd buy more of what you are selling, except for in a year since joining here, you have created 8 topics, added 3664 messages and I can't find even one photo.
whitewolfowner wrote:
And I never said anything about financial situation of me or anyone else.
How soon we forget....
whitewolfowner wrote:
Some folks take multiple $25,000 vacations a year, others own a camera store in their houses with everything ever produced since the dawn of the camera, some spend over $100,000 on a rare stamp without a thought. Then there are those of us who scrimp and save for years to buy a lens or new camera and have to watch every dollar they spend.
whitewolfowner wrote:
At least we both agree that we do not make our families suffer so we can save for something.

The only thing I'm afraid, but it's a free country and we all are entitled to an opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Good day!

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Jul 13, 2017 01:58:51   #
whitewolfowner
 
mikeroetex wrote:
Your argument is well supported and if this were a high school debate tournament, in theory you would score several points. But theory is never reality. If only technology stood still. I remember my dad offering, in 1994, to pick me up a "deal" on a 70 meg hard drive for my x286 PC (with my new CGA monitor). My reply was that I could never imagine needing that much storage space. Now we have apps that are bigger than 70MB, some RAW photos bigger and even email attachments of 5mb are common. Oh wait, that offer was before email was available to the public.

In 2007, LR was on version 1.3.1, not version 5. That's the year when I bought my first DSLR. A Nikon D40 with a whopping 6mp. Still have it today and my wife loves using it. I've upgraded cameras thrice, desktops 3 times and laptops twice in last 7 years. Why? Well, FIOS didn't work with a 33k baud modem and I didn't have hours to wait for simple browsers to load. MS Office ate up all my HD space. Fast moving grandkids and a desire for more resolution and larger prints. Photographing my first love, football. and on and on ...

AND, I started saving pics to HD and a 1TB external drive, which I thought would be more space than I could conceivably ever need (belly laugh and knee slap here for not learning old lessons, doomed to repeat history, etc).
I'm quite sure LR 1.3.1 wouldn't even recognize a D500 NEF file. Maybe not even LR 5?

BTW.... here is where your passionate premise based on dubious supposition falls apart. Fact check...courtesy of Adobe website... In 2010, LR was only on version 3.3 by year end, with the introduction of a point curve. LR 5 was released in 2013, so you couldn't have had it for 7 years yet. It also requires OS X 10.7 or WIN 7 or 8 to operate (oops, another NEW PC purchase!)

So if I had to purchase new LR versions to keep up with my camera needs (desires?) and PC and OS to match.... in today's dollars I would likely have bought versions 1.3, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 for $149 each plus some necessary updates at $79 each (x 3 minimum) ...... all equals = $1131. Had it been available, I would spread LR CC over 120 months at $9.95 (excluding taxes on both sides of argument because I've lived in 4 states) = $1194.
A $63 difference or $6.30 per year, or $.53 per month.

I'll just remember to turn the lights off and lower the thermostat at night and pay for that "convenience" fee.
Your argument is well supported and if this were a... (show quote)




Your facts are screwed. I never said I got it in 2007. I may be off for lightroom 5 by a year or two, but I started using it on a 2009 early mac mini which runs 10.6.8 and ran fine on it as long as I was using the Nikon D80. I used it for a couple of years that way. Then when my son got to the university and needed a camera, (this was the fall of 2013) and needed a camera, the D80 went with him. When I got a D750 a few year after that (can't remember how long it was, seemed like forever), the mac mini so just too slow to process the 24mp files. It did the job but drive me crazy. I had to upgrade the computer then and I have had this one now for two to three years. So I definitely had it before 2013.

i know all about the hard drive issue; it also applies to memory. I had a used 2001-2002 mac desk top and it had a 13mb hard drive in it. Today I'm running well over 30TB of hard drive space and 64GB of memory. Sounds like a lot now but give a few years. I built it for the future to hopefully last the next ten years (hopefully). By then It'll probably be a dinosaur.

Your math is for having the latest and greatest all the time. You don't seem to get it that not everyone needs it. Even many pros don't need it all the time depending on the type of photography they are doing. Just as an artistic photo does not need the greatest camera in the world, neither does one need the latest and greatest in software. and even with you having to have everything as soon as it came out, wether you needed it or not, you are still paying more and you proved it.

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Jul 13, 2017 03:20:29   #
whitewolfowner
 
mikeroetex wrote:
The only thing I'm afraid, but it's a free country and we all are entitled to an opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Good day!


Being a photojournalist, how poorly your reading skills are.

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Jul 13, 2017 09:25:16   #
a1demo Loc: San Diego CA.
 

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Jul 13, 2017 11:19:10   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
Kuzano wrote:
I dumped LR CC very soon. In my estimation the real problem with the Adobe products is the Catalog system. It does not work well. The import function breaks far too easily.


...only when we humans do something we shouldn't do....

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Jul 13, 2017 12:54:00   #
blue-ultra Loc: New Hampshire
 
rehess wrote:
I do post images regularly, sometimes at the Gallery and sometimes at FYC.



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Jul 13, 2017 17:19:56   #
gdamant
 
I recently dumped Lightroom and all related products. I have been a photographer for many, many years and have used, and still do, many, many software products. It is my opinion that Lightroom
is a complete waste of time. I know that many of you use Lightroom, and constantly extoll the program. But I personally will never use Lightroom again.

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Jul 13, 2017 17:54:09   #
jccash Loc: Longwood, Florida
 
gdamant wrote:
I recently dumped Lightroom and all related products. I have been a photographer for many, many years and have used, and still do, many, many software products. It is my opinion that Lightroom
is a complete waste of time. I know that many of you use Lightroom, and constantly extoll the program. But I personally will never use Lightroom again.


What are you using?

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Jul 13, 2017 18:45:50   #
Bogin Bob Loc: Tampa Bay, Florida
 
jccash wrote:
What are you using?


Appropriate question needing an answer

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Jul 13, 2017 19:14:55   #
srt101fan
 
bullethole wrote:
While I love lightroom adobe's subscription model ticks me off. Any suggestions for alternatives which include the catalog and organization capabilities as well as the develop functions. I have no need for photoshop at this time as I can handle all my PP activities from LR develop moduoe


I've never used Lightroom so it may not be appropriate for me to comment. But as an alternative to the photo file management part of LR you might want to look at IMatch at photools.com. But you would need a separate post-processing program.

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