Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Republicans hate Obamacare but like most of what it does
Page <<first <prev 4 of 14 next> last>>
Jun 28, 2012 13:53:09   #
John 1813 Loc: Lancaster, NY
 
[quote=John 1813]
tschmath wrote:
Photo-Al wrote:
TimS wrote:
Frank T wrote:
<clip>

What about requiring people to buy a private product just because they happen to live in this country? Why should I be forced to buy a policy? What if I decided that I am in great health and it makes more financial sense for me to pay out of pocket the few times I get sick than to pay a monthly tax for a product I don't use? Why am I not allowed to make the decision on what's best for me? <clip>


Amen!!

Could we get people to sign a binding agreement that they agreed NEVER to get any serious and complicated illness that would require more funds than they had available? No one except the extremely wealthy could ever get cancer or other dread disease, because no one could make such an agreement. If someone who chose not to have coverage did get (for example) cancer and required years of treatment, the health care system could turn them away because they had no way to pay for it? You think that would happen? Don't misunderstand ... I don't wish that on anyone, but I see nothing wrong with requiring people to provide some level of cost coverage for them and their dependents instead of continuing to expect "the system" to provide it at no charge to them. Oooooo .... that almost sounds Republican! It's so confusing.

But doesn't matter, I guess. Supreme Court upheld the Act.
quote=Frank T <clip> br br What about requ... (show quote)


A thought just occurred to me. republicans rail ad nauseous about government deficit spending. OK, how about this: if you don't have health insurance, if you get sick, you can only get as much health care as you can pay for. If you're out of work and have a heart attack, you get a couple of aspirin. If you accidentally sever a finger, here's a band aid. If your 85-year old parent develops cancer, here's some aspirin for the pain. Is that what you really want? According to what I read here, I shouldn't have to pay for your parent's dementia care. He or she gets a blanket and a cardboard box because you can't afford the care she needs. Thank God for everyone that the SCOTUS just upheld all of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
quote=TimS quote=Frank T <clip> br br Wha... (show quote)
quote=Photo-Al quote=TimS quote=Frank T <cli... (show quote)


Amen

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 13:54:00   #
coco1964 Loc: Winsted Mn
 
TimS wrote:
Let me draw an analogy. Under the power that congress took under Obamacare, they could:

-Require that everyone providing photographic services be registered
-Require that all photogs waive any sitting fee for people with an income <75k/yr.
-Require that all clients be given a free 8"x10" photo of their choice.
-Stipulate what packages you could offer your clients and what you could charge for them.
-Require that all photographers provide, free of charge, family portraits to anyone who makes less than $75k/yr.
-Require that all photographers purchase a full frame camera
-Require all photographers who shoot action purchase a 400mm f/2.8 lens.
- In return, all photographers would be reimbursed a non-negotiable amount to be determined by the govt. the fees would come for a universal photographers fee that each person in the country would have to pay into. If someone dd not want to pay into the fee, they would be assessed a tax which would be used to offset the govt cost of running the program.

And so forth. One could make the case that having professional prints increases moral and family unity and is therefore enacted for the general welfare.
Let me draw an analogy. Under the power that congr... (show quote)
OK it's only noon here and you sound like you've already been in the Jack Daniels too long. Stick to the topic and stop making assanine analogys. You're an insult to everyone here except yourself who thinks he's the only one who understands the law and needs to spoon feed it to the rest of us. It is what it is and if Romney wins the election he stated Obamacare will be his first order of business to repeal. So since he threw that out there it will be up to the people to decide what stays and what goes. What is interesting and will surely be brought up in the debates (can't wait) is how Obamacare was based on the model Romney implimented as governor of Mass. but now is against it. One more of a multitude of 360s he has had in his career---should be interesting........

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 13:55:55   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
dawgtired wrote:
gym wrote:
I'm a Republican and I don't agree with ANYTHING in Obamacare. And the majority of Republicans agree with me.
This is a Washington Post article. That in itself explains it all.


This guy is the worst President we've had since Jimmy Carter. His administration is a joke. I cannot believe anyone would even consider re-electing him.


Are you saying you would vote for Rommni ? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Reply
 
 
Jun 28, 2012 14:07:25   #
bikinkawboy Loc: north central Missouri
 
Several posters have made very good arguments for both sides. Yes, our health care system has had problems that certainly needed fixing, of which the health care bill addressed. What sticks in my craw is the "if you don't have insurance, we're going to fine you" part. If you're filthy rich, you don't need insurance because you can pay for any medical care you need. And you can afford to pay the $5,000 fine for not having insurance. If you are dirt poor, disabled or just plain lazy white trash (like my oldest stepdaughter), you get your healthcare free of charge. If you are employed and your employer provides heath insurance, you're ok.

But how about the self employed smuck who makes too much money to be on welfare (or doesn't believe in milking the government) but not enough to pay 100% of a health insurance premium for their family which can easily run upwards of $20,000 a year? (And that's not just a guess or a figure I grabbed out of the air, my family and I would be $1,620/month or $19,440/year.) And since you can't afford to buy insurance, we (government) are going to fine you money you don't have! Oh wair, unless you are certain minorities like Muslim or Amish that don't believe in stuff like insurance. At least Amish pay cash for their health care and if a young couple can't, an elder will, something I also know for a fact (have Amish friends.) But if you are a Muslim, you can go right along with no insurance, pay no fines for not having insurance and demand free health care at a hospital, which ultimately the middle income working person is going to pay for either through higher health care costs or higher insurance premiums.

If the government is going to burden people with something, at least make it across the board rather than single out those they will financially rape and those that get a financial free ride.

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:18:55   #
RMM Loc: Suburban New York
 
dawgtired wrote:
RMM wrote:
dawgtired wrote:
This guy is the worst President we've had since Jimmy Carter. His administration is a joke. I cannot believe anyone would even consider re-electing him.

This comment from someone whose avatar is a baboon.


And this one from a guy that looks like he could use some health care that I'll wind up paying for.

Well, I appreciate it.

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:20:57   #
davejann Loc: Portland Oregon
 
[quote=Photo-Al]
TimS wrote:
Frank T wrote:
<clip>

What about requiring people to buy a private product just because they happen to live in this country? Why should I be forced to buy a policy? What if I decided that I am in great health and it makes more financial sense for me to pay out of pocket the few times I get sick than to pay a monthly tax for a product I don't use? Why am I not allowed to make the decision on what's best for me? <clip>


Could we get people to sign a binding agreement that they agreed NEVER to get any serious and complicated illness that would require more funds than they had available? No one except the extremely wealthy could ever get cancer or other dread disease, because no one could make such an agreement. If someone who chose not to have coverage did get (for example) cancer and required years of treatment, the health care system could turn them away because they had no way to pay for it? You think that would happen? Don't misunderstand ... I don't wish that on anyone, but I see nothing wrong with requiring people to provide some level of cost coverage for them and their dependents instead of continuing to expect "the system" to provide it at no charge to them. Oooooo .... that almost sounds Republican! It's so confusing.

But doesn't matter, I guess. Supreme Court upheld the Act.
quote=Frank T <clip> br br What about requ... (show quote)


I don't remember too much opposition to the laws that require motorists to carry insurance. I do remember the indignation expressed when an uninsured motorist causes damage.I guess it just depends on whose kid has the measles.

Dave

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:28:43   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
Several posters have made very good arguments for both sides. Yes, our health care system has had problems that certainly needed fixing, of which the health care bill addressed. What sticks in my craw is the "if you don't have insurance, we're going to fine you" part. If you're filthy rich, you don't need insurance because you can pay for any medical care you need. And you can afford to pay the $5,000 fine for not having insurance. If you are dirt poor, disabled or just plain lazy white trash (like my oldest stepdaughter), you get your healthcare free of charge. If you are employed and your employer provides heath insurance, you're ok.

But how about the self employed smuck who makes too much money to be on welfare (or doesn't believe in milking the government) but not enough to pay 100% of a health insurance premium for their family which can easily run upwards of $20,000 a year? (And that's not just a guess or a figure I grabbed out of the air, my family and I would be $1,620/month or $19,440/year.) And since you can't afford to buy insurance, we (government) are going to fine you money you don't have! Oh wair, unless you are certain minorities like Muslim or Amish that don't believe in stuff like insurance. At least Amish pay cash for their health care and if a young couple can't, an elder will, something I also know for a fact (have Amish friends.) But if you are a Muslim, you can go right along with no insurance, pay no fines for not having insurance and demand free health care at a hospital, which ultimately the middle income working person is going to pay for either through higher health care costs or higher insurance premiums.

If the government is going to burden people with something, at least make it across the board rather than single out those they will financially rape and those that get a financial free ride.
Several posters have made very good arguments for ... (show quote)


Easy Guy, the subject of the fine you seem to fear has been settled, if there would be a fine it would be assumed uncollectable so therefore no fine.

Reply
 
 
Jun 28, 2012 14:29:05   #
tkhphotography Loc: Gresham, Or, not Seattle
 
BigBear wrote:
I'm independent and don't like any part of it. Mostly because the government is involved as they have to business being there and forcing me to be part of it.
And as far as Obama goes, that's another agenda to rid us of him.


We can now assume that you are not a vet taking part of Veteran's health insurance through the VA. If you are not, I wonder how your thinking would shape up different had you'd been one,if at all? And if you are a vet, can we conclude that you have never used the VA for its medical facilities, knowing "they have to (sic) business being there and forcing me to be a part of it."?

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:40:38   #
RMM Loc: Suburban New York
 
coco1964 wrote:
What is interesting and will surely be brought up in the debates (can't wait) is how Obamacare was based on the model Romney implimented as governor of Mass. but now is against it. One more of a multitude of 360s he has had in his career---should be interesting........

Hate to correct your math, but the multitude was of 180s, not 360s. Well, maybe that, too. Seems to me he's been on every side of every issue, it just depends on the audience. Or the check writer.

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:40:51   #
charlie Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
 
TimS wrote:
Frank T wrote:
This article hits the nail on the head. I think if it wasn't that they disliked the President so much this would have been supported on both sides of the aisle.
The other untold story is that the real winners on the Affordable Care Act are the Insurance Companies who stand to make a fortune through the mandate.
But, after all is said and done today will be the day that the Supreme Court announces their decision on the case so let's see where they land.
After yesterdays decision on striking down most of the Arizona law there may actually be some hope for them doing the right thing and saving this law.
This article hits the nail on the head. I think i... (show quote)


First, I'm not a repub I'm a libertarian which means I believe the govt should do what they are allowed to do in the us. Constitution. Nothing more or less.

I do not like the bill as a whole but agree with some of what is in it. For example, I don't believe insurance cos should be allowed to cancel someone if they get sick. But I don't see the authority of the fed govt to make such a law so I disagree with that provision of federal law. States can make such a law and I would not be against them. But making such law is not consistent with article I section 8. I would dare say none of the bill is consistent with that section. By the 10th amendment, states can do that though.

The prob is that because of our two party system, the other side will grandstand with speeches in congress but still vote to find it. We've seen that since the 1800s. The iraq war....Dems initially supported it but then gave speeches on the floor about how much they hated it but still voted for the spending bills that paid for it. The Repubs do the same thing. Wake up and realize that regardless of whether YOU consider yourself a dem or repub or the people you vote for, they will do what they want to keep themselves in power. If that means grandstanding to make a point then so be it. Spare me the rhetoric.

But back to the poll. Did they ask questions on the more controversial parts or just the parts that most people would favor? What about forcing insurance cos to sell a product at a price the govt approves? Think birth control. That was a clear payback to the various ultra liberal feminist groups.

What about requiring people to buy a private product just because they happen to live in this country? Why should I be forced to buy a policy? What if I decided that I am in great health and it makes more financial sense for me to pay out of pocket the few times I get sick than to pay a monthly tax for a product I don't use? Why am I not allowed to make the decision on what's best for me? What if I don't want the govt to control when or where I can get healthcare or what type of care I can get? The fed govt is by and large a corrupt and inept organization that couldn't do anything efficiently if it tried. Why would I want to trust my healthcare to a group such as that? And then there's the cost. And then there's the slippery slope where the govt can now control every aspect of my life because they "have to" pay for my healthcare. Are they going to mOnitor my caloric intake and fine me if it exceeds some arbitrary threshold or if my exercise does not exceed a certain threshold?

I simply do not want the govt to have ANY hand in healthcare at ANY level.

By and large, conservatives don't hate Obama - the person - They hate his policies. That is a key point that escapes many liberals because they are either too dumb to know the difference or just choose to ignore it.
quote=Frank T This article hits the nail on the h... (show quote)


I applaud your reasoning. Obama is a nice person, he's just not presidential material. He tries, he fails. One and Done is the only answer.

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:45:33   #
TimS Loc: GA
 
[quote=davejann]
Photo-Al wrote:
TimS wrote:
Frank T wrote:
<clip>

What about requiring people to buy a private product just because they happen to live in this country? Why should I be forced to buy a policy? What if I decided that I am in great health and it makes more financial sense for me to pay out of pocket the few times I get sick than to pay a monthly tax for a product I don't use? Why am I not allowed to make the decision on what's best for me? <clip>


Could we get people to sign a binding agreement that they agreed NEVER to get any serious and complicated illness that would require more funds than they had available? No one except the extremely wealthy could ever get cancer or other dread disease, because no one could make such an agreement. If someone who chose not to have coverage did get (for example) cancer and required years of treatment, the health care system could turn them away because they had no way to pay for it? You think that would happen? Don't misunderstand ... I don't wish that on anyone, but I see nothing wrong with requiring people to provide some level of cost coverage for them and their dependents instead of continuing to expect "the system" to provide it at no charge to them. Oooooo .... that almost sounds Republican! It's so confusing.

But doesn't matter, I guess. Supreme Court upheld the Act.
quote=Frank T <clip> br br What about requ... (show quote)


I don't remember too much opposition to the laws that require motorists to carry insurance. I do remember the indignation expressed when an uninsured motorist causes damage.I guess it just depends on whose kid has the measles.

Dave
quote=TimS quote=Frank T <clip> br br Wha... (show quote)


Apples to oranges. First and foremost, the STATES require car insurance. Second, not everybody is required to carry insurance just because you live and breathe in the state. Car insurance is required because you can ram into me and cause me severe financial hardship if you can't pay for the damages you inflicted on me. Its hard for me to injure you if I fall down and break my arm and need emergency medical care.

Reply
 
 
Jun 28, 2012 14:47:57   #
RMM Loc: Suburban New York
 
TimS wrote:
Apples to oranges. First and foremost, the STATES require car insurance. Second, not everybody is required to carry insurance just because you live and breathe in the state. Car insurance is required because you can ram into me and cause me severe financial hardship if you can't pay for the damages you inflicted on me. Its hard for me to injure you if I fall down and break my arm and need emergency medical care.

If my health care costs go up because you couldn't pay to get your arm set, you HAVE injured me.

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:48:41   #
TimS Loc: GA
 
RMM wrote:
coco1964 wrote:
What is interesting and will surely be brought up in the debates (can't wait) is how Obamacare was based on the model Romney implimented as governor of Mass. but now is against it. One more of a multitude of 360s he has had in his career---should be interesting........

Hate to correct your math, but the multitude was of 180s, not 360s. Well, maybe that, too. Seems to me he's been on every side of every issue, it just depends on the audience. Or the check writer.


The us constitution does not enumerate the power to regulate healthcare to the congress. The SCOTUS only looked at 2 aspects only the law, not the entire thing. The 10th amendment therefore says that the states can regulate health care. Therefore, one can be FOR state run healthcare but against FEDERAL run healthcare.

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:52:06   #
davejann Loc: Portland Oregon
 
[quote=TimS]
davejann wrote:
Photo-Al wrote:
TimS wrote:
Frank T wrote:
<clip>

What about requiring people to buy a private product just because they happen to live in this country? Why should I be forced to buy a policy? What if I decided that I am in great health and it makes more financial sense for me to pay out of pocket the few times I get sick than to pay a monthly tax for a product I don't use? Why am I not allowed to make the decision on what's best for me? <clip>


Could we get people to sign a binding agreement that they agreed NEVER to get any serious and complicated illness that would require more funds than they had available? No one except the extremely wealthy could ever get cancer or other dread disease, because no one could make such an agreement. If someone who chose not to have coverage did get (for example) cancer and required years of treatment, the health care system could turn them away because they had no way to pay for it? You think that would happen? Don't misunderstand ... I don't wish that on anyone, but I see nothing wrong with requiring people to provide some level of cost coverage for them and their dependents instead of continuing to expect "the system" to provide it at no charge to them. Oooooo .... that almost sounds Republican! It's so confusing.

But doesn't matter, I guess. Supreme Court upheld the Act.
quote=Frank T <clip> br br What about requ... (show quote)


I don't remember too much opposition to the laws that require motorists to carry insurance. I do remember the indignation expressed when an uninsured motorist causes damage.I guess it just depends on whose kid has the measles.

Dave
quote=TimS quote=Frank T <clip> br br Wha... (show quote)


Apples to oranges. First and foremost, the STATES require car insurance. Second, not everybody is required to carry insurance just because you live and breathe in the state. Car insurance is required because you can ram into me and cause me severe financial hardship if you can't pay for the damages you inflicted on me. Its hard for me to injure you if I fall down and break my arm and need emergency medical care.
quote=Photo-Al quote=TimS quote=Frank T <cli... (show quote)


Tim,

Actually, much the same just not as glaringly obvious. If I don't by health insurance so I can buy booze and then fall and break an arm, you will indirectly end up paying for my care in the end. More absorption of "free" care will be reflected in the health care industry charging more for care to those who can pay. Just another breed of apple. Dave

Reply
Jun 28, 2012 14:54:13   #
RMM Loc: Suburban New York
 
TimS wrote:
The us constitution does not enumerate the power to regulate healthcare to the congress. The SCOTUS only looked at 2 aspects only the law, not the entire thing. The 10th amendment therefore says that the states can regulate health care. Therefore, one can be FOR state run healthcare but against FEDERAL run healthcare.

There's a whole lot of things not enumerated in the Constitution. There isn't room, and no one could have anticipated every contingency. That's why the Constitution says Congress can write legislation and the Executive has to approve it, or Congress can override the veto. Personally, I think Congress did a bad job writing the law, because instead of relying so heavily on the Commerce clause, they should have imposed a tax, just as they do with Social Security and Medicare, and offered offsetting credits up to the taxable amount on private insurance. Want to buy your own? Or supplement what the government would provide? Feel free. And the tax should have been on all forms of income, up to whatever upper limits were set.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 4 of 14 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.