lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

My bad. I should have been replying to FlyingTiger who had quoted you.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

As far as the money thing goes what I was referring to what is currently happening on a daily basis with liberals in charge. Endorsing homosexuality, abortions with my money and I am emphatically opposed to it.
did you have trouble understanding what I read. I said after all of the others things have been tried and they do not work. The what.

GMCJim Loc: York Haven Pa

I won't comment on torture I have no experience on either side BUT we are seeing evidence that corporal punishment is a necessity​! We are entering the second generation of children raised with no corporal punishment in school and discouraged at home. Compare the youth of today with those of us raised when punishment was swift and sure. Out generation didn't riot because we disliked cops, or the new president, or the fact that we were different. In point of fact those protesting the Viet Nam war did so peacefully with sit in. There was respect something that is sorely lacking today.

lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

I won't comment on your beliefs about what is happening with "liberals in charge", but your use of the English language is unintelligible. What is "The what" supposed to mean?

lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

I disagree on all counts. Do not confuse "cause" with "correlation". Many things have changed since the Vietnam era (that you seem to recall fondly as a time of discipline in school, and orderly sit-ins) and you should not assume that "no corporal punishment in school (probably supportable by fact) and discouragement at home (I question whether this is even true)" have caused the behavior you dislike today.

I can, with certainty, tell you that your recollection that those protesting the Viet Nam War did so peacefully is a false memory. Do a bit of research on the SDS, the Weathermen, and the Black Panthers who were all, to varying degrees, involved with violence. The Chicago Police would like to recall the 1968 Democrat Convention as protestors rioting in the streets (although I recall it as more of a Police over reaction).

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Sorry I usually reread what I post before I send to avoid typo errors, but this time I failed to do so because my wife was nagging at me to go to lunch. It was supposed to read "then what?"
I did not discipline my children with torture and I do not consider physical punishment as torture but some parents, I have heard, do torture their children. But none that I know personally. There is torture and then there is physical disciplining of the children. They are a completely different animal. Now some would argue with that and that is their beliefs. But by my observation they are raising spoilt children.

lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

Wives, especially mine of nearly 47 years always come first.

I was a pretty good kid. My two strongest memories of being disciplined involved my mother getting so angry at me that she hit me with a vacuum cleaner hose, and me picking up some pencils (innocently) at a office desk display in a department store and being required to return them and apologize for what my parents defined as "theft". For whatever it is worth, I recall all the details of the department store incident and only the violent details of the vacuum cleaner beating. My interpretation is that I learned a lesson, from my parent's annoyance and the consequence they imposed, about taking things without permission; and that I learned essentially nothing (other than I didn't like the feeling of being hit by a vacuum cleaner hose) about why I deserved that punishment.
I raised my hand to my son, when he was a child, only one time. The expression of emotional hurt in his eyes was enough for me to never do it again.
My two "perfect" grandchildren have never been disciplined with corporal punishment. The boy is a sensitive 10 year old and I suspect he would be beyond shocked to be struck by a parent. The girl is a feisty 6 year old who sometimes tempts physical interaction. That said, they are polite, well mannered, well behaved children with a very high sense of what is right and wrong. I am sometimes amazed at how well a few well chosen words from my son or daughter-in-law achieve desired results.
Of course, my personal memories and current experiences do not apply to "all children"; but I have come to the conclusion that using size and strength is not the best way to get a child to do what you want. Besides, we have a deal: I won't strike them when they are young, and they won't hit me when I become (even) older.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Whether you learned the lesson or not, I believe your mother's intent was to teach you respect for things that are not yours. And this should be standard procedure. We now live in society where violence rules, demonstrations, riots, destruction of property, looting. And talking seems to do little to prevent further provocations. I do not like violence nor to I condone it. But I feel that talking is like talking to a dead horse. A joke about a stubborn mule. Two men were sitting on a buckboard and trying to get the mule to obey. The team driver got tired of the obstinate mule and hopped down and hit the mule right over the head right between the ears. Climbing back onto the buckboard the other man inquired why did you do that? Sometime you have to get their attention first.

Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles

Muslims use torture, not for getting informatiion, but as a means of terrifying the infidels.

lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

You are correct. Learning respect, both for things that were not mine to take, and for my parents was the lesson of my story. I wouldn't be so bold to say that verbal disapproval works for everyone; but the point of my story was that being beaten taught me nothing more than to fear my, at the time, larger and more powerful mother. Parents should (I am not saying they do) act out of love for and demand respect from their children. Society should do what is necessary to first punish and then attempt to rehabilitate those who break the rules.

Mules are not humans.

lesdmd Loc: Middleton Wi via N.Y.C. & Cleveland

Yes, but children are certainly not infidels.

jamer Loc: PA

We also, let me remind you, we learn by observation. Look at the parents of today with respect to language, and appearance. Monkey see monkey do. Respect is taught at home and by example. I do not see that in the homes of today.

FRENCHY Loc: Stone Mountain , Ga

Exactly !! Thanks

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I think it was Al Capone who said one can get more with a kind word and a gun than they can with just a kind word.
--Bob

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Definitely, a parent should give as much love as is possible in raising their children but I have found that to be a good parent you cannot be a buddy to your children. Buddies do not correct their children to do what is right. Depending on your children's friends. We many years ago moved from Vegas to where we presently live. Doing so we required a new physician. His first words to us was, and this may be the greatest choice of word that I have ever received. "Make sure your children make good friends".
I do not personally rule out corporal punishment, torture, if there is nothing else that will work to save innocent lives. Many are devoted to causes rather than being dedicated to principles. And they do not know the difference either. Do you honestly think that a good talk to those judges on the 9th circuit will change their minds. And your decision on this should not be based upon whether or not you agree with them. I would not vote for Capone, Hitler or other nefarious character because I know the outcome before and talking to them will not change them.
And in case any who read this think the physical contact is a from of abuse. Let us outlaw, boxing, all ball sports, baseball, football, soccer, basketball because there is physical contact. Of these one might suggest the football leads the charge as being the most torture oriented. To me digging a trench to lay a sprinkler pipe is torture but is a part of life. Working in Temps over 100 down in the dirt and sometimes muck is absolutely gut wrenching. In college studying all night for those exams was a form of torture.
There are many forms of torture depending upon your point of view. Some are worse than others. Life is hard and was not meant to be easy.