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Election Fraud 2000
Jun 25, 2012 11:08:58 #
TimS wrote:
I'm really not sure what the ban on photographing caskets has to do with either the 2000 election or Obama.
It doesn't, Tim. It's simply some past poor loosers still crying about how their poor choice lost the race. You hear this from loosers of something all the time.
Jun 25, 2012 11:15:50 #
TimS wrote:
quote=PNagy quote=ngc1514 What Constitutional pr... (show quote)
It is difficult to answer such a post without invective, but I shall try. "Get over it" hardly is a useful way of dealing with injustice. It is a tired cliché borrowed from the corporate media. If the standard had any general applicability it might as well have been applied to the crimes of the Third Reich, or any other atrocity in history.
Analysis does serve more than one legitimate purpose. Interest in history and intellectual curiosity in general compels some of us, perhaps not you, to analyze events to try to understand them. A sense of justice drives us to use the experiences of the past as a springboard to a better present and future.
What difference it would have made? I grant you that since both candidates were bankrolled by self-serving corporations, in many ways, not much. On the other hand, it is difficult to see Gore capitulating to the plutocratic demand to reduce their taxes to the point of causing $700 billion of the annual federal deficit. Gore also would not have forged evidence to justify a war on Iraq, but contented himself with the Clinton policy of keeping Iraq under our control through periodic bombing and constant ruinous economic sanctions.
If you still insist that there was nothing wrong with the Supreme Court decision Bush v Gore, then please read the decision as well as the 14th Amendment. Then explain to us how a fair recount could possibly interfere with the right to equal protection of the law. What it interfered with is Bush's theft of the presidency, and that is not guaranteed in the Constitution.
Jun 25, 2012 11:56:12 #
The Fox News Bubble is very powerful!People are brainwashed and can't see the truth!We were losing 700-800 thousand jobs a month and the dow was at 8000 at the end of GWB career. The dow is now over 12000 and we are creating jobs in spite of filibusters by the tea-party,yet some can't handle a black man doing a way better job than GWB. SAD! Racism is alive and well in the GOP.
Jun 25, 2012 12:03:18 #
Reddog wrote:
The Fox News Bubble is very powerful!People are brainwashed and can't see the truth!We were losing 700-800 thousand jobs a month and the dow was at 8000 at the end of GWB career. The dow is now over 12000 and we are creating jobs in spite of filibusters by the tea-party,yet some can't handle a black man doing a way better job than GWB. SAD! Racism is alive and well in the GOP.
Greg Palast called the racist Floridian voter scrubbing initiative of 2000 "Jim Crow in Cyberspace."
Jun 25, 2012 12:06:20 #
I was Republican for over 30 yrs, I just can't be part of what they have become!
Jun 25, 2012 12:09:01 #
bikinkawboy
Loc: north central Missouri
As TimS said, this is an issue 12 years in the past. Beating that dead horse isn't going to change anything. As for the Florida votes, remember all of the "hanging chads", "pregnant chads" and all that stuff? And counters of the recount feeling for slight bumps and even using magnifying glasses to try to find a slight bump that would indicate the voter had intended to punch that one? Or at least intended in the eyes of the recounter?
Just my opinion, but I figure if you aren't smart enough to know how to punch a card, then you aren't smart enough to be making the decision of who should be president.
As for military absentee ballots, in the past those in the military didn't even have the right to vote because the president is commander in chief and they figured there would be too much bias. My dad (during WWII) didn't get to vote again until he was discharged from the Army. When he enlisted, he lost his right to vote, when he got out five years later (never having been able to come home even once) he could vote again. And some think the failure to count late submitted military votes is a tragedy. Yeah sure.
Just my opinion, but I figure if you aren't smart enough to know how to punch a card, then you aren't smart enough to be making the decision of who should be president.
As for military absentee ballots, in the past those in the military didn't even have the right to vote because the president is commander in chief and they figured there would be too much bias. My dad (during WWII) didn't get to vote again until he was discharged from the Army. When he enlisted, he lost his right to vote, when he got out five years later (never having been able to come home even once) he could vote again. And some think the failure to count late submitted military votes is a tragedy. Yeah sure.
Jun 25, 2012 12:20:24 #
TimS
Loc: GA
It wasn't a fair recount. It was people looking at a ballot and trying to decipher what that person was thinking when they cast their ballot. In many cases it was not clear and, yet, they would still give the vote to Bush or Gore. Sometimes that was based on other, more clear votes on the ballot. For example, if they voted for Repubs on many other races then try have a vote to bush and similarly with Gore/Dems.
After every election, there are always reports of fraud which go largely ignored. Dead people voting, illegal immigrants (we know there are no illegal immigrants that voted in FL..... Rrrrriiiiiiggggghhhhtttt?)
If someone focuses just on one type of alleged fraud I'm sure they can skew their results one way based on their predetermined conclusion. The simple fact of the matter is there is NO way to quantify all voting irregularities and scientifically deduce the 'real' winner. What we are left with is what we have. An imperfect system but one that has served out country well. Well continue to get better but it will never be perfect.
I read the supreme court decision previously and totally agreed with it. By the way, I seem to remember that a 'media recount' was done the following year and determined that using the guidelines established to recount the ballots, Gore still would have lost. There were one or two implausible scenarios under which Gore would've won but not under the rules that gore fought to be implemented.
At the end of the day, the nation requires a president and the constitution requires that president to take office on a particular day. Because of that, a presidential election can drag on but only so long. It must cease at some point or we risk damaging the entire country.
So bottom line, unless you have data showing ALL forms of voting irregularities and can account for every one of them, your argument over just one will continue to fall on deaf ears. Most people just are not interested in your kook George Noory conspiracy theory nut jobs.
Have a pleasant day!
After every election, there are always reports of fraud which go largely ignored. Dead people voting, illegal immigrants (we know there are no illegal immigrants that voted in FL..... Rrrrriiiiiiggggghhhhtttt?)
If someone focuses just on one type of alleged fraud I'm sure they can skew their results one way based on their predetermined conclusion. The simple fact of the matter is there is NO way to quantify all voting irregularities and scientifically deduce the 'real' winner. What we are left with is what we have. An imperfect system but one that has served out country well. Well continue to get better but it will never be perfect.
I read the supreme court decision previously and totally agreed with it. By the way, I seem to remember that a 'media recount' was done the following year and determined that using the guidelines established to recount the ballots, Gore still would have lost. There were one or two implausible scenarios under which Gore would've won but not under the rules that gore fought to be implemented.
At the end of the day, the nation requires a president and the constitution requires that president to take office on a particular day. Because of that, a presidential election can drag on but only so long. It must cease at some point or we risk damaging the entire country.
So bottom line, unless you have data showing ALL forms of voting irregularities and can account for every one of them, your argument over just one will continue to fall on deaf ears. Most people just are not interested in your kook George Noory conspiracy theory nut jobs.
Have a pleasant day!
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Jun 25, 2012 12:22:30 #
TimS
Loc: GA
Reddog wrote:
The Fox News Bubble is very powerful!People are brainwashed and can't see the truth!We were losing 700-800 thousand jobs a month and the dow was at 8000 at the end of GWB career. The dow is now over 12000 and we are creating jobs in spite of filibusters by the tea-party,yet some can't handle a black man doing a way better job than GWB. SAD! Racism is alive and well in the GOP.
Perhaps conservatives don't like Obama for his policies and not his race. Did that simple thought ever make a cameo appearance in your mind? Perhaps I don't like socialists regardless of their skin color.
Jun 25, 2012 12:23:53 #
"Martin, I don't believe that after our Civil War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, any real American citizen remains ignorant of any war's "tragic consequences" as you claim."
Being aware of war's tragic consequences via newscasts, flag wavers, or war bond rallies is one variety of awareness. Seeing stacks of corpses, or people bleeding from wounds is another variety. Visiting an evacuation hospital is yet another. More than that, there's the audio accompaniment of shells flying overhead and exploding near by that makes war highly suspect as a rational pursuit.
Why any man who's been to one war would want to attend another escapes me.
Granting that war can be an ugly necessity for self-defense does not make it an enviable pursuit--no matter what you might say or think.
All the best,
Martin
Being aware of war's tragic consequences via newscasts, flag wavers, or war bond rallies is one variety of awareness. Seeing stacks of corpses, or people bleeding from wounds is another variety. Visiting an evacuation hospital is yet another. More than that, there's the audio accompaniment of shells flying overhead and exploding near by that makes war highly suspect as a rational pursuit.
Why any man who's been to one war would want to attend another escapes me.
Granting that war can be an ugly necessity for self-defense does not make it an enviable pursuit--no matter what you might say or think.
All the best,
Martin
Jun 25, 2012 12:25:02 #
Jun 25, 2012 12:28:06 #
Even Fox news has overused socialist now they have gone to marxist, I guess they know their viewers don't understand that either.Turn of Fox and think for yourself, its not that hard!
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Jun 25, 2012 12:28:12 #
"It wasn't a fair recount. It was people looking at a ballot and trying to decipher what that person was thinking when they cast their ballot."
This is categorically untrue. Katherine Harris had put different weight punch card ballots into areas that were poor, traditionally Democratic voters. When the ballot failed to punch through all the way, the Republicans ordered them to be thrown away. Indeed, it is easy to read the intention of the voter. The ballot manifests a warping called a "dimple."
This is categorically untrue. Katherine Harris had put different weight punch card ballots into areas that were poor, traditionally Democratic voters. When the ballot failed to punch through all the way, the Republicans ordered them to be thrown away. Indeed, it is easy to read the intention of the voter. The ballot manifests a warping called a "dimple."
Jun 25, 2012 12:30:40 #
"If someone focuses just on one type of alleged fraud I'm sure they can skew their results one way based on their predetermined conclusion. The simple fact of the matter is there is NO way to quantify all voting irregularities and scientifically deduce the 'real' winner. What we are left with is what we have. An imperfect system but one that has served out country well. Well continue to get better but it will never be perfect."
More nonsense. It is possible to quantify policies that skew the results in favor of a candidate or against another. The imperfections that took the 2000 election were not due to lack of perfection, but to deliberate policies calculated to reject votes cast for the Democrats.
More nonsense. It is possible to quantify policies that skew the results in favor of a candidate or against another. The imperfections that took the 2000 election were not due to lack of perfection, but to deliberate policies calculated to reject votes cast for the Democrats.
Jun 25, 2012 12:32:18 #
"I read the supreme court decision previously and totally agreed with it."
If that is the case, perhaps you are able to do something the majority opinion could not achieve; explain why a lawful recount was a violation of the 14th Amendment rights of one of the candidates, but not the other.
If that is the case, perhaps you are able to do something the majority opinion could not achieve; explain why a lawful recount was a violation of the 14th Amendment rights of one of the candidates, but not the other.
Jun 25, 2012 12:33:14 #
"I seem to remember that a 'media recount' was done the following year and determined that using the guidelines established to recount the ballots, Gore still would have lost. There were one or two implausible scenarios under which Gore would've won but not under the rules that gore fought to be implemented."
That must have been the Fox News recount analysis.
That must have been the Fox News recount analysis.
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