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Help finding the right ultra wide lens
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Feb 20, 2017 12:11:24   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
chapin in utah wrote:
Hi folks.
Its been a while since I posted here.
But I need expert opinions about what lens should I rent or possibly buy.
I shoot with a nikon D7000, and usually I am carring a 18-200 vrll lens with me.
But soon i will be traveling to escalante petrified state park, kanarraville canyon hiking, and zions nat park, including angels landing hike there.

So. Lots of great landscapes, and since my nikon is crop sensor I am already loosing something of my 18-200 lens. (Like 24-300) Not to mention is a little on the heavy side.

I have been thinking of renting a tokina 11-16 but I have no previous experience with ultra wide lens, and I dont want fish eye effect if its possible.
What you guys recommend for my nikon 7000?
Hi folks. br Its been a while since I posted here.... (show quote)


Rent that lens and see how you like it. It will be much lighter than the other lens and it will be wider to get those good landscapes. But it may not be long enough when needed so bring another lens with you too. At least something that can reach 100mm.

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Feb 20, 2017 13:10:57   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
When I was a Canon Rebel user, I had a Sigma 10-20. That is the one lens I missed when I switched to Pentax, but I was able to get the K-mount version.

My use is different from the OP's, because my primary need is use in museums. However, based on my experience I'm not sure that distortion will be so overt that much correction will be needed, but if distortion is a major concern, then a Nikon lens might be best because I expect already provided correction to be best for within-brand combinations.

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Feb 20, 2017 13:38:44   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
I rarely opt for ultra-wide. Photomerge (panorama) is very versatile, better suited to big enlargements, and not at all difficult. Admittedly it is more cumbersome, but some of my enlargements are 42" by 13'. The don't pixelate, and they tolerate examination from close range.

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Feb 20, 2017 14:22:29   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
dynaquest1 wrote:
Gene: both of those images are crazy good! My question is that they must be HDR (way to much dynamic range for single exposures) and for each overlapping image, how many exposures did you take? If,say, 5, that would be a lot of exposures and a lot of work for each image.

Thanks!


Thanks!

No HDR - just careful exposure and post processing, and using a D800 which has pretty wide dyamic range to begin with.

As far as a lot of work - I stitched them in Lightroom - I selected the 4 or 5 images - 2 secs. Right clicked on one in the selection, revealing the fly out menu and the choice to Photo Merge to Pano. another 2-seconds. Press enter - wait about 10 secs for LR to generate the preview - select the projection you want to use - presss enter - that took another 8-10 secs. Then wait for the pano to be stitched - depending on the image, it can take another 10 secs with 5 images. When it is done, I have a single dng file to continue editing as a raw file, then do some finish editing in Photoshop. Start to finish - for what I posted, which were minimally processed - shadows and highlights, sharpening, color temp, a little cropping, microcontrast adjustment to bring out better clarity, etc was probably less than 5 minutes total.

I've done double row panos that used 16 images, and they took only about a 90 secs to stitch.

This is why I suggest the pano over ultra wide for landscape. Ultrawides have their place, usually in close quarters and when you can crop out the left and right sides and use only the center, un-deformed center of the image. Volume deformation, or if you look at DXO's website, they used to call it volume anamorphosis - is very hard to correct for.

DXO Viewpoint is very good at this but it is not perfect.

http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/community/tutorials/correcting-volume-deformation-dxo-viewpoint

Ultra wide lenses are very specialized tools, generally misunderstood and misused. And generally overused, when better alternatives, at least as far as image quality is concerned, exist.

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Feb 20, 2017 14:24:13   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Bobspez wrote:
Hi Gene, for some reason the two panos I thought I attached didn't attach, but you make the case better than I did. A great point is that the pano with the longer focal length captures detail an ultra wide angle lens does not. I've found that while foreground objects appear large and sharp, background objects appear small and soft. I think the wide lenses are more suited for group shots, and interiors than they are for landscapes.

On the other hand, that may be an effect that is desired, a vast landscape that rolls out to a soft, indistinct, eternity.
Hi Gene, for some reason the two panos I thought I... (show quote)


I couldn't agree more, especially on the creative intent part.

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Feb 20, 2017 14:43:27   #
ecurb1105
 
I have to endorse the Tokina 11-16 f2.8. I use one on my D90. Use it on a tripod and level the camera to avoid rectilinear distortion. Have fun!

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Feb 20, 2017 16:17:03   #
bpulv Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
Hi Chapin,

I have owned a Nikkor 10-24mm DX lens for almost two years now and I use it extensively when I travel for both landscapes and building interiors. It has become the second most used lens in my collection. It is very sharp and, using both the camera's internal firmware and the lens profile in Lightroom and Photoshop, it produces extremely sharp and linear photographs. I usually carry two cameras, a D90 and D800. Although I usually keep it on my D90 and my 24-70mm f2.8 on my D800, I have also used it on the D800 and it performs well there too. At 10mm, the lens gives a 100 degree angle of view and it does not display any of the distortion that is associated with a fisheye lens at a similar focal length. The lens allows me to capture unbelievable seascapes and, when we take tours in foreign countries, its extreme wide angle allows me to capture the full scope of both small and large rooms by standing in a corner. It also yields super results when photographing details such as fresco ceilings. It is a lens I would not be without.

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Feb 20, 2017 20:01:19   #
racerrich3 Loc: Los Angeles, Ca.
 
<chapin in Utah> I agree with wayne. you mentioned the Tokina 11-16, but go for the 11-20 instead. I like to be over (18-20 overlap) than under (16-18). I heard that lens is really good with the Nikon any model. i'm getting one later this year as I just got the 200-500. I have the D3300.

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Feb 21, 2017 02:59:46   #
Mark1948
 
You might want to look at Sigma's 8-16. Love mine.

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Feb 21, 2017 13:39:00   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
Gene51 wrote:
Thanks!

No HDR - just careful exposure and post processing, and using a D800 which has pretty wide dyamic range to begin with.

As far as a lot of work - I stitched them in Lightroom - I selected the 4 or 5 images - 2 secs. Right clicked on one in the selection, revealing the fly out menu and the choice to Photo Merge to Pano. another 2-seconds. Press enter - wait about 10 secs for LR to generate the preview - select the projection you want to use - presss enter - that took another 8-10 secs. Then wait for the pano to be stitched - depending on the image, it can take another 10 secs with 5 images. When it is done, I have a single dng file to continue editing as a raw file, then do some finish editing in Photoshop. Start to finish - for what I posted, which were minimally processed - shadows and highlights, sharpening, color temp, a little cropping, microcontrast adjustment to bring out better clarity, etc was probably less than 5 minutes total.

I've done double row panos that used 16 images, and they took only about a 90 secs to stitch.

This is why I suggest the pano over ultra wide for landscape. Ultrawides have their place, usually in close quarters and when you can crop out the left and right sides and use only the center, un-deformed center of the image. Volume deformation, or if you look at DXO's website, they used to call it volume anamorphosis - is very hard to correct for.

DXO Viewpoint is very good at this but it is not perfect.

http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/community/tutorials/correcting-volume-deformation-dxo-viewpoint

Ultra wide lenses are very specialized tools, generally misunderstood and misused. And generally overused, when better alternatives, at least as far as image quality is concerned, exist.
Thanks! br br No HDR - just careful exposure and ... (show quote)

Hi Gene, I've got a question about shooting panos. Do you always take them with the camera in one spot, and rotating it? I think I heard somewhere that you can also move the camera and tripod, but not sure that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks
Susan

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Feb 21, 2017 13:45:01   #
Jim Bob
 
Gene51 wrote:
You probably already have what you need. You just need to explore a better way to use it.

Ultra wide lenses have a very disconcerting and severe "extension distortion" that manifests itself by making things that are in the foreground appear HUGE and things in the distance appear very tiny. It's ok for the occasional pic for a dramatic effect, but to go on a trip and take vista after vista with a really wide lens I think would be a mistake.

Think about the landscape masters - who only painted what they saw. They did not have wide angle lenses - only their eyes. If they wanted to "take in" a wider view - they turned their heads. Their "perspective" did not change, nor did any one of them use a point of view that resembled an ultra wide lens.

In camera terms, the equivalent of turning your head would be to turn the camera - in order to get a wider view. Shoot with the camera in portrait orientation, and overlap each shot 50% with the previous one, to get a better stitch in post processing. Use Lightroom, Photoshop, Panotools, Hugin, or any one of a number of very decent pano stitching tools to make it happen.

I typically use a 45mm lens or longer on a full frame camera to do my landscape panos, even though I have a 14-24 which at the wide end has a field of view equivalent to a 9.33 mm lens on a crop camera. I looked through my catalog and found that I used it about 2% of the time for landscapes. My most used lens is a 45, followed by my 85, 80-200, and 100-300. I have even used a 600mm lens for landscapes. The slight to moderate compression distortion is more "natural" than the extension distortion of a wide or ultra wide lens. Our perception is better at compressing than extending.

The first image was done with a 100mm lens, 4 overlapping shots.

The second was done with a 45mm lens, 5 overlapping shots.

As you can see, the resulting image is quite high resolution. The ones posted here are downsized for posting, but I did add the original dimensions in pixels to the label for each. I usually use a tripod, but when I don't have one I have done panos hand-held with great results.
You probably already have what you need. You just ... (show quote)


Magnificent!

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Feb 21, 2017 21:45:04   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
SusanFromVermont wrote:
Hi Gene, I've got a question about shooting panos. Do you always take them with the camera in one spot, and rotating it? I think I heard somewhere that you can also move the camera and tripod, but not sure that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks
Susan


I have "played" with doing them handheld, but I find them much better when done on a tripod with a proper head. I really need to get out more to do this and get much better at it, but I find the learning process just as, if not more, enjoyable. YMMV!

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Feb 21, 2017 22:57:30   #
Erik_H Loc: Denham Springs, Louisiana
 
par4fore wrote:
Tokina 11-16, Just do it, you will be happy.

+1
I shoot my D7000 with the 11-16 and get great results.

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Feb 22, 2017 06:12:11   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Jim Bob wrote:
Magnificent!


Thanks, Jim!

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Feb 22, 2017 06:34:28   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
SusanFromVermont wrote:
Hi Gene, I've got a question about shooting panos. Do you always take them with the camera in one spot, and rotating it? I think I heard somewhere that you can also move the camera and tripod, but not sure that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks
Susan


Susan, I do both. The two images I posted were done on a tripod. The natural scenery was done with a PC-E lens and using a combination of sliding the shift left and right, and a little extra camera rotation. The scene of Manhattan at night was camera rotation only. I don't use a Nodal head, but I am careful to select panos where there are no foreground objects that obscure the background, revealing a parallax error.

You don't have to be particularly accurate composing your individual images either. The stitching program will merge the sections that overlap, even if your camera is not dead level. This was done without a tripod, and I took 8 images to get it all in. I was on Rt 1 in California, near Morro Bay, and unable to set up a tripod - narrow, heavily traveled road with narrow shoulder.

15959x7531 px
15959x7531 px...
(Download)

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