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Chances of Intelligently Designed Universe "May Be ZERO"
Dec 25, 2016 08:59:00 #
This is the reason I turned away from Christianity and organized religions as a whole. Do not read that as a denigration of Christ but rather a focus I can accept. My Jesuit education led me to agnosticism which in turn led me to Taoism. The universe is infinite, I am not. I simply, and I mean simply, focus on the nature around us. It is one of the reasons I enjoy UHH; so many here display their love of nature. (I especially enjoy the work of "Old Hippy" for this reason).
I leave matters of faith to others to follow, I am simply grateful for being a part of this universe.
I leave matters of faith to others to follow, I am simply grateful for being a part of this universe.
Dec 25, 2016 09:11:19 #
green wrote:
...a prominent TV physicist recently said that the... (show quote)
I like your logic on this. How can you possibly stake odds on something like this when you have only one universe with which to compare?
Having said that, you will soon find out that I am the only conscious being in the Universe, and the rest of you people are only figments of my fertile imagination! Merry Christmas.
Dec 25, 2016 13:38:16 #
ole sarg
Loc: south florida
Show me any reproducible experiment that proves there is a god.
Belief in god is a matter of faith. The beginning of the universe is a matter of science. Science is backed by reproducible experiments. Now you give me an experiment that is reproducible that shows god created the universe or for that matter that god created anything!
If your personal faith is reliant upon the acceptance of myth as given in the bible than I feel sorry for you.
Happy Holidays!
Belief in god is a matter of faith. The beginning of the universe is a matter of science. Science is backed by reproducible experiments. Now you give me an experiment that is reproducible that shows god created the universe or for that matter that god created anything!
If your personal faith is reliant upon the acceptance of myth as given in the bible than I feel sorry for you.
Happy Holidays!
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Dec 25, 2016 13:48:02 #
ole sarg wrote:
Show me any reproducible experiment that proves there is a god. The beginning of the universe is a matter of science. Science is backed by reproducible experiments.
Now show me the reproducible experiments that show the beginning of the Universe, or The Big Bang, or The Big Lebowski, or whatever.
Dec 25, 2016 14:03:48 #
Kombiguy wrote:
You're clearly unfamiliar with Catholicism. Rely in large part on Aristotle and Aquinas, the Church long ago tackled the problem of a prime mover and first causes.
If Tyson is correct, and that's an incredibly long shot, he merely moves, as you note, the origin problem back one level. Sooner or later, one is forced to confront a creation event. That is either a God, or an accident.
The Church long ago figured this out.
If Tyson is correct, and that's an incredibly long shot, he merely moves, as you note, the origin problem back one level. Sooner or later, one is forced to confront a creation event. That is either a God, or an accident.
The Church long ago figured this out.
This is not an accurate statement. A beginning implies that there is an end. The something from nothing argument implies that there was a time that there was nothing. That need not be correct, Perhaps there has always been a something. If a God created everything something must mave created a God because a god is a something The fact is that nothing is immposible. there cannot be nothing. Even the absense of everything is a something. WE are ultimately ignorant of how the universe started. But ignorance does not imply a divinity. For some not knowing is unsettling-hence religion and creation myths. The Greeks, Romans, Egyptian etc-etc-etc. had their religions and gods that we refer to as myths and dismiss them. The American Indians had the great spirit. But somehow we look down our noses at those religious bliefs as somhow primative--how pompous we are. We "modern" people have our religions- we dare not call them myths. But in reality they are myths. Ultimately no one can prove that there is a god.
Dec 25, 2016 16:21:16 #
By moving the event back and back we will come to The Big Bang - was that natural or created. And while you fumble around with that do not forget the question of 'what about before' the Big Bang. Even so, was there really a Big Bang or is it just a model that enables 'talking about.' If just a model, did not someone have to have 'created' it. As is well understood, atoms and molecules are forever in motion and every once in a while bump into each other, thus making a third specie of matter. So in the vast sea of stuff the statistical theory of random fluctuations predicts a fluctuation such that the result is living matter that after replication (fluctuation theory so provides) builds our First Living Ancestor. A book on Genome talks a bit about our first DNA.
Dec 25, 2016 16:24:29 #
green wrote:
even more important question: Who made whom, that made god?
Doesn't the question of who made God imply that God had an ancestor and what all does that imply?
Dec 26, 2016 07:31:41 #
boberic wrote:
A beginning implies that there is an end.
Not correct.
Dec 26, 2016 07:33:34 #
John_F wrote:
By moving the event back and back we will come to ... (show quote)
And where did that "stuff" that bumps into each other come from?
Dec 26, 2016 09:21:52 #
[quote=boberic]This is not an accurate statement. A beginning implies that there is an end.
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The is no end of time and there was no beginning of time. Time cannot exist without matter as matter cannot exist without time.
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The is no end of time and there was no beginning of time. Time cannot exist without matter as matter cannot exist without time.
Dec 26, 2016 11:20:08 #
[quote=Frosty]
Close. Time is, in one definition, the duration of all existence. So you are right, but incomplete. Not all that exists is "matter." Some things exist as energy, some as incorporeal res.
boberic wrote:
This is not an accurate statement. A beginning implies that there is an end.
********
The is no end of time and there was no beginning of time. Time cannot exist without matter as matter cannot exist without time.
********
The is no end of time and there was no beginning of time. Time cannot exist without matter as matter cannot exist without time.
Close. Time is, in one definition, the duration of all existence. So you are right, but incomplete. Not all that exists is "matter." Some things exist as energy, some as incorporeal res.
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Dec 26, 2016 11:53:48 #
Kombiguy wrote:
Close. Time is, in one definition, the duration of all existence. So you are right, but incomplete. Not all that exists is "matter." Some things exist as energy, some as incorporeal res.
Not to quibble, ok, to quibble. Considering the duality of nature, matter and energy are interchangeable. Matter can be converted to energy and, presumablelay, natural forces can convert energy to matter.
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