Need More reach? I recently went on a group photo shoot at a Sand Hill Crane refuge and took my kit 100-300 canon lens and my Rebel XTi. I was rather intimidated by the many longer -...

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

I recently went on a group photo shoot at a Sand Hill Crane refuge and took my kit 100-300 canon lens and my Rebel XTi. I was rather intimidated by the many longer - higher quality lens I saw there. However after opening the images up on PS I found myself amazed at the quality of photo I could end up with thru cropping and manipulation - as well as finding my focal length in 35 mm was 475. Any tips on what to look for to ecenomicaly increase my zoom?

Here are my original and final results for your C &C.

Harvey

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imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

Harvey wrote:

I recently went on a group photo shoot at a Sand H... (show quote)

The most important thing you can do is get a camera with a high pixel density sensor ( think Kodachrome 25 from the film era ) so you can crop better/more and do not be afraid to use pixel enlargement if needed. Also, make sure the camera/lens are stabilized properly and stop the lens down 1 stop from wide open and use the lowest ISO possible commensurate with a tolerable shutter speed.

Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA

Thanks - these were shot into the west at sundown - thri pod - f8 - 1/125 - 100 asa - there may be some camera shake from manual shutter release.
Camera up grade is pretty much out of the question at this point.

imagemeister wrote:

The most important thing you can do is get a camera with a high pixel density sensor ( think Kodachrome 25 from the film era ) so you can crop better/more and do not be afraid to use pixel enlargement if needed. Also, make sure the camera/lens are stabilized properly and stop the lens down 1 stop from wide open and use the lowest ISO possible commensurate with a tolerable shutter speed.

waegwan Loc: Mae Won Li

Harvey wrote:

I recently went on a group photo shoot at a Sand H... (show quote)

Economically is relevant, it would help the community help you if we knew what your spending limits are. I'm guessing your lens is the 100-300 4.5-5.6 USM not L series. In my concept of economical I'd suggest an old 100-300 5.6 L series. I picked one up on eBay a while back for $225. I'm really amazed at its sharpness and it works with a Tamron 2X converter very well. I'll try to dig up some photos I done with that combination or just take it out and shoot some for you and post them. I'm curious about your comment "as well as finding my focal length in 35 mm was 475". The sensor size does not change to focal length, only the field of view. Another thought to help with sharpness, I'm not familiar with the XTi, but I believe it has mirror lockup; are you using it?

waegwan Loc: Mae Won Li

Harvey wrote:

I recently went on a group photo shoot at a Sand H... (show quote)

Here are some samples of the Canon 100-300 f/5.6 L. These are all straight out of the camera JPG. You can check the EXIF for details. I don't have any nice birds nearby today so I used the flags to include motion in the experiment. The ones that are labeled 300mm 2X means they were shot with the Tamron 2X converter pushing the focal length to 600mm but the EXIF doesn't read the Tamron converter so it shows 300mm. I think if you play with them in PP you will see they sharpen up pretty well. The Tamron 2X can be had for $100 or less on eBay and the 100-300 can be had on eBay for around $200 for a good one. Hope this helps.

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insman1132 Loc: Southwest Florida

Nicely done, Harvey.

wotsmith Loc: Nashville TN

Well, you really did it when you decided to shoot birds. I think it is the most costly endeavor in photography. While some of the new zooms (see greg basic - deepgreenphotography.com) do pretty well, there is no substitute for really good glass. I don't know your finances, but spending $13,000 on a 600mm F4 is not as dumb as you think if you have 13 grand. The reason is that if you keep it clean, the value stays good, and it can be sold for a substantial sum. I bought a used Canon 600mm F4 version 1 and kept it several years and when the version 2 came out, I sold the version 1 for more than I paid for it. I do put the camo covers on my lenses, not that I think the birds care, but it keeps the lens clean. Yes, a big investment, but at least you have a sellable asset. The other cost after the lens, is new bodies that have a higher frame rate, then trips to crazy places to see better and different birds. Well welcome to my world - it is expensive, but great
Good Luck

whitewolfowner

Harvey wrote:

I recently went on a group photo shoot at a Sand H... (show quote)

There is no cheap way to get closer, but the cheapest way to reach more is through a teleconverter.

waegwan Loc: Mae Won Li

whitewolfowner wrote:

There is no cheap way to get closer, but the cheapest way to reach more is through a teleconverter.

Tele converters work but you still need L series or equivalent quality lenses to get sharp images. In my experience adding a tele converter to a low quality lens like the Canon 28-200 USM only adds to the frustration.

Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC

Harvey as others have mentioned a 10megapixel sensor is not likely ideal for bird photography... regardless of lens...
If you want to stay with Canon there are ample cost effective third party glass offerings that go out to 600mm from Sigma and Tamron...
Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM
Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD

Best advice? Used glass can be a very cost effective option...
But be certain you can test and return if it doesn't meet expectations...
KEH is a good vendor for previously owned glass...

Bird and Sports photography do have rather high "kit" barriers to entry...
Have you consider portraiture? It is far and way the most commercially viable genre...

All the best on your journey...

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Harvey wrote:

I recently went on a group photo shoot at a Sand H... (show quote)

Couldn't agree more - though I did use a large lens (600mmF4) with a 1.4x TC on a D800 - the birds were about 2000 ft away.

(Download)

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Thomas902 wrote:

Harvey as others have mentioned a 10megapixel sens... (show quote)

Why would you say something like that?

These were taken with a D200 (10 MP) and a Sigma 50-500 (not a great lens but certainly an OK one)

Best advice to Harvey:

Explore and leverage your gear's capabilities. I have taken decent images with gear that most people would say is just not possible.

Thomas, as you stated, there are good used lenses out there - you just have to know which ones - on a cropped sensor (and even a full frame) I like the Sigma 100-300 F4 (not the horrible variable aperture one), which is particularly sharp at F5.6-F8 which is available for around $500, the Sigma 50-500 available for around $450 without stabilization or $750 with stabilization), Canon 400mm F5.6 - an exceptionally sharp and light lens - you can find nice clean copies of this lens, which is still in production, for around $850.

Get as close as you can to your subjects - it will minimize the need for longer focal lengths.

Successful bird photography involves being in the right place at the right time. Understanding and observing the habits of the birds you want to shoot goes a long way to being in the right place and time.

Be patient. You'd be surprised at how short a memory birds have. When you first arrive at a shooting location, all the birds will fly away. But if there is food there, they will all come back, and their drive to eat will override the threat that you initially represented when you first arrived. Leverage that, keep the camera at your eye, and just watch and wait. You WILL get your shots.

Don't let the guys with the big lenses intimidate you. Take great shots with your modest gear and show them off - it will be the guys with the big lenses (overcompensating perhaps) that will feel intimidated.

Hang out with other bird photographers - you will learn where they are, how to find them, how to shoot them, and in general your bird shots will improve. This includes joining a local photo club.

Read the Audubon websites that are in your area - there is a wealth of information on them, and links to other resources. You'll get up to the minute updates on migratory birds in the area and where you'll find them. Often this is done through Twitter.

So, while your current lens option is pretty mediocre at the moment, given your goals, I would first replace the glass with something better - as you can see better glass is everything, and even a 10 mp camera is adequate for bird photography. Then think about upgrading your camera. Newer cameras have greater resolution, better focus acquisition and tracking, snappier handling, better high ISO/low light performance, etc. There is no need to go out and spend $$$$$$$$ on gear. It's not hard to get decently priced but good gear and make the best of it.

(Download)

James R. Kyle Loc: Saint Louis, Missouri (A Suburb of Ferguson)

Gene51 wrote:

Why would you say something like that?

These were taken with a D200 (10 MP) and a Sigma 50-500 (not a great lens but certainly an OK one)

Best advice to Harvey:

Explore and leverage your gear's capabilities. I have taken decent images with gear that most people would say is just not possible.

Thomas, as you stated, there are good used lenses out there - you just have to know which ones - on a cropped sensor (and even a full frame) I like the Sigma 100-300 F4 (not the horrible variable aperture one), which is particularly sharp at F5.6-F8 which is available for around $500, the Sigma 50-500 available for around $450 without stabilization or $750 with stabilization), Canon 400mm F5.6 - an exceptionally sharp and light lens - you can find nice clean copies of this lens, which is still in production, for around $850.

Get as close as you can to your subjects - it will minimize the need for longer focal lengths.

Successful bird photography involves being in the right place at the right time. Understanding and observing the habits of the birds you want to shoot goes a long way to being in the right place and time.

Be patient. You'd be surprised at how short a memory birds have. When you first arrive at a shooting location, all the birds will fly away. But if there is food there, they will all come back, and their drive to eat will override the threat that you initially represented when you first arrived. Leverage that, keep the camera at your eye, and just watch and wait. You WILL get your shots.

Don't let the guys with the big lenses intimidate you. Take great shots with your modest gear and show them off - it will be the guys with the big lenses (overcompensating perhaps) that will feel intimidated.

Hang out with other bird photographers - you will learn where they are, how to find them, how to shoot them, and in general your bird shots will improve. This includes joining a local photo club.

Read the Audubon websites that are in your area - there is a wealth of information on them, and links to other resources. You'll get up to the minute updates on migratory birds in the area and where you'll find them. Often this is done through Twitter.

So, while your current lens option is pretty mediocre at the moment, given your goals, I would first replace the glass with something better - as you can see better glass is everything, and even a 10 mp camera is adequate for bird photography. Then think about upgrading your camera. Newer cameras have greater resolution, better focus acquisition and tracking, snappier handling, better high ISO/low light performance, etc. There is no need to go out and spend $$$$$$$$ on gear. It's not hard to get decently priced but good gear and make the best of it.

Why would you say something like that? br br Thes... (show quote)

======================

This is really good advice - as Always, Gene.

I too have hung-out with other "birders" at times and found a wealth of knowledge from them. Whatever subject of photography anyone wishes to know about is out there, not only on YouTube (or other sites) but in the Real World. Joining a camera club - or "Meet-Up" group in your area will provide the knowledge anyone would wish for and MORE.

By The Way.....

Really good work there, Gene, on the bird-shots you posted. I had the Sigma 15--500 (Canon mount) a few years ago.... I traded it in for the Tamron 150-600... Got a good trade-in for it at "Schiller's Camera" here in STL, MO.... Very happy about the images I capture with it.

(Download)

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

James R wrote:

====================== br br This is really good ... (show quote)

Thanks!

Your image shows what solid technique and a few extra $$ can do when you put them together at the right time and in the right place. Clear evidence that it is not the gear, not the photographer, not luck, not experience, not post processing skills - it is ALL of the above.

BudsOwl Loc: Upstate NY and New England

Harvey wrote:

Thanks - these were shot into the west at sundown - thri pod - f8 - 1/125 - 100 asa - there may be some camera shake from manual shutter release.
Camera up grade is pretty much out of the question at this point.

Harvey, one way to avoid manual release problems is to set a 2 second delay. Someone suggested mirror lockup, but I'm not sure whether or not the Xti has that feature. I started my DSLR days with an Xti, but that was three cameras back.
Bud