c49smith Loc: Ohio

Hi again, it seems like I have more questions than answers lately... But I am so grateful for the wealth of knowledge and wisdom I have found here on the HOG! So to the question at hand. I want to set up a multi (up to 3) flash off camera system to use in my basement studio that will work with my D7200. I already have light fixtures, diffusers, umbrellas, stands that I picked up at a garage sale but alas... no flash units. Since I don't intend to do this for a living I would like to keep the cost down, at least initially. If I find I'm any good then I can invest in better equipment later... maybe even a FF body...lol. Any and all recommendations are welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance... C

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

You can go to stobist and they have most all of the info you will need. Canon also has some good tutorials as well and BH. I personal use two Yongnuo most of the time and my let my cameras fire the flash. Some times I use flash triggers but I have better success using the camera. I have one Canon 430 that will not fire by camera. I some times use it on the camera and the other two as slaves. You should be able for about $150.00 or a little more for starter set to see where you want to go. I believe your camera also can be used to fire the flashes.

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

That is how I started. I am a Nikon guy and used three SB-800s. There were no cheap knock-offs back then and now there are several. I cannot suggest any specific brand since I do not use them, others here do and can talk about how well they work. Whatever you buy, I strongly suggest they be compatible with the Nikon CLS - that will allow you to trigger them with your on-camera, pop-up flash, to set the flashes in groups and control the output of each group. Buying manual-only flashes is short-sighted and you will regret it.

A FF body will NOT improve your photography and is the last thing you should consider buying. I made a lot of money with crop frame cameras.

big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada

You may want to look at the Vivitar 285HV. It's been a work horse for years and while it doesn't have TTL, I mean who uses TTL in studio anyway, but does have variable power from full to 1/16 power control along with 4 auto modes. Last I checked they were around the $85 mark. Of course you will also need a method to fire them whether slave or rc units.

jcboy3

There are lots of ways to approach this; you could buy some cheap Chinese flashes (Yongnou) and radio triggers. There is some chance the flash will fail early; getting fixed by shipping to China will take time and money so just buy an extra (i.e. buy 4 flashes if you want 3). Or pick up older name brand flashes (I like the Nikon SB-80DX) and radio triggers. These won't be TTL but that's not an issue in studio. If you go that route, I recommend Cactus V6 triggers; they allow up to 4 independent groups with remote power adjustment...very convenient when setting up.

You should get a flash meter to set flash power. The Sekonic meters are good but expensive; I recommend the Polaris meter if cost is a real issue.

You should have a good white balance target, and use it after you have set the power levels on your flashes. White balance can shift with flash power.

I recommend you get brolly umbrellas (like Photek softligher, these come with a diffusion cover) and/or rectangular and strip soft boxes, and grids to control light spill. This will let you work closer to a background. You need something large (e.g. 60" umbrella) for full body shots; smaller will work for head/torso shots.

Since this is for studio, I really do suggest you consider getting strobes with modeling lights rather than flashes. The modeling lights let you see what you will be getting without chimping. Look around for some used Alien Bees; these can be pretty inexpensive.

And get a boom for mounting a flash / strobe as hair/rim light.

And you can get large panel reflectors (or make some from foam core board).

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

A couple key words in there, indicating that later you might be willing to invest more heavily.

I'd approach this in a different way, looking at higher quality to start with, just getting less of it. It need not be top quality though, but for example I would start with one older used quality strobe light rather than 3 or more inexpensive speedlights.

For example, you can get a 300 Ws Paul C Buff White Lightning strobe on eBay for less than $150 if you are patient. I just saw a pair of X1600 units (660 Ws) go for $250. But bide your time and learn what the differences are, then buy the right ones not just the first cheap one that is available.

Those are far far better than using a speedlight. A powerful speedlight is about 80 Ws. It isn't so much that you need 360 plus Ws of power, but to get 80 Ws with a speedlight means eating up batteries and having to wait seconds between shots. A 640 Ws strobe puts out the same 80 Ws when it is set for 3 fstops down, where it charges instantly. A 300 Ws strobe is not much slower.

With one strobe and two reflectors you can do a lot. Here is an extremely well done video showing one light studio portraiture, and then another video for three lights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0HgGWi-3n4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9RVNwFwA1c

They have 30 something videos online, virtually all of which are interesting. But here are the two on studio equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqY9Gd-8XM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5J3faz4SI

Also, if the first strobe acquired is an older and low cost unit... it is still useful when you upgrade to a newer and more versatile strobe. A White Lightning Ultra600 that was the first light works well as a second light when you decide to spend a few bucks on an Einstein E640 (and that is probably what you'll want in the end). They all work well with Buff's CyberSync remote triggering. The control unit has a very good flash meter, and will cost $180. But each time you add another light it's only about $30 each for the receivers.

Eventually having all main lights (not necessarily hair lights or back lights) that are Einstein E640's also means that all of the light projected onto a subject can be at the same color temperature, regardless of what power each light is set to. Speedlights can't do that and other strobes that can are expensive.

Hence it might be wise to plan a path for future upgrades where not everything you start with has to be replaced for the second stage, and the entire second stage need not be tossed for a third stage.

Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina

Look at this video and learn what you can do with one speedlite...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7zZBD6EMB1k

Best,
Todd Ferguson
Harrisburg, NC

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I'm with Old Timer and Capt. C on this one. Stobist will give you quite a lot of information. I used to use some large studio strobes. As of about a year ago, I've been using 3 SB-800s and one SB-600. They provide more than adequate light.
--Bob

ronz Loc: Florida

Rather than suggest speed lights to you since there are so many available now at much less than I paid starting out, I strongly suggest you get and use triggers which ever you purchase. I still use speed lights for some location work but studio strobes in the studio for obvious reasons. I'm partial to certain speed lights but you can start out at much less cost than when I began. Good luck and have fun with whatever you choose.

rwilson1942 Loc: Houston, TX

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

In studio you have a choice: instant or flash lighting... or continuous lighting.

Continuous lighting can be easier in one respect... what you see is what you get. It's a lot easier to set up, than flash of any sort.

In the past, continuous lighting was done with "hot lights". Those were various types of bulbs that literally got hot, so were a bit limited in their usefulness. With continued use, they'd get hot enough that you literally could get a bad burn if you touched a bulb... or anything very near it. You had to be careful to use light modifiers that were heat resistant and they could be impossible if shooting ice or ice cream, or uncomfortable for portraits.

Today we have "cool lights" that are a lot more practical form of continuous lighting: LED and fluorescent that not only use less power, but also don't heat up anywhere near as much. Now, in both cases it's usually important to get specialized types, especially designed, stabilized and color balanced for photography. Those are more expensive than standard household types of lighting. But if working with still life or any other stationary subject, you might be able to use longer exposure with lower power, less expensive lights.

Instant light is either from portable flash or studio strobes. You sound as if you are looking at portable flash, but need to be aware that those are a lot lower powered than even the lowest power studio strobes. For example, I have five 320 watt second monolights that I use for location work. Those are relatively low power, as strobes go. But they are still about two or three times as powerful as the most powerful portable flash that Canon makes. (I also use six of those: three older 550EX and three 580EX II, which have guide numbers around 190 feet, at ISO 100.)

If wanting to use portable flash indirectly with umbrellas, for example, you will likely need to "gang up" three of the more powerful ones to have a minimally usable "main light" (I gang up two of my monolights into a 60" umbrella, however for the large part that's so I can use them on 1/2 power for faster recycling). You'll also need at least one more light source as a fill... perhaps a second, smaller umbrella with one or two flashes. But you also might want some specialized light sources... such as a boom light to use overhead, such as for a "hair light".... or background lighting. Small products are easier, since the light sources can be much closer, they also don't need to be as powerful. It's also usually possible to use diffusing panels or a diffusing "tent", with direct flash instead of bouncing it out of an umbrella (where a lot of light is "lost").

Even with 640ws in a main light and 320ws in a fill, I need to keep my umbrella/bounce rigs relatively close... 8 to 12 feet from the subject for a portrait, for example. That still only gives a fairly large aperture (say f4) at a relatively slow shutter speed (1/160 with one of my cameras, 1/200 with the others) and ISO 100 to 200. For comparable, minimal setup with portable flash, I'd expect to use at least five units (three ganged in the main umbrella and two in the fill).

You might shop around for some used studio strobes. There are many good ones... a lot of them more powerful than what I use. (I was trying to keep them relatively portable for location work... most of my kit fits into a single, 80 lb. roller case that barely fits into the back of my SUV. Only my background rig and boom stand are separate bag.)

I know folks who use multiple 800, 1200, 1500ws and even larger strobes in their studio work. Some of those (and mine) are "monolights", where each unit has it's own power supply. Others are "strobe heads" that attach to a large power pack. The latter tend to be the most powerful (if a bit "old school")... but also may be a bit limiting where they can be located, in order to connect to their large power pack via specialized cables.

If you get a relatively well known brand, replacement flash tubes or other spare parts for any repairs will still likely be available..

Many studio strobes.... and some portable flash... have modeling lights to help with setup. But you'll also likely end up doing test shots, making adjustments, then doing more test shots. A separate, handheld incident flash meter can be a huge help!

Another thing that can be a big help with either portable flash or strobes are remote triggering devices. Fewer wires to deal with (and have connection problems with). There are basically two types: optical and radio. Many modern flash and studio strobes have at least optical built-in. Radio communication has been rather expensive, but can be more reliable, with greater range and flexibility of placement. Radio is becoming more affordable and increasingly is being built into portable flash and some strobes.

photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA

I use the YongNuo 460; they are totally manual flashes that do a great job. They've gone up a bit in price. A quick check on Ebay shows that they're selling in the $45 range. They only have a single contact point so they are not camera specific and work well with the YN triggers (which are camera brand specific). They also work in Master, Slave 1, and Slave 2 modes. The newer YN460 flashes (with an inline battery configuration) have a recycle time of about 5 seconds at full power; the recycle time is faster as you reduce the power.

jimmya Loc: Phoenix

Have you considered static stand, soft box lighting? I ask because the kit I have would (I think) be excellent for what you're wanting. Look this over and see what you think... it may work for you.

https://www.amazon.com/Chromakey-Flourescent-lightstand-Fancierstudio-9004S-3/dp/B003Y31CAC?ie=UTF8&keywords=photography%20lighting%20kits&qid=1413650202&ref_=sr_1_80&sr=8-80

forjava Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA

Useful post, esp. this, which I did not know: White balance can shift with flash power.
Thanks, jcboy3.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

49, if you live in or near a large metro area look on Craig's list. I bought my first strobes, a set of 3 with stands, umbrellas, boom, backdrops, sync cords etc for $250. There us a set I'm looking at right now, 3 lights, stands and umbrellas for $350. Just look for older stuff that well made as opposed to all the cheap little Chinese lights that are your there.
For location I also prefer to use strobes, but speed lights are very portable and extra battery power cost nothing. But they work well for small areas.
Just look around for a while and see what turns up. As far as new, that's available all the time and always for the same price, so not much hurry on new stuff. Good luck
SS