C. David Loc: Wisconsin

UV filters do come in handy. ON THE LIGHTER SIDE....what is a Sony? The counterpart to SHARE? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8-) (lighten up...Sony&Share)

d4stone Loc: The Villages, Florida

I went to this link and did a DOF calculation. With your lens at 300mm and at a distance of 10 feet here are the results at various f/stops;

F/Stop DOF
f4.6 .05ft
f5.6 .07ft
f8.0 .09ft
f11.0 .13ft
f16.0 .19ft
f22.0 .26ft
here is the link
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Georgews Loc: Wellington, New Zealand

Hi - Use a steady tripod, use either a remote release or put it on 2 sec self timer, manual focus, IS off. Also use a smaller aperture to make the depth of focus greater. You may have to up the ISO a bit to do this depending on how slow your shutter speed is. If you are using a 300mm lens you need at least 1/250 hand held (reccommend 1/500), on a good tripod you can go slower. Do not fire camera by pressing shutter button as you WILL get shake. A remote release will set you back less then $20 - and for a few bucks more you can get one with an intravoltameter so you can take time lapse.
Sounds like you have the general idea of focus on the eyes etc
Hope this helps

ole sarg Loc: south florida

In addition to using the above mentioned items and settings be sure to ask the bird to be patient.

spphoto Loc: Long Island,N.Y.

what f.stop are you shooting at? You should be at f11 or f16 and with a shutter speed of 500 .make sure your antishake is off if on a tripod.

bawlmer Loc: Baltimore, MD

When you are shooting at 300mm, what is several millimeters distance at the camera is several feet where the camera is focused. So if you move the camera up or down a few millimeters, it's real easy to get a blurry photo. If you want a nice, clean, sharp photo, use a tripod. You'll get alot more keepers than going handheld all the time. :)

pinkycat Loc: The Garden State

Great suggestions, Scott. I'm going to try it. My filters are pretty good, Hoya's.
Travlinman - By the button, I meant the one on the camera. Didn't think that it might move, since I mounted it on a tripod on good footing.

saichiez Loc: Beautiful Central Oregon

I've gone through this post two times in detail. I am a bit non-plussed that you have not given us enough information to assist you. Everybody who has posted is shooting in the dark, as represented by the poster who finally summarized a long list, but even he left out 4 or 5 potential issues.

Would love to assist, but just don't see how with the absence of information you are posting.

What camera do you have? What lenses (brand and model). I suspect you have some form of Canon, as you mentioned a 24-150L lens. However the Canon lens I think you are posting is actually a 24-105L. Is it a f2.4 or f4.0?

Why are you using a haze filter. Have you heard the phrase..."I never understand people put a $50 piece of glass on a $1000 lens and expect the image to NOT be degraded". Furthermore, what makes you believe there is actually the possibility of "visible haze" in the short distance you are shooting to your subject? Dump the filter, all of them, until you learn about filter usage.

Pressing the shutter with your finger on the shutter button is a very distinct way to introduce shake into your images. You can only test camera shake by taking yourself entirely out of the equation.

You also did not tell us if you have any solid information regarding the possibility that your camera is simply not capable of sharp focus. You are so quick to blame yourself as doing "something wrong". Are you just having focus problems with one lens. Do you have a lens which has given you sharp focus.

It's possible that your camera/lens combination is front focusing, or back focusing. This happens more than you might think. I had to send a Canon 5D and a 28-135 camera to Canon to have a front focus situation corrected. The lens was at one end of the focus tolerance and the camera body was at the other end of the focus tolerance. This happens more often than one might think, particularly with entry camera's produced in large quantities. There are ways, using focus targets to test for front/back focus. If you have that problem, unless you have it recalibrated, you will never accurately focus (with AF) a certain lens body combo.

I'm not trying to be a hard ass here, although it's easy for me to take that role. I'd really like to see you resolve you focus problem, but there is not enough info FROM YOU in response to the many attempts to help. I think many are sincerely trying, but the problem with so many of these forums is the "shotgunning" of responses, without good data or feed back from the original poster.

So some primary info would be nice:

1) What camera
2) What lenses
3) Have any of the lenses ever given you a sharp focus picture of any type.
4) If you can't shoot birds, will it kill your photography interest.

Two type of photography I have never shot, and probably never will....Weddings, and birds. Audabon took care of everything I need to know about birds.

And about your comment on Hoya filters being good... Yes they are, and the only useful purpose for any filter, other than a very expensive polarizer, is as a replacement for a lost lens cap. Otherwise, they simply get in the way of good photography, until you learn a very lot about how they affect your images.

Regarding shake... take yourself out of the equation completely, until the camera/lens combo shows good focus results. Then consider feeding yourself back into the equation. Keep your finger off any part of the camera until you have those results from the equipment. Use AF until you achieve focus. Don't try to do manual focus through the viewfinder, UNTIL you know if you have the diopter adjustment on the viewfinder set for a correct focus. Achieve good focus with AF, and then set the viewfinder diopter to view a good focus. (This of course, comes after you rule out front or back focusing on your camera lens combo)

I use either a string pod, a monopod, or a tripod. Handholding is for those who accept rather mediochre results in their photography, at least on critical focus. That doesn't mean you can't have good images. It just means that the "be all to end all" cannot be focus. There are many other aspects to good photography.

glojo Loc: South Devon, England

If you are in your back garden with the camera firmly a-fixed to the tripod and a beautiful rare bird lands on a bush close to the feeder but MUCH higher up, do you attempt to track round with the camera and because of the height of this critta, do you then somehow contort yourself to try to find this pesky rare bird.

Then just before you take the picture of this incredibly rare creature the pesky thing swoops down onto the lawn.... what do you do then apart from take out a cigar and wish the camera was not firmly secured to the tripod?

Only a fool would suggest the tripod is a useless piece of kit but do you need a controlled environment in which to operate it? Would you focus the camera on the bird feeder and accept that anything and everything else that might come into your peripheral vision is out of bounds unless it is on the same plane as the feeder or it is lifeless and completely oblivious of what you are doing and hangs about until you can re-sight the camera?

A mono pod might be more flexible and less cumbersome but if we want to take pictures of wild birds in uncontrolled environments then surely it is better to learn how to hold a camera steady as opposed to carrying a hunking great big tripod about? I say big tripod as what is the point of using a flimsy, light weight thing that will wobble and wibble with the slightest of vibrations. I guess we could always purchase the very latest carbon fibre tripod that tend to cost an arm and maybe a leg?

The lens the author is talking about is a relatively lightweight piece of equipment and as long as they use sensible shutter speeds and practice, practice, practice... camera shake will be less of a problem compared to the freedom of movement that comes with it.

Apologies for having this second bite of the cherry, but I love the freedom of choice that hand holding a camera offers, this topic is surely worthy of debate and both sides should throw in their two penarth of information? :-)

Heavy prime telephoto lens are in a different league and I totally accept it will or it is a challenge to hand hold these heavy beasts but it is definitely possible.



I would suggest hand holding is for those that want the freedom of choice. Whilst looking at my bird feeder the World's fastest flying bird flew over our garden, and hey presto... A very rare sighting which I certainly do NOT consider a mediocre shot and furthermore I am NOT a good photographer and with practice you WILL be able to take good pictures :) Just keep trying. The bird by the way is a young Peregrine Falcon that is the Formula 1 speed machine of the bird world and yes it really did over fly our garden.

pinkycat Loc: The Garden State

To saichiez --

Wow! It really took a lot of effort to write your post. I do want everyone to know that I do use the "Search" feature frequently BEFORE I post a question.

As to some of your questions -- Evidently you did not read the post where the pictures were. If you had, you would see that I said I have a T3 and was using a 75-300mm lens on a tripod. And I listed all the settings.

After I read your post, I was a little irritated by what I perceived to be a condescending tone. And I was ready to respond in that way. But then, I went back and re-read all the wonderful suggestions, patient and supportive responses I received from everyone else. I realized it's not me. I applaud your conviction about what you will and won't shoot. It's all good. Hemingway said it best. "I didn't choose my subject, my subject chose me." Thanks for your interest.

pinkycat Loc: The Garden State

Thanks, glojo! I was thinking about the monopod thing also. Going to give it a try this weekend. I only have 7 months under my belt and I'm self-taught. Figuring it out as I go along. UHH is a valuable resource and I'm very grateful for everyone's patience.

saichiez Loc: Beautiful Central Oregon

Thank you for your response and rethinking your reaction. I have been an instructor for many years, and interpreting condescention in my writing is usually a first (perhaps correct) response.

Sorry, I missed the camera and lens combo, although I still wonder whose brand 70-300.

My primary consideration is not whether you ever get a good bird shot, but rather that you find out whether the issues on focus are your shooting method or the camera and lens combo. Actually, I am willing to bet on you NOT being the problem. I do seriously consider that the camera or lens or both are at fault.

I am going to suppose that you are having your focus issues with the 70-300, which raises the question of whether the 24-105 also eludes sharp focus?

In any event, I pursued the possibilities I could think of in the post. In summary, I think the first thing to rule out is the possibility of front/back focus. You may want to research the internet... NOT forum on possibility and testing front or back focus on your T3i. Please don't operate on the assumption that the camera is new, and it's a Canon, so it must be good on that point. Canon, as well as every other camera maker deal with these issues. It's built into the system in the form of mass production AND the need to allow certain tolerances in the equipment to keep cost of manufacture reasonable. Particularly for the lesser priced camera's.

Again, thanks for your post and allowing the latitude to see where I am coming from. I truly hope you find a way to get that focus down pat.

ole sarg Loc: south florida

Ah, glojo great shot. What lens were you using? The reason I ask is because I never use one over 200 as I find that I just can't manhandle one and get a good shot. I prefer about 135 max for tele when hand holding.

C. David Loc: Wisconsin

This is why we are here. Isn't the collective reason to be here is to help? going to help? This blathering and rambling has made me, personally, tired. Good Luck on the new question.

William Loc: Mississippi

Yeah I guuess I'm wrong too

oops ... knife fight