kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy

Composition is as much (or more) about what you leave out of the frame as what you put in.

btbg

I went into this post expecting to disagree with the initial assertion.

After reading the entire post I'm inclined to say that Sharpshooter is probably right. Just look at how many bird and insect photographers have posted with reasons why they can't have good composition rather than working on how to improve their composition. I may very well take a photo with bad composition. But I probably won't post it unless it is to make a point.

If you look at what people post here on a daily basis there are sure a lot of nature photos with poor composition. Some of you may interpret that as tearing others down. That is not the intent. If I understand what Sharpshooter said in his lengthy response it appears that he is trying to challenge people to get better and to be more selective what they post.

It's hard to argue with that and really hard to argue that he's wrong when so many of the replies just make excuses why it's not their fault that he's right. "The bird is moving too fast" "The bird is hiding behind some branches" "The insect flies away if I try to move and recompose" There are an awful lot of that kind of response from those who are claiming that Sharpshooter is wrong.

All those responses just bolster his position to the point that I'm starting to believe that he is probably mostly right.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

My approach to birds is to find the composition first, then call in the birds. These might not be to everyone's taste, my eye was set many years ago with a Minolta SRT 101 and Tri-x film. I'm always after graphic impact.

I probably post too many shots but I'm just too used to telling a build story about my furniture and stringed instruments on other forums.

All these photos were taken with a bridge camera, two weeks ago I upgraded to a digital monster that I'm still working on.

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-230965-1.html

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-258889-1.html

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-240820-1.html

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

Just a question from a not bird person. When you call in birds do you use a special call or is it pre-recorded stuff played over your smart phone. Several folks that I shoot with will not call in birds for fear they will not find the mate they think they are being called in for and if this is done repeatedly it may cause problems in future mating for that particular bird.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

These magpies and butcherbirds are like pets, when I whistle they come for treats.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

HCB was not being disingenuous at all. Nor is it a case that "many" of his images have very strong composition. The fact is that virtually every image he ever shot has very strong composition. And that was true when he was young! Cartier-Besson literally defines how to compose!

The point was that HCB did not check rules. He didn't check to see if a subject was at 1/3rd points, nor check any other rule. What he did was actually look at his image in the viewfinder and adjust it for what satisfied his eye. When he liked the view, that was the appropriate composition. (Actually he commonly did this without even looking through the camera.) The next step was waiting for the famed "decisive moment" when energy peaked and entropy was at a minimum. In his words, "Bang!" That was the trigger.

Keep in mind that every "rule of composition" is supposed to tell you what pleases the eye of a viewer. Rather than go through a list of such memorized rules, decide by looking at the scene and selecting for what looks best to your eye. It may follow, or it may break, every known rule of composition; but that is insignificant. What counts is if the image looks good to the viewer's eye.

RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas

Thank you for responding kymarto.

Graveman Loc: Indiana

[quote=robertjerl]Not that we don't know composition, it is just that birds and other critters don't take direction very well. In spite of stalking and slinking around you often have to shoot on a "what you see is what you get basis" and it may be moving off at a high rate of speed.

Amen to that, those little critters don't always want to hang around while you do your "composition". In the last 10 years there's been only one time that I could time a birds' flight to get what I wanted, otherwise it's catch as catch can.

WALL

Most people have no interest in composition. They just want a picture of there kids.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

That's very true, and to add insult to injury, their kids are really ugly to boot, or at least as ugly as a boot!!
I think that's what is called a lose-lose!!!
SS

RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas

I love it SS. your are wise with out a doubt. I'm going stay with this post for a while longer it's getting better and better OH WISE ONE!

quagmire Loc: Greenwood,South Carolina

If I go into the back yard and shoot a rabbit,am I a nature photographer?

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

That might depend on WHAT you shoot it with?!?!
SS

leokn

Personally I don't care if SS is correct, although it smacks of someone looking for attention.
In which case that type of person typically has nothing of interest for me to learn from.

pyroManiac Loc: HIXSON,TN

It's not that we don't know or care but you take what you can get when the opportunity presents itself. Many will get trashed and others will be cropped to acquire something along the line of "composition" as best we can do. Beasties do not sit and pose until you get the desired "composition". This should need no explaining.