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Most nature shooters don't know anything about composition
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Jun 6, 2016 08:39:20   #
wotsmith Loc: Nashville TN
 
UXOEOD wrote:
Our fellow UHH'er, SharpShooter, said "Most nature shooters don't know anything about composition".

Okay fellow nature photographers, what do you say. Is Sharpshooter correct?


I am an avid wildlife/bird photographer. In my case it isn't that I don't know anything about composition, I am just not very good at it. I have often wondered if I did not choose wildlife/bird photography because I am good at the technical aspect of photography, but not gifted in composition. My wife is good at composition, so we make a team and have a great time. We'll spend this summer in the National parks of Utah, Colorado, & Wyoming. Maybe I'll get better with landscape.

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Jun 6, 2016 08:40:29   #
Ward Posey
 
Making that kind of statement as a generalization is just plain dumb. Suggest rephrasing.

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Jun 6, 2016 08:40:42   #
Nalu Loc: Southern Arizona
 
I think its an excellent post and lots of fun, but I still need a definition of "nature photographers".

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Jun 6, 2016 08:41:57   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
imagemeister wrote:
"MOST" is a dangerous word, but SS MAY be right ! - But, It's not so much ignorance as it is laziness - IMO. "Most" seem content to sit with a large lens on a gimbal/tripod and not move around to get the best fore grounds/back rounds.


I don't think so! Too many times we don't have an option to move due to terrain. The subject will most likely not stay put and many times it too dangerous to try and move in for a better or closer shot, mother grizzly with a cub or two. As for birds, sometimes you have to hope that the subject will move for better composition because if you move the bird is gone. A long lens?, there are restrictions in many parts of the areas that I shoot in with how close you can get to birds especially in the spring during nesting. One of the prerequisites for being a good nature photographer is patience, learn to wait. As for composition, it may have a lot more to do with where or how you crop your subject for the finished print. Not everyone is a walking bi-pod.

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Jun 6, 2016 08:45:43   #
sr71 Loc: In Col. Juan Seguin Land
 
Toby you stated it in a nutshell and quite correctly so. Love the first one, seal is great too and nose picker.... woo hoo....

kymarto wrote:
As with all photographic disciplines, the mark of the pros is not that they have so much a superior command of the technology (it pretty much does itself these days) or of compositional skill, but they know how to be in the right place and they are willing to wait as long as it takes for it to be the right time. And when the right time arrives they are ready.

Just a few of mine, which I like--compositional faults be damned...

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Jun 6, 2016 08:55:23   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
Hey, macro is nature as well. Try getting an insect to pose compositionally. Most times, it just wont happen, they split if you move to get a different angle. Yeah, some insects will cooperate but most won't. Just like photographing birds or other wildlife. Only there are more problems standing in the way of getting a shot with good composition (and focus). Thankfully, many of my subjects are tiny & judicious cropping can come to the rescue, but not always.

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Jun 6, 2016 08:56:26   #
Linda Ewing Loc: Lincolnshire,UK
 
If a bird or fast moving animal is stationary or nearly dead in a good position for a good composition then one gets their shot. but I do not see many landscapes or architecture photos where the object of the photo moves at lightening speed away from the photographer thus ruining the good composition!!! I have sat for many hours with good experts (me not being one of them)whose bird photos are outstanding then THE ONE beautiful shot flies off at great speed to a !!**__&& type of conversation. Those darn little creatures have got no concern for us humble photographers and always try to hide in the bad composition type of places. I think I might as well give up trying to capture them and leave it to the real experts!!!

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Jun 6, 2016 09:03:04   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
UXOEOD wrote:
Our fellow UHH'er, SharpShooter, said "Most nature shooters don't know anything about composition".

Okay fellow nature photographers, what do you say. Is Sharpshooter correct?


SharpShooter's original statement is where? This does appear to be an accusation. Even SharpShooter has Constitutional Rights.

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Jun 6, 2016 09:03:52   #
phlash46 Loc: Westchester County, New York
 
robertjerl wrote:
Not that we don't know composition, it is just that birds and other critters don't take direction very well. In spite of stalking and slinking around you often have to shoot on a "what you see is what you get basis" and it may be moving off at a high rate of speed.

If you don't frame real tight you can often crop to make the composition look better, but that causes an IQ loss.

If you have spent what feels like a couple of eons trying to get pictures of a "left winged widget bird" and you get a chance you are not likely to say "Nope, no good, branches in the way, background is too busy, the light is from the wrong direction and the bird will look like it is leaving the frame, I won't shoot!" You will take the shot, often on burst and track that bird until it ducks into dense jungle or what ever.

And for the birders among us, the south end of a north bound bird is still a "record" shot so you can add it to your lifetime list.

Now if I run into Bigfoot, he/she understands English, is not hostile and will take direction if paid in Snickers, energy bars and gatorade, well then we will try for some "proper" composition.
Not that we don't know composition, it is just tha... (show quote)



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Jun 6, 2016 09:05:29   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
UXOEOD wrote:
Our fellow UHH'er, SharpShooter, said "Most nature shooters don't know anything about composition".

Okay fellow nature photographers, what do you say. Is Sharpshooter correct?


Not seeing the original post, I'd still have to say that I am sure SharpShooter meant Wildlife Photographers.

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Jun 6, 2016 09:09:55   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
UXOEOD wrote:
Our fellow UHH'er, SharpShooter, said "Most nature shooters don't know anything about composition".

Okay fellow nature photographers, what do you say. Is Sharpshooter correct?


There are a lot of good replies here that I can both agree and disagree with in part. I can even see what SharpShooter may have said and agree and also disagree in part. This entire post is an opinion piece, so mostly halve truths at best.

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Jun 6, 2016 09:42:05   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Words worth heeding:

"Mastery of fine photographic composition requires artistic talent that is usually inborn to a certain degree but also requires study, observation,and practice. A photographer who has a command over his or her compositional savvy can apply this talent and skill even under difficult or fleeting shooting conditions- it kinda comes naturally after a while."

"For the most part, I believe artistic talent is a natural inborn thing but there are also many geometric, mathematical and rule-like principles that go into the study of composition. Perhaps it can be a learned skill or the principles can be used to develop or hone one's talents. There is the rule of thirds, the Euclid Elements, The Golden Ratio, The Fibonacci Sequence, and the theory of Dynamic Symmetry and much more. This stuff is difficult to teach and I suppose one can draw up some diagrams but in my own case, I usually work backward from what I SEE as good composition and sometimes find that what I have done kinda fits into some of these theories."
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Mastery of fine photographic composition requires artistic talent that is usually inborn to a certain degree but also requires study, observation,and practice. A photographer who has a command over his or her compositional savvy can apply this talent and skill even under difficult or fleeting shooting conditions- it kinda comes naturally after a while. Sure, there are next to impossible situations where "capturing" an image of a wild animal or bird, a split-sports event, a fleeting expression at a wedding or a "spot-news" event where artistry becomes secondary to just documenting the subject matter and telling the story. In many instances, however,I have seen photographs with a great degree compositional value that were made under very difficult scenarios such a documentary work done in war zones under combat circumstances. Oftentimes, its just little nuances of how the frame was filled- perhaps just a slight difference or shift in point of view that makes all the difference.

For the most part, I believe artistic talent is a natural inborn thing but there are also many geometric, mathematical and rule-like principles that go into the study of composition. Perhaps it can be a learned skill or the principles can be used to develop or hone one's talents. There is the rule of thirds, the Euclid Elements, The Golden Ratio, The Fibonacci Sequence, and the theory of Dynamic Symmetry and much more. This stuff is difficult to teach and I suppose one can draw up some diagrams but in my own case, I usually work backward from what I SEE as good composition and sometimes find that what I have done kinda fits into some of these theories.

Besides the placement of subjects in an artist or impactful manner, the areas of tonality, color, contrast, texture, line and form also have to do with the total composition of an image. In many cases, the composition is what tells the story and can even ALTER the story- it all has to do with emphasis and point of view!

To say or make a blanket statement that ALL photographers of any ilk or specialty "have no sense of composition" seems rather unfair- I would think that should be judged on a case to cases basis. Not every good photographer will have the same approach to composition and some shooters just want to have a picture of a woodpecker, a moose, a mountain or a tree, or grandma at a wedding reception- well- just for the record and have no artistic intentions. Takes all kinds! We are all entitled to our opinions!
Mastery of fine photographic composition requires ... (show quote)

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Jun 6, 2016 09:46:47   #
insman1132 Loc: Southwest Florida
 
Depends on the "nature" of nature at the moment. In shooting wildlife you do not always have the time to do a great job of composition. You get what you can get at that moment or get nothing at all.

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Jun 6, 2016 09:57:42   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Effective composition plays a large role in the visual balance and eye-appeal of an image. Framing the image for effective presentation goes with pleasing composition. These two generalizations any photographer desiring to rise above snapshooter will bear in mind. Together, they provide a useful foundation for any image.

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Jun 6, 2016 10:16:54   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
Rules are made to be broken. Many of the most famous images from the past break composition & other "rules" I'm reminded of the naked Vietnamese girl running it the street back during the Vietnam war.Sure, some will argue that that image is "Journalistic", not nature, but it still exemplifies my point. There are different "schools" of photography & it's mainly the "Fine Art" school that adheres religiously to these "rules". The biggest issue in making a "Great" image is that it elicits a response from the viewer, be the response either positive or negative. Thus to dwell on a particular aspect like composition is detrimental to the art of photography. This is MHO.

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