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Why Mirrorless Cameras are Better than Digital SLRs for Static Focusing
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Apr 3, 2016 23:49:49   #
JoelS Loc: Deep South Alabama
 
JD750 wrote:
Good article on DPS by Andrew S. Gibson about this subject.
(not posting a link here because the knee-jerk reaction from Admin would be to move this post to the links section or to the attic).

Note in my title I say STATIC focusing. Gibson did not differentiate static from dynamic focus in his article so I'm doing it here.

He cites 3 reasons for superiority of Mirrorless over DSLR for static focusing (below is not a copy this is my interpretation of the article):

(1) Direct focusing on the sensor. Lower complexity, no calibration or fine focus adjustments or adjustments for different lenses, are ever needed.

(2) Better manual focus tools. On DSLR's manual focus aids like split prism screens are a thing of the past. The little arrows aren't much help. Mirrorless cameras offer better manual focus tools; Focus peaking or image magnifying functions, viewable through the electronic viewfinder (ELF), which greatly aid in achieving sharp manual focus.

(3) Ability to display additional information like a Hyperfocal distance tool which displays information directly in the ELF.

All of the above rely on the ELF which shows exactly what the sensor is recording. DSLRs do not have an ELF. Some people still violently prefer seeing the scene through glass rather than a picture of a picture. However ELF's over many advantages over optical. Maybe in the future someone will offer a DSLR with a "live view" functions that is visible through the optical eyepiece and switchable from optical to live view.
Good article on DPS by Andrew S. Gibson about this... (show quote)


For anyone who wants to ditch their DSLR for mirrorless, just send them to me... i will be glad to pay the postage! Mirrorless may have their advantages in some areas but for the time being I will keep my DSLR.
:)

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Apr 4, 2016 00:03:01   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
JoelS wrote:
For anyone who wants to ditch their DSLR for mirrorless, just send them to me... i will be glad to pay the postage! Mirrorless may have their advantages in some areas but for the time being I will keep my DSLR.
:)


Ha ha that's a good deal for you.

I think the point is that as of now, both have their place. But the youngins are playing hardball. And they are taking market share from the big guys in that critical "consumer" cash cow market.

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Apr 4, 2016 00:03:33   #
wolfd Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 
SharpShooter wrote:
What's wrong with MILF?!?! :lol: :lol: :lol:&#128584; &#128586; &#128585; &#128520; &#128540; &#128576;
SS




:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Apr 4, 2016 00:16:24   #
JoelS Loc: Deep South Alabama
 
JD750 wrote:
Ha ha that's a good deal for you.

I think the point is that as of now, both have their place. But the youngins are playing hardball. And they are taking market share from the big guys in that critical "consumer" cash cow market.


Do you think that the price of DSLR's will come down to compete with the Mirrorless? I have two older Nikon DSLR's and many after market lenses and I am wondering if Nikon will try to keep up with mirrorless or strickly go with DSLR. Nikon's mirrorless are nothing to brag about in my opinion.

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Apr 4, 2016 00:19:02   #
BBurns Loc: South Bay, California
 
JD750 wrote:
... please tell me where I can obtain one!
Do a search on eBay for 'Split Image Focusing Screens' and you will get many hits.
They all come from China but there are a few sellers that are US based..

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Apr 4, 2016 00:36:22   #
Mark7829 Loc: Calfornia
 
speters wrote:
Split focusing screens are not a thing of the past, they're readily available for all sorts of DSLR's!


Can you provide information on that? Do you have a list of today's state-of-the-art cameras that use split?

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Apr 4, 2016 00:54:57   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
JoelS wrote:
Do you think that the price of DSLR's will come down to compete with the Mirrorless? I have two older Nikon DSLR's and many after market lenses and I am wondering if Nikon will try to keep up with mirrorless or strickly go with DSLR. Nikon's mirrorless are nothing to brag about in my opinion.


It's quite doubtful, because with the additional mechanical parts DSLRs are just more costly to make.

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Apr 4, 2016 01:23:43   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
BBurns wrote:
quote=tdekany]Bob - ......
Unbelievable the amount of miss info some members pull out of their a$$es.

As a retired Aerospace engineer with 35+ years in advanced spacecraft optics, I can assure you that the technology currently available to the average consumer is still evolving. OLED will be a major factor in improving that.

I guess it is really all a matter of what one uses as a point of reference:
Tack sharp focus is when you can read the headline of a newspaper lying on a park bench from an Extra-Terrestrial camera in geosynchronous orbit 23,000 miles away.
This info was not pulled from an anterior orifice, it was paid for with your tax dollars.[/quote]
Well said Sir!
:thumbup: :thumbup:

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Apr 4, 2016 09:20:51   #
Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA
 
Wow we are all caught up in the technology of focusing. Took my new Sony 6300 to kids museum with grandkids. First I love the look of the pictures. And shot some video which in "shutter"
and the camera did a great job with higher ISO's with a limit.
Focus was fine interesting I shut off the sound ex and was not sure of focus a few times. My first impressions of the 6300 are wow what imagery what a camera. I own the s7s and lens. And this $1000 camera comes very close to the new a7sII according to reviews. I used the kit lens 16 to 50mm (24 70) which got so so reviews but love it. All of my Sony FF lens the 55mm zeiss and the 70 200 Sony G lens will go right on this camera. Not thrilled about croped camera but is seems a good experience.
Ok you want to know about focusing I am off subject well even with film camera's had soft focus sometimes. But today with have digital and don't have to pay for hundreds of dollars for developing.

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Apr 4, 2016 10:53:57   #
Deacon Pete Loc: New Jersey
 
Check out the new Fuji X Pro 2 mirrorless camera. It has both optical and electronic viewfinders

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Apr 4, 2016 21:45:35   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Tom Daniels wrote:
Wow we are all caught up in the technology of focusing. Took my new Sony 6300 to kids museum with grandkids. First I love the look of the pictures. And shot some video which in "shutter"
and the camera did a great job with higher ISO's with a limit.
Focus was fine interesting I shut off the sound ex and was not sure of focus a few times. My first impressions of the 6300 are wow what imagery what a camera. I own the s7s and lens. And this $1000 camera comes very close to the new a7sII according to reviews. I used the kit lens 16 to 50mm (24 70) which got so so reviews but love it. All of my Sony FF lens the 55mm zeiss and the 70 200 Sony G lens will go right on this camera. Not thrilled about croped camera but is seems a good experience.
Ok you want to know about focusing I am off subject well even with film camera's had soft focus sometimes. But today with have digital and don't have to pay for hundreds of dollars for developing.
Wow we are all caught up in the technology of focu... (show quote)


Yes of course the technology of focusing is a hot topic.
What the hck are you talking about? What does sound have to do with focus?

I am glad you are enjoying your camera! Viva la competition.
:thumbup:

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Apr 4, 2016 22:20:34   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
JD750 wrote:
Yes of course the technology of focusing is a hot topic.
What the hck are you talking about? What does sound have to do with focus?

I am glad you are enjoying your camera! Viva la competition.
:thumbup:


Perhaps the reference to sound was about the audio beeps and squawks that some cameras do or can emit when focus confirmation is achieved.

Overall this thread has been interesting. My personal perspective is that all camera formats have virtues while none have a universal advantage at this time. I strongly believe that the cameras that will be available three or five years from now will have evolved significantly and the "this vs that" debate will be seen as irrelevant when seen though the rear view mirror of history.

Buy and use what suits you best now, and look to what may be available in the future. This game is far from over.

Back to your original post, I was involved in a meeting yesterday where we shot some video, with multiple cameras. I was responsible for one using my Canon T3i with Magic Lantern alongside a couple of Canon professional video cameras. All of my work was done through live view (it was indoors, so no screen problems) and the ML focus peaking, audio capabilities etc. we really useful. So my DSLR was functioning just like a mirrorless camera in that respect and did just as good a job.

Looking forwards we need to look at what the tech could possibly do, not just to what is on sale today. That is the benefit of ML on some Canon DSLRs. It proves what the tech can actually do today that is just not supported by the manufacturer at this point in time.

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Apr 5, 2016 11:03:00   #
Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA
 
The sound (beep) your camera makes when it locks focus! On the new Sony's you can turn it off. I meant that when I was in focus without it I had to look twice if it was sharp.

I shoot a lot of video so with my camcorders I am used to
focusing and shooting with no sound eft from camera.

It thought one of the weaknesses of mirrorless and not DSLR's was the focus speed and the hunting. Sony has solved that with the a6000 series and the new a6300.

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Apr 6, 2016 00:12:18   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Peterff wrote:
Perhaps the reference to sound was about the audio beeps and squawks that some cameras do or can emit when focus confirmation is achieved.

Overall this thread has been interesting. My personal perspective is that all camera formats have virtues while none have a universal advantage at this time. I strongly believe that the cameras that will be available three or five years from now will have evolved significantly and the "this vs that" debate will be seen as irrelevant when seen though the rear view mirror of history.

Buy and use what suits you best now, and look to what may be available in the future. This game is far from over.

Back to your original post, I was involved in a meeting yesterday where we shot some video, with multiple cameras. I was responsible for one using my Canon T3i with Magic Lantern alongside a couple of Canon professional video cameras. All of my work was done through live view (it was indoors, so no screen problems) and the ML focus peaking, audio capabilities etc. we really useful. So my DSLR was functioning just like a mirrorless camera in that respect and did just as good a job.

Looking forwards we need to look at what the tech could possibly do, not just to what is on sale today. That is the benefit of ML on some Canon DSLRs. It proves what the tech can actually do today that is just not supported by the manufacturer at this point in time.
Perhaps the reference to sound was about the audio... (show quote)


Yep good assessment of technology and trends. Well said.

One minor thing, your (an my) DSLR display the mirror up live view image on the LCD whereas the Mirrorless camera displays the image both on the LDC or on the EVF. Your choice. And you don't have to raise the mirror. LOL.

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Apr 6, 2016 02:43:17   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
JD750 wrote:
Yep good assessment of technology and trends. Well said.

One minor thing, your (an my) DSLR display the mirror up live view image on the LCD whereas the Mirrorless camera displays the image both on the LDC or on the EVF. Your choice. And you don't have to raise the mirror. LOL.


Fair point on your "minor thing", but at the moment I prefer to use a DSLR, others prefer different things, which is fine. They are all good. Hybrid optical/electronic viewfinders are early tech right now. They will improve and I expect will change things.

Perhaps if I am expressing a little frustration with the 'this model is better than that' approach, it might be that I work in the tech field and am closely involved with future tech as opposed to today's available tech. Had some nice chats today with people from one of our national labs that is responsible in part for our stockpile stewardship. Also people that supply the tech that are part of their future deployments. This ranged from supercomputers to quantum computing, and for those that think GPU's are helpful with Photosop rendering you are on the right track.

Tomorrow, I get to talk to an interesting startup in the field of AI and deep learning. Interesting capabilities leveraging both NVIDIA and Intel Xeon Phi (KNL) tech.

I have no clear idea of what cameras three or five years from now will be like, but I do know they will be different. Also that change happens on a human timescale, not a tech roadmap timescale. Buy and use what you like or want now. The future will take care of itself and too much speculation is futile.

The future will be different, but is unlikely to change overnight.

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