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Seeking heavy answers
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Mar 21, 2016 16:51:22   #
wotsmith Loc: Nashville TN
 
burkphoto wrote:
WTF???

PLEASE check out Dan Cox's blog.

http://naturalexposures.com/corkboard/

He's been using Panasonic GH4 and GX8 cameras almost exclusively for a couple of years now. His bird-in-flight work is amazing with the GX8 and forthcoming Leica 100-400mm zoom (200-800mm equivalent).

He has stated more than once that the GH4 holds its own, with frame rates in the 10-12 fps range (30 fps if you use the 4K burst mode).


I read the blog and the photos are great; he also admits he was wrong and the frame rates are 6fps; read the blog. While high frame rates are published for live view, you don't shoot BIF with live view.

I went to the DP Review for the 7Dmk2 (which is on my wish list) and this is his comment about the focusing:
:This is the type of performance we've come to expect from dedicated phase detect autofocus systems – fast focus and tracking of subjects moving toward and away from the camera are the name of the game when it comes to dedicated phase detect autofocus. In fact, these abilities are some of the biggest reasons pros and enthusiasts spring for DSLRs over their mirrorless counterparts." That certainly implies that the focus is better and faster in a good DSLR.

I am not opposed to carrying a lighter camera; but I do shoot a lot of birds, frequently with photographers much better than I am and I have never seen a professional bird photographer that was not shooting a large Nikon or Canon; all stated that the focus is faster than any mirrorless camera. In the blog, there was an interesting comment to this effect. Photographers with lessor ability, who can not compose well in the frame, may need the larger sensors. (or something to that effect) Well, that's me; not the best but the gear I have gets me published, which is my goal.

In my previous comment, I stated two things: I was not happy with a mirrorless camera for wildlife/BIF, among the reasons was that my other gear focused faster and more accurately; Still believe that is true. That does not mean you can't get good photos from other gear. But I can get more consistently in focus photos out of my DSLR, and the higher frame rate gives me more options for wing position with the faster frame rate. Cheers!

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Mar 21, 2016 16:57:36   #
smiway Loc: Riverhead, New York
 
I'll be 70 in June. Purchased an Olympus EM-1 and never regretted it for one second. As a matter of fact I love it.

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Mar 21, 2016 16:57:37   #
Paul J. Svetlik Loc: Colorado
 
Reading this discussion at length, my question is:

What are you going to do with those high megapixel images, made by the heavy, sophisticated cameras you don't like to carry?
Are you making prints larger than 16x20? Where are you going to store them? Are you thinking about building a substantial house extension?
I think I can fully agree with Gary Northrop and some others like Toni Britton here, that working with a small
sensor cameras delivers the same pleasure as the high megapixel Brownie?

The joy of carrying a 700 mm (or longer) power telephoto (equivalent) in a smaller sensor camera makes me happy especially when comparing the weight with my 300 mm telephoto for my 6x7 medium format camera.

Also the time for changing the large, heavy lenses - without missing a picture might also be an issue - and not only for shooting animals on the move? Even the photogenic clouds on the sky are always in motion and the time for changing the lens could miss the composed shot?

So there is another point of view - for us photographers on the go, not just the weight of cameras and optics?

The work convenience and right tool for the task might be the answer?

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Mar 21, 2016 17:03:29   #
jcboy3
 
wotsmith wrote:
You will not be happy with mirrorless for birds. The focus is slower, frame rate is slower, and for me the results don't even compare. I tried that route; I am 75, I try to exercise more, and just tote the stuff. I carry a Canon 1DX + 600mm F4 routinely all day with or without a big tripod. If I am shooting BIF, I don't use a tripod. Get a good strap, set the camera down on the ground when ever possible. I place it straight down resting on the lens hood when I don't have the tripod. Rest between shots and do your best. It is not like hiking with a full pack, my gear weighs about 22 lbs with the tripod. My gear gives me the photos that I want, so I suck it up and go. Am I tired at the end of the day, you bet. But I believe you either use it or lose it. So I keep trying.
You will not be happy with mirrorless for birds. ... (show quote)


While one might not be happy shooting BIF with mirror less, it would not be due to frame rate. My E-M1 will shoot at 10fps mechanical shutter and 11fps electronic shutter. But it will fill the buffer quickly, and I find it impossible to track when shooting at that rate due to viewfinder blackout. The buffer size can be mitigated by shooting JPG or 12-bit RAW. The viewfinder blackout can be mitigated by using a red dot sight (and Olympus released a very nice one recently; I like it a lot more than my other red dot sight for portability and ease of adjustment).

However, focus is much slower. If you pre-focus, and use a very steady tripod and smooth gimbal, then you can get some good shots.

The problem until now has been the lenses; but with the Olympus 300mm f4 and Panasonic 100-400, this should be improved. Although I think the Panasonic 100-400 is a tad too slow.

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Mar 21, 2016 18:34:23   #
jsmangis Loc: Peoria, IL
 
Old44 wrote:
Most of my time in photography has been spend pursuing sharpness and as a result I have had and sold a number of cameras and lenses over the years. Now however, I have the Nikon 610 and absolutely love the images. Couple it with my Nikon 300mm f/4 and I am in hog heaven sharpness. But at age 71 I find that weight is becoming a concern and the 610 and bird-seeking telles (also Sigma 150-600mm) are REALLY heavy. My question as I ponder the use of lighter mirrorless cameras is, am I foolish to think that, given my limited abilities that still achieves sharpness with the 610, that I can be happy with a smaller mirrorless camera?
Most of my time in photography has been spend purs... (show quote)


I have been shooting with my D610 for almost two years now, having upgraded from my D80. The lens I keep on my 610 most of the time is my AFS 24-70 f2.8 and, at 67, I notice the weight of the pair. Last month I rented a Df and found the image quality equal and sometimes even superior. The Df does not have as many GeeWhiz features as my D610, but I seldom use those anyway, and the Df is less than half the weight. Seeing that you already have a small fortune tied up in Nikkor glass, you might want to try this little beauty especially if you used to shoot film with a Nikon. It feels and handles much like my old FE-2.

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Mar 21, 2016 22:09:13   #
gsmith051 Loc: Fairfield Glade, TN
 
I'm 84 and just got back from a trip to Peru. Carried a Canon 6D camera with EF 24-105 F4, 16-35 F2.8, and 50mm F1.8. Used the EF 24-105 for 99% of the shots. So next trip will only include the 24-105 lens and possibly the 50mm 1.8 for inside shots. I recently looked at the Sigma 150-600 lens but decided it was just too much weight. Good luck. George

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Mar 22, 2016 01:14:27   #
alycat Loc: Canton OH
 
Old44 wrote:
Most of my time in photography has been spend pursuing sharpness and as a result I have had and sold a number of cameras and lenses over the years. Now however, I have the Nikon 610 and absolutely love the images. Couple it with my Nikon 300mm f/4 and I am in hog heaven sharpness. But at age 71 I find that weight is becoming a concern and the 610 and bird-seeking telles (also Sigma 150-600mm) are REALLY heavy. My question as I ponder the use of lighter mirrorless cameras is, am I foolish to think that, given my limited abilities that still achieves sharpness with the 610, that I can be happy with a smaller mirrorless camera?
Most of my time in photography has been spend purs... (show quote)



i'm 80 and can still handle a Sony A330 and a Tamron 50 - 300, the problem I can't walk long distances. The quest for sharpness seems to me to be worried about too much. Most gear today will deliver enough sharpness, and if not enough, use photoshop to tweek it.

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Mar 22, 2016 02:08:28   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Yep, man up. Nobody every said photography presents an easy experience, either physically or mentally.

This subject reminds me of the comment Ansel Adams wrote in his later years. He said he still enjoyed pushing the shutter button.
jimmya wrote:
I'm sorry you're having this issue. I'm nearly 73 and find no weight problems with my Canon outfit.

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Mar 22, 2016 02:17:31   #
Macronaut Loc: Redondo Beach,Ca.
 
anotherview wrote:
Yep, man up. Nobody every said photography presents an easy experience, either physically or mentally.
Too bad it isn't as simple as that for some of us. I know of more than a few 80+ year olds that are far more capable than myself at 56 with my physical limitations and pain.

I've been "manning up" and "sucking it up" for quite some time now but, that only goes so far.

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Mar 22, 2016 02:19:21   #
Jer Loc: Mesa, Arizona
 
Can we get back to the original question instead of pointing out everybody's physical differences?

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Mar 22, 2016 02:48:32   #
Macronaut Loc: Redondo Beach,Ca.
 
Jer wrote:
Can we get back to the original question instead of pointing out everybody's physical differences?
These differences are exactly why there are more than one suggestion on how to deal with what the OP asked about. A few here (my self included) think the OP should find a way to keep using what he worked some hard to obtain. Finding a way to do that requires suggestions from various differences that we have and hopefully we will touch on something the OP can tailor to his needs or desire to keep using what he has.

Same with all the differences of what other, light weight equipment he may consider if he can not use what he has.

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Mar 22, 2016 20:00:42   #
cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast
 
I never noticed how heavy my Nikon D800e rig was until you guys started talking about it! Now, I use my Canon SX-50 more!

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Mar 23, 2016 02:07:38   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Fills the buffer quickly? Not my em-1. Sorry, can you explain how fast?

jcboy3 wrote:
While one might not be happy shooting BIF with mirror less, it would not be due to frame rate. My E-M1 will shoot at 10fps mechanical shutter and 11fps electronic shutter. But it will fill the buffer quickly, and I find it impossible to track when shooting at that rate due to viewfinder blackout. The buffer size can be mitigated by shooting JPG or 12-bit RAW. The viewfinder blackout can be mitigated by using a red dot sight (and Olympus released a very nice one recently; I like it a lot more than my other red dot sight for portability and ease of adjustment).

However, focus is much slower. If you pre-focus, and use a very steady tripod and smooth gimbal, then you can get some good shots.

The problem until now has been the lenses; but with the Olympus 300mm f4 and Panasonic 100-400, this should be improved. Although I think the Panasonic 100-400 is a tad too slow.
While one might not be happy shooting BIF with mir... (show quote)

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Mar 23, 2016 15:44:57   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
Not having to carry a heavy rig is a big plus for birding, especially as we get older (I'm 69). The solution I came up with is using the Nikon 1 J1 CX sensor camera (sometimes called a one inch sensor) with the Nikkor FT-1 f-mount autofocus adapter and the Nikkor AFS 55-300mm VR zoom lens to give a rig that weighs a little over two pounds. It seems to me using your AFS 300mm f4 with this camera and adapter would give you the sharpness you desire and the low weight. I purchased the used 10MP J1 on ebay for $80, and the FT-1 adapter new on Amazon for $250. It only does center point autofocus but is as fast in focusing the lens as my D7000. The difference is that with the 2.7 crop factor, the CX sensor gives an equivalent focal length of 810mm with the 300mm lens. For flash I can use the internal flash or a Nikon SB26 speedlight as an optical slave, attached to a bracket connected to the tripod bracket at the bottom of the FT-1. Anpther good feature of the J1 for birding is a rapid fire of multiple shots. Great for the "spray and pray" approach. And with the 810mm equivalent focal length I get better bird shots than I can with the same lens and my D7000, which only gives an equivalent focal length of 450mm with the 300mm lens.

Old44 wrote:
Most of my time in photography has been spend pursuing sharpness and as a result I have had and sold a number of cameras and lenses over the years. Now however, I have the Nikon 610 and absolutely love the images. Couple it with my Nikon 300mm f/4 and I am in hog heaven sharpness. But at age 71 I find that weight is becoming a concern and the 610 and bird-seeking telles (also Sigma 150-600mm) are REALLY heavy. My question as I ponder the use of lighter mirrorless cameras is, am I foolish to think that, given my limited abilities that still achieves sharpness with the 610, that I can be happy with a smaller mirrorless camera?
Most of my time in photography has been spend purs... (show quote)


(Download)

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Mar 23, 2016 20:42:45   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
jackpi wrote:
Check out Thomas Stirr's web site.
http://tomstirrphotography.com/why-i-love-shooting-with-nikon-1#more-4673
He shot with the big Nikon cameras and gradually switched to a Nikon 1 system. A Nikon 1 V2, V3, or J5 with a 70-300mm lens (2.7 crop factor gives max equivalent fov of 810mm on a 35mm sensor) weighs less than 2 lb. As you will see from the many posts on his web site, image quality is high and there are many other advantages to this system, such as increased depth of field and decreased sensitivity to motion, relative to heaver cameras with larger sensors.
Check out Thomas Stirr's web site. br url http://... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup:

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