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Christopher Colunbus Missed America
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Mar 16, 2016 08:43:04   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
So, the whole point of this discussion is what, exactly?

Just about everyone already knows that the Vikings were here first, that the Americas were named after Vespucci, and that Columbus didn't reach the mainland. So what? What is, is. We aren't going to change history, and we aren't going to rename anything.

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Mar 16, 2016 08:58:20   #
SBW
 
jaymatt wrote:
So, the whole point of this discussion is what, exactly?

Just about everyone already knows that the Vikings were here first, that the Americas were named after Vespucci, and that Columbus didn't reach the mainland. So what? What is, is. We aren't going to change history, and we aren't going to rename anything.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Glad someone asked!

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Mar 16, 2016 08:59:04   #
silver-rail Loc: harrisburg, pa
 
thanks for the history lesson. always happy to learn something.

the term America takes in north and south America so by
that Columbus did arrive in the America's not the first but he did arrive in the america's

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Mar 16, 2016 08:59:22   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Keldon wrote:
On this day in 1493 Chris and his crew returned to Spain after his first voyage to the Western Hemisphere.
He returned a further three times but never once came within sight of what later became America.
So why is he celebrated and revered as being the discoverer of America????

Partly ignorance. Partly pride. Partly the need for holiday - and big sales. Looking at his record of treatment of the people who were living there, it's hard to believe he's so well respected and honored. The Vikings were here first, but they didn't publicize the fact.

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Mar 16, 2016 09:43:24   #
Bayertake2 Loc: Alton, Illinois
 
Oh, I thought St. Patrick discovered North America … He was a Viking and we celebrate his day the 17th of march … :)

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Mar 16, 2016 10:27:57   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
stonecherub wrote:
What Columbus discovered was an attractor. Something, theretofore unknown, was west of Spain within a few weeks voyage. Something that might be exploited for gold or slaves. And attract, it did!

Within 15 years Martin Waldseemuller was able to print a map of the world that included two continents in the west. He was very taken by the stories of a con man named Amerigo Vespucci, so much so that he labeled the southern one AMERICA. The important thing about his map (1507) that had a lot marked "Terra Incognita," was establishing the idea of continents surrounded by water.

Around 1540, two Spaniards independently sailed up the west coast of the new continent and into the Sea of Cortez (Gulf of California). Four years later, Battista Agnese made a world map including their stories that looks very familiar to us. The track is Magellan and the red colored bay on the west coast of New Spain is the Gulf. The water was red from Colorado Plateau mud carried down the river. What we know as "The Red Sea" east of Africa is also colored red.

Waldseemuller's North America is not at all like Agnese's. The gulf and peninsula appeared on many subsequent maps, eventually acquiring the name "California." In 1620, California was depicted as an island and shown as such on many maps up into the 20th century. No anglo walked across the Southern Arizona-California desert until after 1700 by which time Fr Eusebio Francisco Kino, SJ, had dispelled the Island idea.

Who knew what in the first half of the second millennium when everything moved slower than 3 mph? The Norse settled Vinland but never saw the need to tell anybody. By 1500, ships were improving, men were exploring, and maps began to proliferate. Alarcon's and Ulloa's descriptions of the Gulf of California made it to Agnese in less than 4 years.

The magic, here, is that most of these rare old maps are available on the web.
What Columbus discovered was an attractor. Somethi... (show quote)


Thank you for the short, very informative history lesson. I didn't know some of that stuff before. And yes, the Vikings were probably the first here, but Columbus was definitely not. And the native Americans, as they were later referred to, were called Indians because Columbus wrongly assumed that the natives he encountered when he landed were natives of India. Again, thanks.

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Mar 16, 2016 10:29:17   #
big-guy Loc: Peterborough Ontario Canada
 
It occurs to me that on this day in 1493 there was no such place as America, North or South. Some time later, it was named America and then also divided into a north and south designation. The continent(s), islands and all, were considered part of the "New World", later to be called America and indeed was discovered by Columbus.

There are many US citizens (and others around the world) that consider everything inside the US border to be America and those inside are proud to be an American. Of course that's much easier to say than being a United Statesian.

Keldon wrote:
On this day in 1493 Chris and his crew returned to Spain after his first voyage to the Western Hemisphere.
He returned a further three times but never once came within sight of what later became America.
So why is he celebrated and revered as being the discoverer of America????

Reply
 
 
Mar 16, 2016 10:30:19   #
hamtrack Loc: Omaha NE
 
Because Queen Isabella liked Italians, and she may have liked Columbus just a little bit too much!
Keldon wrote:
On this day in 1493 Chris and his crew returned to Spain after his first voyage to the Western Hemisphere.
He returned a further three times but never once came within sight of what later became America.
So why is he celebrated and revered as being the discoverer of America????

Reply
Mar 16, 2016 10:54:44   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
foodie65 wrote:
Obama's fault??


No. Bush's fault

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Mar 16, 2016 10:54:55   #
Cape Codder Loc: Cape Cod
 
rmalarz, you mentioned St. Brendan before I got onto this discussion. I was going to mention him, but you got to it first! Thanks for helping others for not forgetting the Irish!

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Mar 16, 2016 11:23:50   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
Into this discussion mix it is worth mentioning Gavin Menzies book "1421" that chrinicles the Chinese fleets voyages across the globe. The fleet under Zhou Wen explored eastern coast, around Greenland to North pole and back to Cape Verde. The fleet of Hong Bao explored the west coast. His next book "1434" told of Chinese fleet sailing to the Mediterranean namely Italy. It was then that the Chinese told of the lands across the western seas

About Lief Ericcsen, it is said he never got further west than Novia Scotia or thereabouts. The stories about far western Norse visits in Minnesota have been thoroughly debunked, although the stories make for local fun with tourists to Alexandria, MN

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Mar 16, 2016 11:27:09   #
Cape Codder Loc: Cape Cod
 
John F, I shall have to look up these interesting books. Thanks!

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Mar 16, 2016 11:30:29   #
Duggy
 
To be accurate which one of you was there?

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Mar 16, 2016 11:48:56   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Partly ignorance. Partly pride. Partly the need for holiday - and big sales. Looking at his record of treatment of the people who were living there, it's hard to believe he's so well respected and honored. The Vikings were here first, but they didn't publicize the fact.


Native Americans were here 15,000 years before. The whole idea of "discovery" is kinda silly.

Travel the US or Central and South America and see some of the ruins left by the true Americans 1,000 years before any of the invaders from the east.

And then there were the visits from the west.

http://www.explorers-journal.com/did-the-chinese-discover-america-first/

So you can see the previous discussion is from a strong myopic cultural bias. It might be better thought of as "When did Europeans begin to lose their myopic world view?"

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Mar 16, 2016 13:06:07   #
crissx09 Loc: FL-USA
 
Correction hamtrack: C.Columbus was not Italian. He was from Genoa that at the time was independent from Italy.

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