Roger Hicks Loc: Aquitaine

Dear Eric,

Ah, but those were CREATED dinosaur farts, not EVOLUTIONARY dinosaur farts.

As Sir Terry Pratchett pointed out, God created fossils, but they are a joke nobody has got yet...

Cheers,

R.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

I have the 11 volume set of Durant sitting on the shelf. No room for the 20 volumes of the OED! Besides, it's so simple to cut and paste from the soft version!

Speaking of cutting and pasting (how about THAT for a sudden lane change!), we - the wife, her sister, the brother-in-law and I) were in Washington D.C. last week where the cut and pasted Jeffersonian bible is on display. The biggest miracle we could see was... how did he do it without Scotch tape?!?

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

AHHH! That explains so much!

"And on the sixth day, around tea time, god created farts. And god smelled the farts and said they were good."

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

Let me provide the 3rd definition of "denier" from the OED. The first definition is the one about one who denies. As you can see, using denier as a unit of measurement for fabrics is relatively modern and first found in print in 1839 while the definition of one who denies dates back to c. 1400.

denier3

(dɪˈnɪə(r), ‖dənje)

Forms: 5–7 denere, 6 Sc. deneir, 6–7 deneere, 7 deneer, -eare, -ire, -iere, dinneere, 6– denier. See also denar.

[a. OF. dener, later denier (= Pr. dener, denier, dinier, Cat. diner, Sp. dinero, Pg. dinheiro, It. denaro, danaro):—L. dēnārium: see denarius. The form deneer(e (cf. musketeer, etc.) prevailed about 1600.]

1.1 A French coin, the twelfth of the sou; originally, like the Roman denarius and English penny, of silver; but from 16th c. a small copper coin. Hence (esp. in negative phrases) used as the type of a very small sum. Obs. or arch.
   Originally, from reign of Charlemagne till 12th c., a silver coin of about 22 Troy grains or rather less than a pennyweight; from the 13th c. to the reign of Chas. IX (d. 1574), usually of billon or base silver (denier tournois), and weighing at different times from 10 to 14 gr.; under Henry III (1574–89) it became a copper coin of about 22 gr. (less than 2/3 of the current bronze farthing), and so continued till the death of Louis XIV. (B. V. Head.)

   c 1425 Wyntoun Cron. vi. v. 60 To þe kyrk ilka yhere Of Rome he heycht a denere To pay (a penny þat is to say).    1580 H. Gifford Gilloflowers (1875) 132 And in his purse, to serue his neede, Not one deneere he had.    1594 Shakes. Rich. III, i. ii. 252 My Dukedome to a Beggerly denier! I do mistake my person all this while.    1607 T. Walkington Opt. Glass 45 Then liue in wealth and giue not a dinneere.    1611 Cotgr., Denier a penny, a deneere; a small copper coin valued at the tenth part of an English pennie; also, a pennie-weight, or 24 grains.    a 1670 Hacket Abp. Williams i. (1692) 104 The Lord Treasurer, I know well, had‥not drawn a denier out of the King's purse.    1706 Phillips (ed. Kersey), Denier, a French Brass-Coin, worth three Tenths of an English Farthing, of which Twelve make a Sols. Also a Penny-weight in Silver; thus an Ounce of Silver‥is of 24 Deniers.    1873 Hale In His Name vi. 55 A slave whom I have bought with my deniers.    1876 Browning Pacchiarotto 79 Let the blind mole mine Digging out deniers!

†2.2 Used to translate Lat. dēnārius: see denarius 1. Obs.

   1598 R. Grenewey Tacitus' Ann. i. v. (1622) 9 The Pretorian bands, which receiued two deniers a day.    1606 Holland Sueton. 66 Gallus his scribe, had receiued 500 deniers.

†3.3 A pennyweight; = denarius 3. Obs.

   1601 Holland Pliny II. 79 Take of wild running Thyme the weight of two deniers‥Ervil floure twelue deniers or drams.    a 1656 Ussher Ann. (1658) 229 Counting here, as his manner everywhere is, a deneere, for a drachma.    1706 [see sense 1 above].

4.4 A unit of weight used to estimate the fineness of silk, rayon, or nylon yarn.
   The unit is based on a length of 450 metres of yarn weighing 0·05 gramme.

   1839 Ure Dict. Arts 1105 The first of these raw silks will have a titre of 20 to 24 deniers.    1858 Simmonds Dict. Trade, Denier,‥in Italy, a small weight equal to about a grain, by which silk is weighed.    1887 Colonial & Indian Exhib., Rep. Col. Sect. 341 The general sizes [of silk] seem to be 16 to 20 deniers, but it will range from about 10 to 24 deniers, single thread.    1927 T. Woodhouse Artifical Silk 78 Finally the hanks are weighed‥to ascertain the denier count.    1952 Sunday Times 15 June 8/5 Denier is the thickness of the yarn: the lower the denier number, the finer the stocking.    1957 Times 30 Sept. 11/3 The makers claim that these 15-denier ‘Carefree’ nylons will outlast several ordinary pairs.    1960 Textile Terms & Defs. (ed. 4) 53 Denier, the weight in grammes of 9,000 metres of a filament or yarn. The denier system is used as the standard count for filament silk as well as for rayon, cellulose acetate, nylon and other man-made fibres.

ole sarg Loc: south florida

I am a Jew and Jews do not believe the Torah is the literal word of God. Jews recognize Torah as a redacted book that is inspired.

We do not partake in the Christian mythology although Christians like to say we do? That Judeo-Christian thing is Christian not Jewish.

Mortimer Adler the great Catholic historian was Jewish. He was asked why he never converted. To which he replied (and I paraphrase): To be a Catholic takes faith.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

The majority of Christians also understand the bible is not a science book. It seems only to be an odd fringe group who so profess to a 10,000 year old earth. At least the old earth creationists follow along with where science leads and accept a 14 billion year old universe, a 4.3 billion year old planet and the evolution of life on the planet.

God, to them, created the laws of nature and allowed those laws to perform the heavy lifting. It is a very defensible position, unlike young earth creationism. These old earth creationists are not hot to prove the Noachian Flood (never happened), the Exodus (no evidence it ever happened), the walls of Jericho tumbling down during the conquest of Canaan (never happened).

Only that strange breed of believers in biblical inerrancy feel it necessary that science supports their claims. A claim the bible never makes about itself. No where in the bible will you find a claim that every word in the bible is true.

One of the strangest word usages in Genesis is repeated several times during the creation: "And God saw that it was good."

Huh?

Did god think it would be bad? Good is a value judgement. Against what was he comparing his work so that it was possible to proclaim it good? Was some other god creating another universe and they were competing? Or, as the natural law people will tell you, there is a natural law that transcends god and provided the necessary referential point against which god measured his work.

Or it's all a myth from mankind's youth.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chance.

singleviking Loc: Lake Sebu Eco Park, Philippines

To NGC1514,
You really need to get more informed. You should subscribe the new cable channels if their available in your local Bible Belt area. Here's a listing:

NETWORK Channel Name

WCRP The Revisionist History Channel

WGOD The NEW Creationist Channel

WPLN The Palin History Channel

WGAY The Bachman Health Channel

Ask your cable provider to supply these truthful and informative networks to your local service.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

ngc1514
Again we come back to the meaning of life equaling 42. Indeed the proof of the age of the earth is that it took a long time to compute 42 and even longer to recall what the question was to begin with!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120508094358.htm The article ties in the upsurge of the population of man based on the Ice Age ending could it be that the Ice Age ended because of mans flatulences and hot air. No mention was made of woman... suggesting that the men found other men to be fond of and that the accelerated slippage of the glaciers was a result of Onanism. And god said it was good. To understand how our Galaxy works I suggest to all they abandon the UHH forum and leave the earth before it is to late.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8z4JAenBPo

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

At last! Someone has finally shown me the error of my ways. I turned the television off about 25 years ago and rarely turn it back on. If I get 5 hours of viewing in a year, that would be excessive. But if the urge takes over, I'll make sure we get those channels. Is David Irving hosting a Holocaust denial show in WCRP?

So many books and so little time.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

You make it all so clear! But thanks for the link to the ScienceDaily post. It was interesting.

Unfortunately, the HHGTTG show was never as good as the books. But isn't that always the case? Adams definitely had a way with words:

That last sentence cracks me up every time I read it. Of course, as a further indication of my mental problems, I still laugh when Patsy and King Arthur appear over the hilltop with Patsy clacking coconuts together.

Or when Miranda Richardson, as Queen Elizabeth I, tells Edmund Blackadder after he presents her with a boomerang and says,"Ah yes, Ma'am, but it is a very special stick. Because when you throw it away, it comes back!"

The Queen replies, "Well, that's no good, is it; because when *I* throw things away, I don't *want* them to come back!!"

There is no comedy like British comedy.

davejann Loc: Portland Oregon

the Noachian Flood (never happened)

ngc actually there was a real event that the myth is probably based on and also explains (to me) why Mt. Ararat is located in norther Turkey and not closer to Palestine.

As the last Ice Age ended and sea levels began to rise the Med, being connected to the oceans, rose as well. The Black Sea at that time was a fresh water lake and was significantly lower. At some point, I am not sure exactly when but about 10,000 years ago give or take a few, the water poured over the Bosporus creating one of the most spectacular waterfalls that ever existed and rapid raising the level of the Black Sea. Recent research has shown with remote cameras that there were settlements along the shores of the original sea that were inundated rapidly. Not sure if there were 30 days and 40 night of rain, however :roll: It also explains the myth of Gilgamesh. Obviously, not the whole world, but certainly the world of those bewildered, primitive villagers.

ole sarg Loc: south florida

Interesting how ancient people explained or accounted for a flood. Not knowing about the melting ice obviously a God did something.

But how did the flood effect or influence the location of Mt. Ararat? Did it too float like the ark?

davejann Loc: Portland Oregon

But how did the flood effect or influence the location of Mt. Ararat? Did it too float like the ark?

Sarg, As a lad even though I was skeptical about the story, I couldn't understand why the mountain had been placed in a part of the world almost unknown to the writers of the myth. But Ararat is pretty close to the Black Sea and was probably incorporated into the story by refugees. Only a guess but possible I think.

D

singleviking Loc: Lake Sebu Eco Park, Philippines

Actually guys, Mt Arrarat is located in a very sciesmicly active area between the Asian and African plates. This area could (and I repeat "COULD") have been lower in elevation when the flood took place and risen to new hights through tectonic mechanisms since the flood. I always wondered why the location of the ARC was at so high up on the mountain, but this could explain that. However, that would mean the flood took place long before when the bible says it happened since tectonic shifts of this magnitude take extrordinary amounts of time.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

There is little doubt that local floods became part of legends. If you go back as far as I do in age, I remember watching Saturday morning cartoons that had the Johnstown flood as part of the plot line. Since everything hits Youtube eventually, you can see one starring Mighty Mouse and the Johnstown Flood here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezyyBZ1bfbE

This flood took place in 1889, but was part of children's entertainment more than 50 years later when the Mighty Mouse cartoon was made in the 40s.

The fact that most of the ancient civilizations formed on the banks of rivers and rivers flood offers an easy basis for flood myths, but none of them come close to filling the Genesis tale of the Noachian flood. You and I and most reasonable and rational people understand this. Unfortunately, the biblical inerrantists will insist some huge amount of water came from nowhere, covered the highest mountains in the world and then, just as magically disappeared. The real magic is there is absolutely no geological evidence for such an event. God musta cleaned up his mess.

The waterfall I would have liked to see was the one that filled the entire Mediterranean Basin in only a couple of years. Known as the Zanclean Deluge, the Atlantic poured over the Straits of Gibraltar around 5 million years ago. Too far back to have been seen by our early Hominid ancestors, but it musta been something to watch!